Kyle Walker-Peters

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Because. That would be noticeable unlike 1-2kgs
Not as much as 10-15 kg, sure, but it is actually noticeable on a guy that weighs 65 kg. Adding 2-3 kg of muscle on a guy that size would be noticeable visually and physically. I'm not speaking theoretically here, that's actual experience in both my training and working with other athletes. Don't say that KWP adding 10-15 kg would be a good thing because 'it's noticeable'. It absolutely wouldn't.
 
Positioning will help him overcome his lighter upper body. Lahm was not a beefy brute, but made one hell of a RB. KWP needs minutes to fine-tune his game and I hope he gets the last 5 games for SH.
 
Because. That would be noticeable unlike 1-2kgs
Just clear things up here.

I suggested he needs to strengthen up a little on his upper body. Doesn't mean he has to look like Aurier, who looks like a body builder. Just a few kg so that he doesn't get shrugged off the ball as easily.

Remember there is also a trade off with bulking up and speed. Kyle isn't actually that quick, so bulking him up too much will actually slow him more. For a full back who needs to be quick on the turn that little bit of acceleration is crucial.
 
Not as much as 10-15 kg, sure, but it is actually noticeable on a guy that weighs 65 kg. Adding 2-3 kg of muscle on a guy that size would be noticeable visually and physically. I'm not speaking theoretically here, that's actual experience in both my training and working with other athletes. Don't say that KWP adding 10-15 kg would be a good thing because 'it's noticeable'. It absolutely wouldn't.
So if he gained 15kg we wouldn't be able to see that on his tiny frame? Because based on my experience with athletes you would
Also what the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you so defensive? Is your life really that shit that you have to continue to go back and forth and defend something that clearly doesn't mean anything to me
 
Just clear things up here.

I suggested he needs to strengthen up a little on his upper body. Doesn't mean he has to look like Aurier, who looks like a body builder. Just a few kg so that he doesn't get shrugged off the ball as easily.

Remember there is also a trade off with bulking up and speed. Kyle isn't actually that quick, so bulking him up too much will actually slow him more. For a full back who needs to be quick on the turn that little bit of acceleration is crucial.
That's cleared up with me now, you said bulk, now you change and give your definition, it's all good
 
So if he gained 15kg we wouldn't be able to see that on his tiny frame? Because based on my experience with athletes you would
Also what the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you so defensive? Is your life really that shit that you have to continue to go back and forth and defend something that clearly doesn't mean anything to me
:mourwhat:

What?

I said gaining 2-3 kg is noticeable, but not as blatantly obvious as 15 kg.
There's nothing wrong with me - this is a discussion board so I'm trying to discuss with you why adding 10-15 kg would be a bad idea and unnecessary for KWP. You're the one being defensive after I challenged your idea.

That's cleared up with me now, you said bulk, now you change and give your definition, it's all good
Because when you're working on improving strength, usually that comes with increased muscle mass (i.e., bulk). Increased mass doesn't always mean looking like a brick shithouse.
 
Just off the top of my head:

Nabil Bentaleb 19yrs old
Harry Kane 20yrs old
Harry Winks 20yrs old
Ryan Mason 23Yrs old
Dele Alli 19yrs old

Don't care about Soton - I support and follow Spurs.

Winks I mentioned.
Bentaleb - had 20 games under his belt before Poch arrived; was shafted after 1,5 seasons
Mason - 23... youngster? you kiddin' me? but okay, he had barely played for us before, so I'll give you Mason (at least academy product)
Kane - had 26 games played for Spurs, not with the extremest strech of mind was is Poch who promoted him
Alli - he was purchased from MK Dons. Yea, he gave him playing time, I agree.

So with some compromize I could give you - Winks, Mason and Alli.
Out of whom Winks and Mason were promoted from club's youth setup.

Hardly a good return for 5,5 years at the club.
 
Don't care about Soton - I support and follow Spurs.

Winks I mentioned.
Bentaleb - had 20 games under his belt before Poch arrived; was shafted after 1,5 seasons
Mason - 23... youngster? you kiddin' me? but okay, he had barely played for us before, so I'll give you Mason (at least academy product)
Kane - had 26 games played for Spurs, not with the extremest strech of mind was is Poch who promoted him
Alli - he was purchased from MK Dons. Yea, he gave him playing time, I agree.

So with some compromize I could give you - Winks, Mason and Alli.
Out of whom Winks and Mason were promoted from club's youth setup.

Hardly a good return for 5,5 years at the club.

Agree on Kane. If anything it was the fans who pressured Pochettino into starting him.

Don’t agree on Bentaleb being shafted. By all accounts he was an arrogant piece of shit who thought he was something other than a distinctly average player.
 
Agree on Kane. If anything it was the fans who pressured Pochettino into starting him.

Don’t agree on Bentaleb being shafted. By all accounts he was an arrogant piece of shit who thought he was something other than a distinctly average player.

Ah, sorry, poor choice of words.
He was "let go" then.

I did not mean that Poch screwed him over. Rather that he was used as last resort option for a while and then moved on.
 
Don't care about Soton - I support and follow Spurs.

Winks I mentioned.
Bentaleb - had 20 games under his belt before Poch arrived; was shafted after 1,5 seasons
Mason - 23... youngster? you kiddin' me? but okay, he had barely played for us before, so I'll give you Mason (at least academy product)
Kane - had 26 games played for Spurs, not with the extremest strech of mind was is Poch who promoted him
Alli - he was purchased from MK Dons. Yea, he gave him playing time, I agree.

So with some compromize I could give you - Winks, Mason and Alli.
Out of whom Winks and Mason were promoted from club's youth setup.

Hardly a good return for 5,5 years at the club.
You are banging on about "promoted from youth set-up". Why?

I'm talking about playing young players, irrespective on whether they came through our academy or were purchased or even played by a previous manager!!

The relevance of doing this supports the notion that he plays "young players", his record speaks for itself. If he thinks a young player has the capacity to play, then his record suggests that more than most managers he will trust that young player by giving them games (there are many more to add to that list, I only selected players that received a substantial amount of games over a sustained period of time).

23 is still young and happens to be the average age that players make their breakthroughs into Snr football, so to even question Mason is odd. I bring this up as it's highlighting that at the age of 23 (as of only a couple of months ago) KWP is perhaps about to breakthrough because like the majority of lads his age he's developed to a level where that is physically and mentally possible to do so.
 
You are banging on about "promoted from youth set-up". Why?

I'm talking about playing young players, irrespective on whether they came through our academy or were purchased or even played by a previous manager!!

The relevance of doing this supports the notion that he plays "young players", his record speaks for itself. If he thinks a young player has the capacity to play, then his record suggests that more than most managers he will trust that young player by giving them games (there are many more to add to that list, I only selected players that received a substantial amount of games over a sustained period of time).

23 is still young and happens to be the average age that players make their breakthroughs into Snr football, so to even question Mason is odd. I bring this up as it's highlighting that at the age of 23 (as of only a couple of months ago) KWP is perhaps about to breakthrough because like the majority of lads his age he's developed to a level where that is physically and mentally possible to do so.

Why? Well because it is kind of different either you will take a kid, put your arm around him, take him to senior side, give playing time and help him to develop into starter (my fav example is Thomas Müller who was promoted from essentially 1st game of van Gaal reign, and has gone from heights to heights ever since) and a star....

OR you will "play" let's say Mbappe, who might have been 19 when he joined PSG (so by "playing young" criteria, any manager who plays this 200 mil superstar is visionary and "trusting youth"). I mean you have to be extremely stupid not to do it... Of course Mbappe is an extreme example with his profile / skills / price. Most are more tricky.

OR it is 3rd kind of situation, where you come to club, someone else has taken leap of faith already, player had already proven that he is able to play on this level, and THEN when he has fought himself a place in squad you just continue playing him (say Kane's and Bentaleb's position).

It is extremely obvious to me that the 1st option of those 3 is most complicated and valuable. 2nd - everyone can do. 3rd is a lot-lot easier than 1st.

P.S - well, yea, years ago Poch really used to play youngsters. I agree with you. But this is distant memory. Look at the guy's last seasons and what is the situation with say KWP, Parrott and Skipp. I'd say it was borderline criminal mismanagement of young talent just having them rot on the bench. But we'll see.
Anyways, facts don't lie and when Poch left the helm, we were one of the oldest sides in EPL...
 
Why? Well because it is kind of different either you will take a kid, put your arm around him, take him to senior side, give playing time and help him to develop into starter (my fav example is Thomas Müller who was promoted from essentially 1st game of van Gaal reign, and has gone from heights to heights ever since) and a star....

OR you will "play" let's say Mbappe, who might have been 19 when he joined PSG (so by "playing young" criteria, any manager who plays this 200 mil superstar is visionary and "trusting youth"). I mean you have to be extremely stupid not to do it... Of course Mbappe is an extreme example with his profile / skills / price. Most are more tricky.

OR it is 3rd kind of situation, where you come to club, someone else has taken leap of faith already, player had already proven that he is able to play on this level, and THEN when he has fought himself a place in squad you just continue playing him (say Kane's and Bentaleb's position).

It is extremely obvious to me that the 1st option of those 3 is most complicated and valuable. 2nd - everyone can do. 3rd is a lot-lot easier than 1st.

P.S - well, yea, years ago Poch really used to play youngsters. I agree with you. But this is distant memory. Look at the guy's last seasons and what is the situation with say KWP, Parrott and Skipp. I'd say it was borderline criminal mismanagement of young talent just having them rot on the bench. But we'll see.
Anyways, facts don't lie and when Poch left the helm, we were one of the oldest sides in EPL...
This entire debate is about if a player is READY to play or not. KWP was given mins under Poch, he even played well in those mins given to him, this includes a big game and a big error when he played in CL away at Camp Nou, when following the big error he played himself back into the game really well. But he wasn't felt READY to be given more games and mins. None of us bar those around the player and club know what he was required to work on in order to be "ready", but with his development plan in place, he and the coaching staff would have been working hard on the areas specified.

He's now may be ready to breakthrough, bang on the schedule the average age young players make their snr breakthroughs.
 
This entire debate is about if a player is READY to play or not. KWP was given mins under Poch, he even played well in those mins given to him, this includes a big game and a big error when he played in CL away at Camp Nou, when following the big error he played himself back into the game really well. But he wasn't felt READY to be given more games and mins. None of us bar those around the player and club know what he was required to work on in order to be "ready", but with his development plan in place, he and the coaching staff would have been working hard on the areas specified.

He's now may be ready to breakthrough, bang on the schedule the average age young players make their snr breakthroughs.

Hahahhaahahha :D
He played 1482 minutes under Poch.

Do I understand correctly - you say that having played roughly 16 full games at senior level by becoming 23 is typical schedule for becoming top player?!?!
Or are you even saying that it is something that helps, rather than hinders one ability and developement?
 
Hahahhaahahha :D
He played 1482 minutes under Poch.

Do I understand correctly - you say that having played roughly 16 full games at senior level by becoming 23 is typical schedule for becoming top player?!?!
Or are you even saying that it is something that helps, rather than hinders one ability and developement?
NO! Suggest you re-read my posts in this thread since KWP's selection for Southampton. You appear to have totally misunderstood.

My entire position on KWP is that he might now be ready and that that's down to his development at Hotspur Way rather than in spite of it. I disagree with the notion that he's "wasted his time at Spurs". He didn't play because he was deemed not ready. But remained at Hotspur Way and developed to a point where he's showing signs that he might be ready at the age of 23.

23 is the average age that a player establishes their breakthrough into Snr football in the PL. I forget what the classification criteria used to determine what a "breakthrough' was in terms of games over what period but reading a report on youth development about 8 months ago or so a criterion was established but the only thing that stuck with me was the age given. So go ahead and disagree against the analysis written within the report all you like.
 
NO! Suggest you re-read my posts in this thread since KWP's selection for Southampton. You appear to have totally misunderstood.

My entire position on KWP is that he might now be ready and that that's down to his development at Hotspur Way rather than in spite of it. I disagree with the notion that he's "wasted his time at Spurs". He didn't play because he was deemed not ready. But remained at Hotspur Way and developed to a point where he's showing signs that he might be ready at the age of 23.

23 is the average age that a player establishes their breakthrough into Snr football in the PL. I forget what the classification criteria used to determine what a "breakthrough' was in terms of games over what period but reading a report on youth development about 8 months ago or so a criterion was established but the only thing that stuck with me was the age given. So go ahead and disagree against the analysis written within the report all you like.

Well I guess we will never know if it will be because or despite it.

Okay, this study I am not aware of. But 3 things from your summary-
- I don't think it looked into amount of senior football played, did it? One of my biggest quesitons is - is it realistic to get into decent (top 8 team starter level) for longer time if you are essentially total rookie. 23 might be average age but I assume many play some lower level football before?!?
- did it look/differentiate between how successful the players were? Because if ON AVERAGE age was 23 when players broke through then I would kind of assume, that those who made it earlier than average had careers on higher level?
- did it only look at constant EPL teams and their players? Cause otherwise we would factor in likes of Grant Holt who got promoted with Norwitch while being 30... so essentially his EPL breaktrhough came at 30...? which would massively distort the results.

Anyway- where my questions are coming from - I don't recall any player from Spurs who would have had played exclusively with children until age of 23 and then turned out to be good level players from recent past. Guess the discussed Mason was an example, but he never became "good level player" - he was gap filler until we cut him off and moved on.
 
Well I guess we will never know if it will be because or despite it.

Okay, this study I am not aware of. But 3 things from your summary-
- I don't think it looked into amount of senior football played, did it? One of my biggest quesitons is - is it realistic to get into decent (top 8 team starter level) for longer time if you are essentially total rookie. 23 might be average age but I assume many play some lower level football before?!?
- did it look/differentiate between how successful the players were? Because if ON AVERAGE age was 23 when players broke through then I would kind of assume, that those who made it earlier than average had careers on higher level?
- did it only look at constant EPL teams and their players? Cause otherwise we would factor in likes of Grant Holt who got promoted with Norwitch while being 30... so essentially his EPL breaktrhough came at 30...? which would massively distort the results.

Anyway- where my questions are coming from - I don't recall any player from Spurs who would have had played exclusively with children until age of 23 and then turned out to be good level players from recent past. Guess the discussed Mason was an example, but he never became "good level player" - he was gap filler until we cut him off and moved on.
Its focus was PL clubs and PL academies specifically Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) and academies that operated at (I think) at level 3 and above (I might have that wrong, but 80% sure it didn't include tier 4 for some reason). It made no reference as to the league position of the club. It was about the effectiveness of the EPPP. It absolutely measured how many mins a young player got but it did attempt to make a specific distinction between making an odd appearance here and there or coming on in injury time. Which is why they categorised what constituted a player "breaking out" which was set a specific criteria of mins played and over a period of time, there was also a metric to include player starts.

Yeah, it included ALL players: Players that breakthrough at phenomenal early age to those at the other end of the spectrum.

As for the KWP specific stuff, we do know if it's because of or in spite of. The proof is there if this turns into his breakout opportunity. ergo if he breaks out then it was as a direct result of his development at Hotspur Way as he's gone to Southampton as "ready'. And yeah a million and one nuances can be applied, Loftus-Cheek would be a player categorized as a player that has "broken-through" (I think) but has he really when he's now at Chelsea not getting played (I also think that a fair number of his appearances at Palace were from the bench) if that's a case is he really a trusted player??

But I was fed up with the constant narrative around KWP as a player that was "ready" and he was wasting his time at Spurs. If this turns out to be his breakthrough moments then his time at Spurs can't possibly be seen as wasting his time. It can only be seen as a successful period of his development.
 
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