Levy out?

[Nabil Bentaleb]

Poch as been absolutely shocking this year but the 2018 transfers windows is also playing a big part on this downfall. Levy is accountable for this shower of shit as well. And the one with most power to change it.

 

[Spaniel]

Your talking absolute fantasy thou? You are saying if we get new owners we will become competitive, how do you know that for a fact? For every Abramovich or Saudi Prince there is a Randy Learner or a Toni Fernandes. Even the Glaziers seem to be simply sucking the money out of United. Do you remember where we were when Levy Spurs? Do you give no acknowledgment to the training ground or Stadium? Do you think they were easy projects to under take? You may not care about some oppressive head of state or royal family but I fucking do. I’m not going to say your wrong but I simply don’t get that mind set.

Success at any costs? No thanks.

The stadium wasn't built for Spurs. You must know that. It's a "venue". No more, no less. A money making space to pimp out to anyone and anything. Whoever heard of a football stadium hosting something as boring and pointless as the NFL. Next it will be baseball, hockey, rock concerts etc etc. THAT'S why it was built. If Levy had any concern for our team, he would have spent a great deal more on players before even considering a new stadium. WHL might have been old but it was fine for the fans and the games. When will people understand he built the stadium to make larger profits. Not for the greater good of Spurs.
Another consideration that concerns me is that if ENIC own the stadium and decide to sell the team which is a distinct possibility, we lose our home. We'll end up having to pay huge amounts to play on what was supposed to be our new home. ENIC and Levy win whichever way you cut it. They're effectively slowly destroying the club piece by piece. And they don't give a shit! I hate Levy with a passion!

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Poch as been an absolutely shocking this year but the 2018 transfers windows is also playing a big part on this downfall. Levy is accountable for this shower of shit as well. And the one with most power to change it.

That was the same window where we were prepared to pay £25m for Grealish but not £20m for Lo Celso, which he cost Betis after a loan deal that very summer.

Yes Levy is responsible but so is our scouting department/ decision maker when it comes to why we said no back then only to lump near on £55m-£60m not even 12 months later. If we had done so maybe we would have had the necessary funds to get one or two more in this summer as well.

 

[Spaniel]

Um I have my own views, I support Levy and want Poch given a little more time, or at least until his position is untenable. I’m not a sheep mate, I don’t have to follow another persons view to have my own.

You may not be a sheep mate but you're definitely a donkey.....

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

That was the same window where we were prepared to pay £25m for Grealish but not £20m for Lo Celso, which he cost Betis after a loan deal that very summer.

Yes Levy is responsible but so is our scouting department/ decision maker when it comes to why we said no back then only to lump near on £55m-£60m not even 12 months later. If we had done so maybe we would have had the necessary funds to get one or two more in this summer as well.

Honest question, do we have a scout department? I don’t think so. I think we buy players Poch and his staff likes and that’s it. We are shocking. The great team we had in 2017 was almost made all of players brought in AVB years or the academy.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Honest question, do we have a scout department? I don’t think so. I think we buy players Poch and his staff likes and that’s it. We are shocking. The great team we had in 2017 was almost made all of players brought in AVB years or the academy.

I agree. I remember reading something about Poch praising Steve Hitchen for recommending Lucas Moura to him. The praise itself almost felt like Lucas wasn't Poch signing and low and behold ever since then Lucas is being treated like he wasn't a Poch signing.

I think we have very flawed ways, I think we need a little more quality behind the scenes as too many players have slipped through the net at a time where our stock was very high.

The club needs a RB, 2xCBs as it stands,possibly a LB, a DM, a AM and probably a backup FWD. 7 new players! How hell did we allow such a calamity to happen because we weren't too sure about a player here and there? Unacceptable really, I can't see how we are in a position where we need to do a complete rebuild instead of a bit of cosmetic work here and there.

Soon enough we'll need a new GK as well. 8 new players for our new spine, Jesus Christ that's a calamity that's occurred.

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

I agree. I remember reading something about Poch praising Steve Hitchen for recommending Lucas Moura to him. The praise itself almost felt like Lucas wasn't Poch signing and low and behold ever since then Lucas is being treated like he wasn't a Poch signing.

I think we have very flawed ways, I think we need a little more quality behind the scenes as too many players have slipped through the net at a time where our stock was very high.

The club needs a RB, 2xCBs as it stands,possibly a LB, a DM, a AM and probably a backup FWD. 7 new players! How hell did we allow such a calamity to happen because we weren't too sure about a player here and there? Unacceptable really, I can't see how we are in a position where we need to do a complete rebuild instead of a bit of cosmetic work here and there.

Soon enough we'll need a new GK as well. 8 new players for our new spine, Jesus Christ that's a calamity that's occurred.

We got stale. Unless you have a golden generation like Barcelona had or a all star squad like Real Madrid had those years and Milan back in the day new signings are obligatory. Ferguson knew best

 

[Claud601]

Honest question, do we have a scout department? I don’t think so. I think we buy players Poch and his staff likes and that’s it. We are shocking. The great team we had in 2017 was almost made all of players brought in AVB years or the academy.

The bale money era jeez

 

[JohnnyS]

Poch as been absolutely shocking this year but the 2018 transfers windows is also playing a big part on this downfall. Levy is accountable for this shower of shit as well. And the one with most power to change it.

The ironic bit is that while Levy's actions have also contributed to this (the aforementioned window when we could have used some new faces and for whatever reason he decided not to spend), the situation we're in right now doesn't call for Levy to go on a transfer splurge, but sack the coach. Poch looks like he's done and the quickest fix would be to bring someone new in the locker room and then see what can be addressed in the January and summer windows.

 

[John Thomas]

Agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Critically though I do not believe Levy has THFC’s interests on equal standing to ENIC’s and I am utterly sick of their ownership and champion change. Not that we will get it anytime soon.

I feel the football club has been used to support the wider aims of ENIC. To a degree we have benefited and to a degree we have suffered, but on field success only seems necessary to an extent.

For me, a crucial difference between our clubs owners and other owners has been that their ownership of our club seems to have facilitated them in their major land deals obtained at preferred rates for our owners, at other clubs that’s not, it seems, been the principle aim, with perhaps the exception of West Ham


In our case success on the pitch has resulted in funds from the football side of the business being used for wider non football transactions and that is understandable, but also annoying as winning or seriously looking like your trying to win seems to have been unnecessary.

My fear going forward is that the football club is of much less value then the property / land / stadium income then there would be little to no point in major investment. For example Premier League survival results in ( I think ) 80 million a year, so what does a championship win bring ? Double that maybe but it would require 5 x more investment, so what’s the incentive if your Levy ?

Makes much more sense to try to finish 4th on as tight a budget as possible. That’s the economic argument and why I often feel the brakes were applied when we are / were so close.....

As for where we were 15 years ago, yep I see your point, but where we were when ENIC took over in 2000 was mid table. I would not bet against being in the same situation when they leave and in 19 years, 1 trophy is awful for a club of our standing. And let’s not lose sight of what we became under them ( and Sugar also ) a bit of a joke in the wider scheme of things. In the shadows to Chelsea, Arse etc year on year and that being sort of “accepted” and we morphed into this plucky, slightly skint club that was “punching above our weight”.

In the 19 years prior to ENIC’s arrival we won 3 FA Cups and a UEFA cup, finished in the Top 3 were considered to be one of the “big 5” and were a club who could legitimately claim to big, we were not “Doctor Tottenham” in those days with horrific records against so called “rival clubs”. We were not the club of “Lads, it’s Tottenham”

Even in the mid to late 80’s we would be signing players like Waddle, Gazza, Lineker etc - would we sign Sterling, Hazzard or Aubameyang these days ? Nope. We don’t sign anyone at times and even when we do it’s a buggers muddle far too often. We end up with Frasier Campbell on loan, Clint Dempsey, Mouthino deal breaking down, Dybala breaking down.....

Yes Sugar took us on a path to mid table, but his era lasted 9 years and delivered a trophy too.
And that’s my problem overall with ENIC. They have not really substantially improved us on the pitch so much that they deserve the continued pass on their failures, yes we look “shiny and modern” and “new” but we also have a hint of cheap and failure about us too.

And in our current crisis what’s ENIC got to say about it all? Pretty much nothing. No leadership and that’s how it’s felt for too long. Has the Chairman made us an anchor tennant in our own Stadium ( can we even say it’s ours ? ) who has the £500 million debt, ENIC or THFC - I never feel it’s clear.

I do understand it could be a lot worse and it might get worse, but consider this;

Leicester were 6 points above us when ENIC arrived...... since then Leicester have won the league and are still above us, by around similar margins and 19 years have passed.

If any Spurs fan does just one thing today, they should read Lee's post above, Then pause and reflect.

Absolutely superb

 

[JohnnyS]

If any Spurs fan does just one thing today, they should read Lee's post above, Then pause and reflect.

Absolutely superb

The post is mostly spot on. I'm not a fan of ENIC and one trophy since they took us over in unforgivable. Yes, they took care of the rot after the Sugar era and made us a properly run club, but this was necessary so that we would become profitable. I haven't seen much of an intent from them that they want us to go the extra mile, but they do have the excuse of the new stadium. Now that it is completed, I'm not sure what the next step of their plan is: to use the stadium in order to generate profit and nothing more, to sell the club for a heap of money or to take us to the next level. I don't believe in the third option and I sure as hell dread the first one, but this is something out of our control isn't it?

 

[stevee]

The post is mostly spot on. I'm not a fan of ENIC and one trophy since they took us over in unforgivable. Yes, they took care of the rot after the Sugar era and made us a properly run club, but this was necessary so that we would become profitable. I haven't seen much of an intent from them that they want us to go the extra mile, but they do have the excuse of the new stadium. Now that it is completed, I'm not sure what the next step of their plan is: to use the stadium in order to generate profit and nothing more, to sell the club for a heap of money or to take us to the next level. I don't believe in the third option and I sure as hell dread the first one, but this is something out of our control isn't it?

Good post.

A question that I would ask is, if ENIC are only interested in profits, why would they not want a successful team ?

Yes, without a doubt, top 4 is a priority for them. But surely the winning of trophies regularly would increase the value of THFC, so why would they deliberately sabotage that ?

 

[Murphy]

I find it hillarious that 25 percent of Spurs fans want Levy out, yet 55 of them want Poch out.

Perhaps we deserve all this shit after all.

:avbshock:

Levy realistically isn’t going anywhere, though. Whether we want him to or not.

 

[Chester/ Yukon]

Good post.

A question that I would ask is, if ENIC are only interested in profits, why would they not want a successful team ?

Yes, without a doubt, top 4 is a priority for them. But surely the winning of trophies regularly would increase the value of THFC, so why would they deliberately sabotage that ?

The extra constant investment needed in the first 11 to compete with City/Chavs Scousers(wages double) outweighs any revenue gain if successful . Low risk strategy.
As long top 4 , stadium full , NFL , tv money is reasonable profit on low wage structure and low net spend .
Yes they would welcome success but its not a priority and their model is not trophies but revenue driven.
If the team continues to underperform they will panic and invest as a decade back to protect their brand.

 

[stevee]

The extra constant investment needed in the first 11 to compete with City/Chavs Scousers(wages double) outweighs any revenue gain if successful . Low risk strategy.
As long top 4 , stadium full , NFL , tv money is reasonable profit on low wage structure and low net spend .
Yes they would welcome success but its not a priority and their model is not trophies but revenue driven.
If the team continues to underperform they will panic and invest as a decade back to protect their brand.

Yep, agree with all that.

 

[JohnnyS]

Good post.

A question that I would ask is, if ENIC are only interested in profits, why would they not want a successful team ?

Yes, without a doubt, top 4 is a priority for them. But surely the winning of trophies regularly would increase the value of THFC, so why would they deliberately sabotage that ?

I've been thinking about this myself and it might be that they think the extra investment needed for us to take that extra step would be too much. This is quite understandable... splashing the cash doesn't always guarantee success. You just need to look at what Manure did in the last couple of years, although they did win the Europa and the League Cup in 2017, but they have still been playing horrid football throughout. ENIC might just consider that the rewards might not be worth the financial risk.

In any case, we can do much worse in terms of owners and I do blame Poch for us not winning a trophy in the last years and the way he has treated the domestic cups.

 

[stevee]

I do blame Poch for us not winning a trophy in the last years and the way he has treated the domestic cups.

Maybe he has been told in no uncertain terms that top 4 is the goal ? even to the detriment of domestic cups ?

Not saying that's the case or that it is right, only that it is a possibility.

 

[JohnnyS]

Maybe he has been told in no uncertain terms that top 4 is the goal ? even to the detriment of domestic cups ?

Not saying that's the case or that it is right, only that it is a possibility.

That might very well make sense when you're at the start of the season and you're playing on multiple fronts, but if you get to the final stages of a competition, it's obvious that you should be pushing to win it. It wasn't Levy who told Poch to start Vorm in the FA Cup semi against Manure, that's pretty much certain. Our coach's tactics and selection cost us then. It also wasn't Levy who got schooled by Conte in the League Cup final in 2015... The team we fielded then was arguably just as good as the one Chelsea had.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

Levy is responsible for setting our process back 5 years by sacking Harry Redknapp.
I must have said that 100 times.

I’m not going to blame him for for not backing Poch though because 450M on 27 players in five years says that’s a complete load of fucking nonsense.

What Poch does with those players (eg not use half of them) isn’t the chairman’s fault.
He was building a training center and stadium for the best part of 15 years while constantly securing the most lucrative sponsorship deals in the game and cunts expect him to whack on a pair of boots and score our goals too?

I like most of what you said but I don't think Harry Redknapp would have taken us any further than he did. Pochettino's arrival and the ideas he brought with him were as vital to our development as a club as Harry's were he took over from Ramos and Martin Jol. All four managers made a mark and did what we needed them to do at the time (I don't believe Jol was capable of beating Woolwich 5-1 and winning the Carling Cup) but they were all flawed and had to be replaced for us to move on.

 

[Matt1882]

Aye imagine Levy giving time to a manager who got Spurs in a CL final? Imagine that, fucking muppets.

Maybe we're got to the final despite pochettino, rather then because of him? Looking at the utterly dismal league results, the home loss to ajax, the 4-3 away loss to city, the poor group results...