Messi - The greatest player ever?

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There has never been a player, besides Messi who has been the best player in the world for over a decade. In his teens and his 30s.

Pele. Won the world cup aged 17 in 1958. Then went on to win 2 further world cups the last one when he was 29. People argue that he never played in Europe but few players then moved to clubs in other continents. He was a member of the Santos team that hammered the cream of Europe whenever they played them. They beat all before them for a very long period of time. Add to the cat that Pele would have lumps kicked out of him week after week. Not like Messi who is protected by much sterner refereeing.Messi has a long way to go before he can compete with him.
 
Pele. Won the world cup aged 17 in 1958. Then went on to win 2 further world cups the last one when he was 29. People argue that he never played in Europe but few players then moved to clubs in other continents. He was a member of the Santos team that hammered the cream of Europe whenever they played them. They beat all before them for a very long period of time. Add to the cat that Pele would have lumps kicked out of him week after week. Not like Messi who is protected by much sterner refereeing.Messi has a long way to go before he can compete with him.
his penis failed though
 
This guy certainly thinks so!

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Personally, I don't think the difference between being the best is a single tournament. Especially not one that isn't the highest quality tournament in the World.
there is something about influence and leadership, pressure at international level that is different to club level. Remember the early stages of the CL is piss boring and easy for a lot of the big clubs like barca. Then then the rest of it has tended to be dominated by the same few clubs - all littered with superstars. Money buys the glory at club level - thats not the case at international level where its sometimes necessary to play with players that arent at the top level, in a different system, against sometime unknown opposition.
I think the World cup is the pinnacle for all players.
 
there is something about influence and leadership, pressure at international level that is different to club level. Remember the early stages of the CL is piss boring and easy for a lot of the big clubs like barca. Then then the rest of it has tended to be dominated by the same few clubs - all littered with superstars. Money buys the glory at club level - thats not the case at international level where its sometimes necessary to play with players that arent at the top level, in a different system, against sometime unknown opposition.
I think the World cup is the pinnacle for all players.
It may be the pinnacle in terms of esteem. But not quality. I'd back most CL quarter finalists to beat every international side.

Cruyff is no lesser a player because he didn't win international honours.
 
The conversation about 'greatest' inevitably features Pele and Maradona, both world cup winners. Cruyff ofc is many people's favourite player but he isn't considered by many observers to be the greatest, partly because he didn't win a world cup.

It may be the pinnacle in terms of esteem. But not quality. I'd back most CL quarter finalists to beat every international side.

Cruyff is no lesser a player because he didn't win international honours.

Agree but it's not purely a question of technical ability is it though, it's also feats. A WC win completes the Messi CV.
 
It may be the pinnacle in terms of esteem. But not quality. I'd back most CL quarter finalists to beat every international side.

Cruyff is no lesser a player because he didn't win international honours.
Of course there are loads of truly great players that didn't win international honours, not really disagreeing with that, but if they had added such a title they'd be elevated further. That german shitcunt at the scum has intenrational honours but he's not a great footballer.
Its not a fair comparison re CL - lots of very gifted footballers from the top clubs shit themselves at the WC, and also are you really saying that Liverpool Roma was higher quality than a world cup QF or SF? As I've said playing in a familiar system and with the same players for a whole season - is much easier than playing with a group of players from different clubs with a different coach.
 
Weren't the World Cups still full of amateur players still in the early years up until the 80s?

Hardly the pinnacle of world football
 
Of course there are loads of truly great players that didn't win international honours, not really disagreeing with that, but if they had added such a title they'd be elevated further. That german shitcunt at the scum has intenrational honours but he's not a great footballer.
Its not a fair comparison re CL - lots of very gifted footballers from the top clubs shit themselves at the WC, and also are you really saying that Liverpool Roma was higher quality than a world cup QF or SF? As I've said playing in a familiar system and with the same players for a whole season - is much easier than playing with a group of players from different clubs with a different coach.

Agree, it's not a like for like comparison with the CL/WC but having won both elevates a player's esteem. Worth remembering even for the very great players a WC win is something else, all the greatest players want to win it.

In any event this argument is pretty pointless because of the difficulty of comparing across eras - it's just a bit of fun for the fans. Messi v Ronaldo is an actual debate.
 
Weren't the World Cups still full of amateur players still in the early years up until the 80s?

Hardly the pinnacle of world football
not really, only in terms of certain countries being less developed in terms of a pro football infrastructure - like african teams. compare against the european cup in a similar era where clubs like malmo and honved were at the top table. Its all relative, however international football was held in much higher regard then. the champions league/premier league generation have undermined international football.
 
not really, only in terms of certain countries being less developed in terms of a pro football infrastructure - like african teams. compare against the european cup in a similar era where clubs like malmo and honved were at the top table. Its all relative, however international football was held in much higher regard then. the champions league/premier league generation have undermined international football.

Completely agree, though even now I reckon Messi or Ronaldo would swap one or two CL trophies for a world cup.
 
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