We don't want to do a Leeds.
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I’ll take the study at face value in a second.
But two major criticisms…
1) it’s a measure of social progress, not progressiveness. They are not necessarily the same thing (we we shall see).
2) it’s just one index and one that claims to have a sensitivity of 0.02% (the difference between U.K. and France) in its ranking. That’s not plausible - even in social sciences. Even France’s lead in 2020 of 0.24% is not credible. It’s not that the LEAD is small… it’s that you can’t measure complex societal features to that degree of accuracy.
Anyway… most categories are basically the same for the two countries which probably is fair. Note, I didn’t say either country was « miles ahead ».
Only potentially significant differences?
+4.87 for the U.K. - access to information and communications. Broadband access might be a good measure of social progress but not progressiveness.
+3.29 for France - health and wellness. This is a good measure of progressiveness.
+5.06 for France - inclusiveness. This is a good measure of progressiveness.
Yep! I'm quite happy us taking their money off them. Better in our pockets than theirs. What I don't want are their fingers in the pie as far as direct influence goes.Here's a theoretical question for the 35% who have so far voted no.
You don't want Qatari investment, even if the money was invested in to the playing squad, presumably because you morally object to the source of that money.
If Saudi backed Newcastle made some hugely obscene bid of say £250 million so called blood notes for a want-away Harry Kane, which could / would be invested in the playing squad, how would you vote in a poll which asked should we take the money?
I think if you look at the life of an average person then the experience is more progressive in France than the U.K. but not by much. I’m talking about basic things like healthcare, childcare, access to university, standard of public debate… these are the significant building blocks of every day life that matter. But if you disagree there’s no way to dissolve these differences.Hence why I said the difference are slim. France isn't ahead and nor is the UK, unless you cherry pick categories. In some areas (Health service, social support) France is ahead. If you define progressiveness as openness to science then the U.K publishes the 3rd most peer-reviewed scientific papers in the world, France the 7th most. And you could find 1000 more of these 1on1 comparisons which makes either country seem more progressive.
Any gap between the two, overall, is negligible. And even within the categories there is nuance, for example France's general education system edges ahead, but the U.K has the much more reputable institutions for higher education .. etc.
I think if you look at the life of an average person then the experience is more progressive in France than the U.K. but not by much. I’m talking about basic things like healthcare, childcare, access to university, standard of public debate… these are the significant building blocks of every day life that matter. But if you disagree there’s no way to dissolve these differences.
And in the end both countries should be immensely proud as the two key drivers behind the enlightenment and two of the most socially progressive countries in the world (tories notwithstanding).
Glad to hear recycling is a thing in Paris Lol Yeah mate we do that here too. If you read my post not cherry picked comments then I was one who called the idea 'facile'. ....Oscar wilde really? We were comparing cities. But you know whatever.I can’t believe my specialist topic of London v Paris has come up. I don’t agree withMemphisWill but the reaction by lots of butt hurt Londoners at an innocuous comment is funny.
In some ways there’s a clear difference between the cities in how progressive they are and in other ways it’s impossible to say (and pointless to even try). Overall how can you really split them?
For London…
- Only one city has phenomenal social and racial mixing. Poor and rich live very close to each other (one of London’s great strengths despite slipping over the past decade). Holland Park / Ladbroke Grove full of these pockets, as an example.
For Paris…
- Only one city has made a genuine, consistent effort on Green issues. Socialist mayor Hidalgo is kicking cars off the road and the whole of central Paris will be car free (with caveats) in the coming years. Also recycling is a thing in Paris (unless London has caught up).
However… France as a whole is more progressive than the U.K. So many fiscal decisions still taken for the benefit of the people which are excellent. Take child care - in France if you earn the median or below then you don’t pay a cent. Those who earn more (like me) paid very little. And it was high quality. In England? Not so much…
Shotgunofmichalebrow - the pride comparison is a bit silly. A party is not the same as rights. Oscar Wilde was chased from the U.K. for being gay and sought refuge in France - he’s buried in Père Lachaise. Homosexuality has not been a crime in France since 1791. In England and wales that date is 1967.
I don't want to go back to where I was under labour.Yeah we've suffered from Tory rule, a lot. They'll (hopefully) be ousted at the next election and we can get on with a painful climb back to where we were just a decade or so ago. This country is pretty great, except we're governed by wankers because a lot of people have some weird stockholm syndrome when it comes to the Tory party.
(Anyway thread has been a bit derailed lol).
A country where homosexuality has been a relative non-issue since 1791 is less likely to feel the need to throw a party for LGTBQ than a country where they were criminalised by law when our parents were born.Glad to hear recycling is a thing in Paris Lol Yeah mate we do that here too. If you read my post not cherry picked comments then I was one who called the idea 'facile'. ....Oscar wilde really? We were comparing cities. But you know whatever.
Social governmental policy is not what he said. You have had actually Facists and their proto Facist progeny run to be president. Old Farrage has tried and failed to be elected as a simple MP ...So as I said to begin with WTF metric are you using. Said it was facile and your contributions have fully confirmed it. OK so I'm done derailing this thread; ashamed we took the bait.
I want the NHS, and the police too Matt . Open your eyes keeping this lot would be like sticking with Nuno. They have had eleven years let someone else try.
Londons not a country.A country where homosexuality has been a relative non-issue since 1791 is less likely to feel the need to throw a party for LGTBQ than a country where they were criminalised by law when our parents were born.
But yes, it is silly. Agreed
Correct but homosexuality was illegal in London until 1967. The national context in which the capital cities sit is important.
I wouldn't pack my good overalls in a suitcase for a transatlantic flight, no.
Facile nonsense. The idea a country where a woman can't where a scarf on her head and has had Nazis a hair from the presidency is intrinsic more progressive is just oddCorrect but homosexuality was illegal in London until 1967. The national context in which the capital cities sit is important.
It’s like saying « London didn’t vote for Brexit ». Sure - but you still suffer the consequences.
Absolutely right. And the bunch of high riding moral hypocrites among our fanbase would deserve every future decade of failure and piss take that comes our way.If Enic let another Premier league team hit the jackpot then they are committing gross misconduct IMO