calm down bob
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Finally puts this one to bed...
Drinkwater for 38 mil!!!Just looked at Chelsea's transfer activity last season
Alvaro Morata Real Madrid 66,00 Mill. €
Tiemoué BakayokoMonaco 40,00 Mill. €
Danny DrinkwaterLeicester 37,90 Mill. €
Antonio RüdigerAS Roma 35,00 Mill. €
Davide ZappacostaTorino 25,00 Mill. €
Emerson
Olivier GiroudWoolwich 17,00 Mill. €
Ross BarkleyEverton 16,90 Mill. €
260m Euros spent on that lot. Absolutely insane no wonder Conte isn't there anymore
See Celtic and see us.
Pochettino is not a fcuking magician and despite his pre-seasom comments he must be seething at our lack of investment.
As Rodgers said it is not rocket science to see what is likely to happen if you don't freshen up a squad.
I don't give a flying fcuk what anyone says, Kane looks tired and is not a machine, Son is off and outside of Eriksen (streaky and maybe now distracted) and Alli we lack regular goal threats.
We will need to be so good and very lucky with injuries or it could turn messy.
Expect Rodgers to quit before the end of the season. Hope Pochettino doesn't.
Pochettino is not a fcuking magician and despite his pre-seasom comments he must be seething at our lack of investment.
As Rodgers said it is not rocket science to see what is likely to happen if you don't freshen up a squad.
I don't give a flying fcuk what anyone says, Kane looks tired and is not a machine, Son is off and outside of Eriksen (streaky and maybe now distracted) and Alli we lack regular goal threats.
We will need to be so good and very lucky with injuries or it could turn messy.
Expect Rodgers to quit before the end of the season. Hope Pochettino doesn't.
I am genuinely not someone who gets worked up about transfer business, understand our economic model and am usually very on board and pragmatic about it. But I think we've had issues in midfield for 3 years. We have a CB who's game is very one dimensional and limited with his transitional play, Dembele who, even when fit which is only about 60% of the time and about 60% of any one game, holds onto the ball at least two pirouettes too many every time, Wanyama who's a very good 6 but is now seriously fucked, and Winks who I like as a footballer but has not exactly been overly trusted by Poch (500 minutes in 16/17) and does have some positional issues and really needs to play in a CM3 which, up to now, we have hardly ever played. Oh, and Onomah, who probably has the highest potential of any player out of our academy (and some of the aforementioned too) but hasn't been given a single minute in his natural CM position in three years (and only about 20 league minutes by Poch in the time he was with the first team). And don't get me fucking started on Sissoko...
It's OK saying "if we can't improve on what we've got there's no point in buying" but are we seriously saying we couldn't improve on what we have?
Bollocks we couldn't. The reason we've done no business is because we find ourselves - for various reasons - with a bloated squad of ordinary, knackered (or both in some cases) and well paid footballers who we couldn't shift to make room because the only market for them is full of clubs who've made the same mistakes.
And this is where making better use of the academy becomes very relevant and viable. Imagine if in the last 12/36 months we'd used Pritchard, Winks, Onomah, KWP, Sterling and Edwards to fill the (in many cases minuscule) squad remit that NJie, Sissoko, Nkoudou, Llorente, Aurier and Moura have filled?
In a footballing sense, would we really have suffered much ? at all? In some cases, could we have even been better off?
And financially we'd be about 120m in fees and about 25m pa in wages - and 5 non HG spots better off.
I'm not sure I buy the "we could improve so we don't bother line" and I also don't blame Levy for all of the problem either. If Poch had been as brave as he likes to tell us he is, I think we would be in a healthier place right now. People are pointing at the money Klopp's just spent, but one of the reasons he can spend it is because when VanDyke wasn't immediately available he didn't demand they signed "someone else" he waited, and when Clyne was injured he played two kids instead if demanding they signed "someone". When Keita wasn't available immediately he didn't demand they signed "someone else" they waited a year for him. I think we have generally played the market better than most, but I started saying this a few years ago - as well as we were doing it, we needed to do it better, make more use of the very good academy produce, even if it's just for "squad" remit players - they are no more a gamble than many of the signings we make, but cost us a fraction, and don't take non HG squad places.
It's OK saying "if we can't improve on what we've got there's no point in buying" but are we seriously saying we couldn't improve on what we have?
Bollocks we couldn't. The reason we've done no business is because we find ourselves - for various reasons - with a bloated squad of ordinary, knackered (or both in some cases) and well paid footballers who we couldn't shift to make room because the only market for them is full of clubs who've made the same mistakes.
And this is where making better use of the academy becomes very relevant and viable. Imagine if in the last 12/36 months we'd used Pritchard, Winks, Onomah, KWP, Sterling and Edwards to fill the (in many cases minuscule) squad remit that NJie, Sissoko, Nkoudou, Llorente, Aurier and Moura have filled?
In a footballing sense, would we really have suffered much ? at all? In some cases, could we have even been better off?
And financially we'd be about 120m in fees and about 25m pa in wages - and 5 non HG spots better off.
I'm not sure I buy the "we could improve so we don't bother line" and I also don't blame Levy for all of the problem either. If Poch had been as brave as he likes to tell us he is, I think we would be in a healthier place right now. People are pointing at the money Klopp's just spent, but one of the reasons he can spend it is because when VanDyke wasn't immediately available he didn't demand they signed "someone else" he waited, and when Clyne was injured he played two kids instead if demanding they signed "someone". When Keita wasn't available immediately he didn't demand they signed "someone else" they waited a year for him. I think we have generally played the market better than most, but I started saying this a few years ago - as well as we were doing it, we needed to do it better, make more use of the very good academy produce, even if it's just for "squad" remit players - they are no more a gamble than many of the signings we make, but cost us a fraction, and don't take non HG squad places.
I think a lot of this comes down to our scouting network and player identification.
We haven't had a settled player recruitment system in place since Poch arrived.
Baldini was here initially, and had to get rid of a load of shit that he bought. Then we had Paul Mitchell who, as the story goes, identified players for us to go out and sign and essentially got pissed off because Levy kept going for cheaper alternatives. Vincent Jansen instead of Michy Batshuayi, Clinton N'Jie instead of Anthony Martial etc...Remember, at the time Batshuayi and Martial weren't big name players.
Now we have Steve Hitchen, but does anybody know what he's actually done since he's been here? Minus Juan Foyth, which I'm not even sure was his recommendation, we've signed Davinson Sanchez, Serge Aurier, Fernando Llorente and Lucas Moura. I could have identified those players.
I really don't think that's why Paul Mitchell left, if you listen to the scout 7 podcast (15.12.2016), Rob MacKensie talks about the recruitment process regarding Janssen and it wasn't purely about Batshuayi being more expensive, it was a logical process, Batshuayi's has never been a great player outside the area (which is why Conte refused to play him, even when Costa was out) - we wanted a player who would kind of understudy the fulcrum role Kane does and Janssen was prepared to work at that and be an understudy, knowing he wouldn't be starting most weeks - Batshuaya went for 38m in the end, more than double Janssen and for a player who was never going to be first choice, wasn't anything like Kane and needed to appreciate that he wasn't going to play (and would therefore want a good wage) - what would have been the point of spending 38m?
It's not like Mitchell left for ManU or ManC or Chelsea, he's now at Leipzig, where they have even smaller resources than Spurs.
I think he left almost fr opposite reasons. His services wasn't being utilised, instead we were buying players like Sissoko for 30m, who just didn't fit an analytics profile but because he'd had a good game against us and 10 good minutes at the Euros.
Agree with the last bit.
And I hope We NEVER pretend to be interested again.
The guy has no ambition but also he is happy to be the big fish and play football. I think both bits are accurate.
The way it is going in football players who are the best in their clubs are sort of stuck until the last 18 months of their contracts.
It's either pay us 50 to 70 million (their club) or shut up. In the last 18 months that flips, so better to just get a bigger contract.
Strange strange times.
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I see what you're saying but Pochettino needs to buy players that suit a system. He adheres to a philosophy of play which requires a particular fit.
There are definitely areas of the team that I see as danger areas but ones we are able to manage. The centre of midfield along with the full back positions cause me concern when it comes to squad depth but I don't think we are in trouble just yet. The telling time will be next summer where we say goodbye to the likes of Dembele and will see how genuine the fitness concerns of Wanyama & Winks are by then. We'll also see is Rose continues to be a peripheral figure and can't regain his form is not sold by then and if Aurier kicks on another level. Dembele & Toby gone, no more Llorente as backup. GKN & Janssens bags surely packed by then and serious question marks over Wanyama & Winks fitness levels & Rose/Aurier ability to play at the levels required for a top 4 club. It's really important Wanyama & Winks have good seasons and that Aurier demonstrates he has what it takes or there will be a lot of things that need to happen in 10-11 months time.
Dembele, Winks, Wanyama, Rose, Aurier, Toby, Nkoudou, Janssen, Llorente & Vorm with big & potential last seasons with the club, without mentioning Jan's contract expiring & Eriksen still to sign up with a couple of years left on his. Next summer is bound to be a crazy one one way or another we just need to hope the 12/13 players with areas of concern over them this season either sign new deals, have injury free seasons, hit a consistent bit of form and play their part for the overall good of the team
Fool. Crystal Palace will be his Hotel California.
I can accept not doing anything in other positions in the window, but central midfield, and more specifically Dembele is the position we simply had no excuse not to upgrade in. I absolutely love the guy but the facts are he's never going to be fully fit, is running down his contract and has hinted himself numerous times he'd prefer to move on. This is now the third Summer in a row we've been looking at "long term replacements" for him. I just simply cannot comprehend how we have still failed to replace him. Surely by now our scouting network has identified a number of players and have a clear first choice target to replace him. It's just so so frustrating when its a position that's so vital to the team, could really move us on to the next level and when you see some of the midfielders that have been available/moved over the last number of years it just adds insult to injury.
A monumental error by the club this Summer letting this one slide yet again.
Here's a question for you-what do you suppose is Poch's system/philosophy these days?
Reason we can’t replace Moussa is because there’s very very few players in the world who play like he does. That lad from Lyon looks like he could but Lyon didn’t wanna sell for a reasonable price by all accounts and it’s a big risk signing a young player for a lot of money, for a club in our position. But overall I agree it’s a big issue for us and next year it has to be sorted no matter what.
I did not even open this thread until a couple of weeks ago as there appeared no sign of any movement. my expectations last May was plenty of movement and I expected Rose, Alderweireld and possibly Dembele, Sissoko and Nkoudou to all possibly go and need replacing. They all stayed and therefore as all non British trained places taken we either needed to buy homegrown and Really should have snapped Grealish up early or bought with intention to sell someone even if we had to lower the price.
As kept everyone as long as those injury concerns are OK and Poch plays Rose and Toby I am reasonably content.
Next summer could see a major turnaround with those mentioned above all leaving. That is a concern as too many changes will upset the balance of the team.
As kept everyone as long as those injury concerns are OK and Poch plays Rose and Toby I am reasonably content.
Next summer could see a major turnaround with those mentioned above all leaving. That is a concern as too many changes will upset the balance of the team.
Personally I belive in the next couple of years players are gonna start refusing to sign any contract over 3 years. Transfer fees just keep going up and up so where gonna see a lot more swap deals and players running down contracts in the near future, same as you see in a lot of American sports
This would be correct if it was a recent problem like Toby, however this has been an issue for us for neigh on 3 years now. Its a pretty sad indictment of our recruitment/scouting system that we don't trust it enough to go and just pay the asking price for whoever our first choice target to replace him is, be it Ndombele or someone else.
Personally I think he's adapted over the years based on the players he's had at his disposal. That firstly for me is the sign of a great manager.
I think looking at how we shape up he likes his high defensive line with sweeper keepers and ball playing centre backs that lay the foundation to the team. He relies heavily on a defensive block in centre midfield where he regards the importance of a midfielder being more on the regaining of possession and the closing down of space than he does the creativity and drive from such space and I believe he feels the way to overcome deep playing defensive lines you force teams into playing a high defensive line is to allow fluidity between your front 4, who's close control &a imagination is key to breaking games up.
I still think Pochettino is a fair few players away from getting his team and his true philosophy intact. I think he accommodates players currently in the team and alters his philosophy based on who we have as opposed to making players play formations &a styles that don't utilise them the most. Of the players currently at the club when he took over, I think only Jan, Eriksen & Hugo match his approach well and others like Dembele possibly don't but there's no way he can't play him due to his quality.
Pochettino is having to buy 2nd tier players such as Sanchez, Foyth & even Son based on being in charge of a team like Spurs. He's doing a great job and I love that he focuses on a players character as much as their ability as character wins you more points than it loses over a duration of time where you're trying to build a tradition at the club, but I do believe we are yet to see Pochettinos purest footballing philosophy shine through based on certain circumstances surrounding the club. His patience is admirable
Yeah I get where you're coming from. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact I don't think Paul Mitchell was particualry happy with the decisions being made in player recruitment and we weren't happy with his player recruitment - just didn't work out for either of us, in the end.
EDIT: funny you should talk about going to United...
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Yep very true.
And outside of Son that is particularly bad when it comes to attack-minded players.
When AVB did this - after we sold first Modric, then VDV, Bale, lost Gallas and Adebayor (mentally), and had to work with players like Clint Dempsey and 7 new players, didn't everyone call him "boring"?
I don't really understand the bit in bold.
Poch's early strategy of high press was the best way to break down deep playing defences as you catch them before they are set, what we've played the last 12 months, reactively winning the ball back in deeper areas because players like Alli can't press very well, and Dier can't press high because his recovery is so slow, just allows teams to sit deep and force us to play the more methodical "AVB last season" stuff we played much of last year.
I don't think this is really how Poch wants to play, or why did he buy Wanyama, who's much more proactive at pressing and hunting the ball quickly - and with whom we had our best season under Poch. I think he's lost his way a little, maybe hampered by the loss of Wanyama, but he really needs to get back to the more pro-active and less risk averse approach, and Dier and the "reactive" midfield is a big obstacle to that.
You could hardly call Sanchez at 40m (one of the most expensive CB's in the world - aged 21) a "second tier signing. Alderweireld wasn't second tier, just great value. Same Trippier, Alli, Wanyama. And three years ago the 22m we paid for Son wasn't bargain basement for a player like him out of the Bundesliga, the same 30m for Sissoko two summers ago.
I think Pochettino is a great coach, the best in my time - I'm 53 - but I don't think his own contribution to recruitment has always been symbiotic with his supposed philosophy and I don't always think his selections are either. He's become much more risk averse in application than people like Klopp and Guardiola, who rely much more on aggressive, higher risk or intensity strategies, and it's not just about working with better players, our squad was at least on par with Liverpool's until this summer - they still managed three cup finals (including two European) and two CL qualifying seasons ahead of richer clubs than them.