Summer 2021 - Transfer Thread

[TomHotspur]

Not sure it's fair to say he should have played them more, but:

- KWP & Onomah's development were fucked up by not being given loans.
- Edwards situ was just a bit of a mess.
- Winks is by far a lesser player than he should have been, having been hampered by forcing him into the proverbial 'round hole'.
...And a few of the younger prospects wouldn't sign senior deals as they couldn't see a pathway (Madueke is set to be BVBs 'new Sancho'.)

Why such a scathing view on the youth coaches?

- Onomah was given a number of loans and was extremely mediocre in each of them. He also never appeared to have anything special about him any time he played for us, even in League Cup matches. KWP could have been given a loan, sure, but a loan wouldn’t have suddenly made him a quicker or stronger player. He was never going to be good enough to play for us.
- Edwards was obviously an exceptionally talented player, but unfortunately it appears he was also a monumental bellend. Obviously the Messi comparison from Pochettino was ill judged, and is one I’m sure he still regrets to this day.
- Winks was excellent when he first came into the squad. His career had nosedived due to playing too many matches, lack of confidence, injuries and just not being as technically good as it appeared he was initially.
- Young players not signing deals is par for the course for all big clubs. Almost every big club has a Madueke situation, and apart from him what young player has left the club in recent times to achieve any kind of success?

Perhaps the scathing view of the coaches was harsh, but any academy that had Tim Sherwood at the forefront of its coaching ticket for so long has questions to answer surely.

 

[TomHotspur]

You clearly have no idea about Spurs Academy

For your information its rated as about 3rd or 4th in UK

Sadly Poch 'train but no play' ethos killed off the stream of Spurs youngsters coming through as 'squad players' - meaning we ended up buying squad players - yet when he arrived we had Mason, Bentaleb, Townsend, Carroll, Veljkovic and others, .... as well as Kane.. Sadly almost none when he left.

Is it? If that’s the case I’d hate to see what academy’s are below us in the pecking order.

And I’m sorry, but how can Pochs ethos be blamed when literally none of the crop of youth players he had at his disposal have gone on to any kind of success since they have left?

You mention Mason, Bentaleb, Townsend, Carroll, Veljkovic.
Mason was one of our main squad players for two years under Poch before being rightly sold. Bentaleb would have been our main midfielder if he wasn’t such a complete prick as can be seen by his conduct since he has left.
Townsend and Carroll? You having a laugh? Townsend was painfully average and Carroll only stayed at the club so long because he’s Harry Kane’s best friend.
Veljkovic I can’t comment on tbf because I’ve genuinely never seen him play.

 

[Spursidol]

- Onomah was given a number of loans and was extremely mediocre in each of them. He also never appeared to have anything special about him any time he played for us, even in League Cup matches. KWP could have been given a loan, sure, but a loan wouldn’t have suddenly made him a quicker or stronger player. He was never going to be good enough to play for us.
- Edwards was obviously an exceptionally talented player, but unfortunately it appears he was also a monumental bellend. Obviously the Messi comparison from Pochettino was ill judged, and is one I’m sure he still regrets to this day.
- Winks was excellent when he first came into the squad. His career had nosedived due to playing too many matches, lack of confidence, injuries and just not being as technically good as it appeared he was initially.
- Young players not signing deals is par for the course for all big clubs. Almost every big club has a Madueke situation, and apart from him what young player has left the club in recent times to achieve any kind of success?

Perhaps the scathing view of the coaches was harsh, but any academy that had Tim Sherwood at the forefront of its coaching ticket for so long has questions to answer surely.

Please list the number of loans Onomah had - you might learn something

KWP on at least 2 ocassions was voted MOTM , but dropped for the next match. He played more games for E u21's than at Spurs. Sadly never given a chance - yet excelled from the start at Southampton.

Your ignorance of Spurs youn players is only excelled by your arrogence in writing about a subject you clearly know nothing about.

 

[Spursidol]

+Is it? If that’s the case I’d hate to see what academy’s are below us in the pecking order.

And I’m sorry, but how can Pochs ethos be blamed when literally none of the crop of youth players he had at his disposal have gone on to any kind of success since they have left?

You mention Mason, Bentaleb, Townsend, Carroll, Veljkovic.
Mason was one of our main squad players for two years under Poch before being rightly sold. Bentaleb would have been our main midfielder if he wasn’t such a complete prick as can be seen by his conduct since he has left.
Townsend and Carroll? You having a laugh? Townsend was painfully average and Carroll only stayed at the club so long because he’s Harry Kane’s best friend.
Veljkovic I can’t comment on tbf because I’ve genuinely never seen him play.

I'm pleased you at least acknowledge Mason and Bentaleb being splayers in Spurs squad - as was Townsend who won a dozeb caps for England and played about 50 games for Spurs, and Tom Carroll played about 60 games.

So all 4 under any definition would be counted as squad players.

Not all players coming from the academy will be superstars such as Kane - he is a once a generation or once a decade player. The majority will be squad players.

Better to produce squad players (with the ocassional elite player) rather than buying squad players

 

[TomHotspur]

Please list the number of loans Onomah had - you might learn something

KWP on at least 2 ocassions was voted MOTM , but dropped for the next match. He played more games for E u21's than at Spurs. Sadly never given a chance - yet excelled from the start at Southampton.

Your ignorance of Spurs youn players is only excelled by your arrogence in writing about a subject you clearly know nothing about.

Onomah has had two loans. Both of which he was exceedingly average on. He has also failed to nail down a starting place at relegated Fulham. Onomah was also bang average any time he played for us. Both he and Winks both came through to the senior squad at the same time. Winks took his opportunity with both hands and was excellent in almost every game he had. Onomah in comparison was sloppy, slow, weak in possession and showed absolutely nothing to suggest he could go on to be a Premier League midfielder.

I am not ignorant nor arrogant. No one is going to give you a big pat on the back for pretending all our youth players could have been world beaters just because they’re “Spurs through and through” and “great Tottenham lads.”
The vast majority of youth players that have come out of our academy have not, nor would ever have been good enough to play for us if we harboured real hopes of being a top team.

 

[TomHotspur]

I'm pleased you at least acknowledge Mason and Bentaleb being splayers in Spurs squad - as was Townsend who won a dozeb caps for England and played about 50 games for Spurs, and Tom Carroll played about 60 games.

So all 4 under any definition would be counted as squad players.

Not all players coming from the academy will be superstars such as Kane - he is a once a generation or once a decade player. The majority will be squad players.

Better to produce squad players (with the ocassional elite player) rather than buying squad players

I agreed entirely with your last part, provided the youth players are actually good enough to be squad players.
The fact that the likes of Townsend and Carroll played so many games for us isn’t something to celebrate.
We have signed some absolute dross over the last number of years, no doubt. However the suggestion that some of our academy players would have been any better is rose tinted nonsense. (As much as I would like it to be true)

 

[Thin Lilywhite Duke]

Considering you'd expect Paratici to have Italian players high up his list of potential transfer targets, it is sod's law they've all gone and increased their value over these Euros, isn't it?

 

[Spursidol]

Onomah has had two loans. Both of which he was exceedingly average on. He has also failed to nail down a starting place at relegated Fulham. Onomah was also bang average any time he played for us. Both he and Winks both came through to the senior squad at the same time. Winks took his opportunity with both hands and was excellent in almost every game he had. Onomah in comparison was sloppy, slow, weak in possession and showed absolutely nothing to suggest he could go on to be a Premier League midfielder.

I am not ignorant nor arrogant. No one is going to give you a big pat on the back for pretending all our youth players could have been world beaters just because they’re “Spurs through and through” and “great Tottenham lads.”
The vast majority of youth players that have come out of our academy have not, nor would ever have been good enough to play for us if we harboured real hopes of being a top team.

Onomah has been out injured for a year - he's not 'not held down a place as you assert'- and you said 'a number of loans' yet its 2.

So yes you are ignorant of the players - and arrogant to write about something you know so little about

 

[Spursidol]

I agreed entirely with your last part, provided the youth players are actually good enough to be squad players.
The fact that the likes of Townsend and Carroll played so many games for us isn’t something to celebrate.
We have signed some absolute dross over the last number of years, no doubt. However the suggestion that some of our academy players would have been any better is rose tinted nonsense. (As much as I would like it to be true)

All sides sign 'duff' players - probably 50% of more transfers fail to live up to expectation.

So buying squad players (and we have had to sign those as we didn't bring through youngsters) is always a mugs game with those odds.

Spurs typically have 10 - 15 in the u18's each year - and of those typically 2 or 3 might be good enough to play a little forthe first team and one or two become squad players. And once a decade a Harry Kane.

Those odds are similar to most other good academies in uk.

 

[Airfixx]

Perhaps the scathing view of the coaches was harsh, but any academy that had Tim Sherwood at the forefront of its coaching ticket for so long has questions to answer surely.

Sherwood has proven a right old dick, but he was still decent in that capacity and McDermot was great; I don't have a clue what your "yes men" comment was all about..... To imply that these 2 were somehow being dictatorially micro-managed by Levy is (politely speaking) 'silly'.

To go back and forth over individual players is gonna spiral into essay territory, but our accademy in those days was proving fruitful; be it first team appearances or sell on fees. We have some interesting lads on the bubble atm so hopefully things can get back to that level or better.

Regardless, there is still a pecking order as far as accademies are concerned and like someone else said earlier today in this thread; the best young talent soon finds it's way ino the hands of the biggest clubs.

 

[ThePreacher]

Yeah you signed a few supposed duds, now don't bother spending money ever, ever again

The most that we have ever spent on players has given us what?

Lamela was arecord signing (at that time) has managed less than twenty games a season more often than not as sub.

Sanchez a 42 million dud.

Berj, N'Dombele, LoCelso one hundred million plus. For what?



It's not about how much you spend it's about who you spend it on. And Levy has brought some fucking shite.

 

[FightingIllini]

I'm pleased you at least acknowledge Mason and Bentaleb being splayers in Spurs squad - as was Townsend who won a dozeb caps for England and played about 50 games for Spurs, and Tom Carroll played about 60 games.

So all 4 under any definition would be counted as squad players.

Not all players coming from the academy will be superstars such as Kane - he is a once a generation or once a decade player. The majority will be squad players.

Better to produce squad players (with the ocassional elite player) rather than buying squad players

We made a fair wedge of money for that bunch in any event

 

[BADgoodsTX]

When I meet sports fans who don’t care for football, one of the most common reasons offered has to do with how often players dive and roll around like they’ve just been harpooned. As much as I love the game—the skill, the tactics, the marriage of team coordination and individual brilliance—I can see their point.

While the antics are a tad dramatic at times, they aren't exactly nonexistent in other sports.

 

[harry7]

Again.

The signing that keeps on giving

 

[Pathfinder]

Not sure it's fair to say he should have played them more, but:

- KWP & Onomah's development were fucked up by not being given loans.
- Edwards situ was just a bit of a mess.
- Winks is by far a lesser player than he should have been, having been hampered by forcing him into the proverbial 'round hole'.
...And a few of the younger prospects wouldn't sign senior deals as they couldn't see a pathway (Madueke is set to be BVBs 'new Sancho'.)

Why such a scathing view on the youth coaches?

KWP was not deemed good enough by both Pochettino and Mourinho. I remember how fans slated him almost every game he played for Spurs. And he was given a season loan at Soto, where he was a regular, yet Mourinho still didn’t deem him good enough. And very few fans objected against him being sold.

Noni Madueke had – like more and more British players - his sight on leaving for a club abroad, as he considered it a bigger chance to develop. Not just because he may get more playing time but because they have a different way to developing players. He left at 17, so you can’t blame for Spurs not giving him a chance. Even other EPL tried to sign him before he signed for PSV.

Winks. Part of the reason why his development has suffered is his string of injuries. Like Onomah, if a player isn’t good enough to play his “best” spot, well, then he’s been played elsewhere. Personally, I would like to give him 1 more season at Spurs to prove himself, even though so many Spurs fans call him a “shit” player and can’t wait to get him sold.
Harry Winks - Injury history

Onomah got 13 games at Spurs, and he had 2 full seasons out on loan to Villa & Sheff. Wed. where he did well but never lived up to his “potential” at neither clubs; and even though he’s a regular at Fulham he’s not been more than a decent player.

Edwards was an excellent dribbler but, lack quite a few players with exceptional ball talent, lack the necessary grit and work ethics to make it in EPL.
Here are 2 articles that explains why Spurs let him go and why no other British teams wanted to take a chance on him.
Marcus Edwards told to 'grow up' or face ruining his future

The inside story of Marcus Edwards and his final months at Spurs

 

[Pathfinder]

You clearly have no idea about Spurs Academy

For your information its rated as about 3rd or 4th in UK

Sadly Poch 'train but no play' ethos killed off the stream of Spurs youngsters coming through as 'squad players' - meaning we ended up buying squad players - yet when he arrived we had Mason, Bentaleb, Townsend, Carroll, Veljkovic and others, .... as well as Kane.. Sadly almost none when he left.

If every top-prospect at Spurs had lived up to the “potential” many Spurs fans believe they have, then Spurs most probably could have won the EPL with 11 academy players. But the fact is that most top prospect never ends up being top players. Look at academies that are far better than Spurs’ – f.ex., (clubs that prey on other clubs’ academies) Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea. How many of their top prospects make it to the top? Very few.
Where are those players now after they got their chances…

Mason had 53 games for Spurs, so plenty of chances; and he started out well, and even got a England cap; but then his form dipped and was sold to Hull.
Carrol had 60 games for Spurs, so he too had plenty of games to impress. Besides, between 2011 & 2015 he was loaned out to 4 different clubs, before being sold to Swansea. Where he has exactly been brilliant.
Veljkovic is at Werder Bremen, where he’s a regular in a team that was relegated to Bundesliga 2. He’s a regular, yes, but – at 25 – not a regular at the Serbian national team.
Townsend played 50 games for Spurs, and between 2009 & 2013 he was loaned out to 9 different clubs, so he had plenty of chances to impress while at Spurs and, later, at Crystal P. He no doubt had speed and dribbling skills with a decent shot, but he clearly lacked “football intelligence”.
Bentaleb played 46 games for Spurs. Talented player but he had attitude problems, which become more obvious at Schalke; where he also did not live up to his potential.

So all the mentioned players got enough chances to shine at Spurs and even after being sold also did not shine at “lesser” clubs. It’s not always the club’s fault…

 

[Airfixx]

KWP was not deemed good enough by both Pochettino and Mourinho. I remember how fans slated him almost every game he played for Spurs. And he was given a season loan at Soto, where he was a regular, yet Mourinho still didn’t deem him good enough. And very few fans objected against him being sold.

Noni Madueke had – like more and more British players - his sight on leaving for a club abroad, as he considered it a bigger chance to develop. Not just because he may get more playing time but because they have a different way to developing players. He left at 17, so you can’t blame for Spurs not giving him a chance. Even other EPL tried to sign him before he signed for PSV.

Winks. Part of the reason why his development has suffered is his string of injuries. Like Onomah, if a player isn’t good enough to play his “best” spot, well, then he’s been played elsewhere. Personally, I would like to give him 1 more season at Spurs to prove himself, even though so many Spurs fans call him a “shit” player and can’t wait to get him sold.
Harry Winks - Injury history

Onomah got 13 games at Spurs, and he had 2 full seasons out on loan to Villa & Sheff. Wed. where he did well but never lived up to his “potential” at neither clubs; and even though he’s a regular at Fulham he’s not been more than a decent player.

Edwards was an excellent dribbler but, lack quite a few players with exceptional ball talent, lack the necessary grit and work ethics to make it in EPL.
Here are 2 articles that explains why Spurs let him go and why no other British teams wanted to take a chance on him.
Marcus Edwards told to 'grow up' or face ruining his future

The inside story of Marcus Edwards and his final months at Spurs

If every top-prospect at Spurs had lived up to the “potential” many Spurs fans believe they have, then Spurs most probably could have won the EPL with 11 academy players. But the fact is that most top prospect never ends up being top players. Look at academies that are far better than Spurs’ – f.ex., (clubs that prey on other clubs’ academies) Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea. How many of their top prospects make it to the top? Very few.
Where are those players now after they got their chances…

Mason had 53 games for Spurs, so plenty of chances; and he started out well, and even got a England cap; but then his form dipped and was sold to Hull.
Carrol had 60 games for Spurs, so he too had plenty of games to impress. Besides, between 2011 & 2015 he was loaned out to 4 different clubs, before being sold to Swansea. Where he has exactly been brilliant.
Veljkovic is at Werder Bremen, where he’s a regular in a team that was relegated to Bundesliga 2. He’s a regular, yes, but – at 25 – not a regular at the Serbian national team.
Townsend played 50 games for Spurs, and between 2009 & 2013 he was loaned out to 9 different clubs, so he had plenty of chances to impress while at Spurs and, later, at Crystal P. He no doubt had speed and dribbling skills with a decent shot, but he clearly lacked “football intelligence”.
Bentaleb played 46 games for Spurs. Talented player but he had attitude problems, which become more obvious at Schalke; where he also did not live up to his potential.

So all the mentioned players got enough chances to shine at Spurs and even after being sold also did not shine at “lesser” clubs. It’s not always the club’s fault…

Let's just assume I concur with all of that (which I don''t btw) ......And????

Point was the accademy did their part well enough.

 

[Crockett]

With the catchment area we have, the surrounding infrastructure and the staff I don't think it is unreasonable to expect 1 player from each annual intake to make it to the first team squad.

 

[r-u-s-x]

With the catchment area we have, the surrounding infrastructure and the staff I don't think it is unreasonable to expect 1 player from each annual intake to make it to the first team squad.

That is pretty unreasonable, in that it just doesn't happen anywhere. If we did the next year has to be better than the previous to make the squad and push one out.

It's pretty much accepted that 90%+ of youth team are there to progress the ones you rate (they need a team to play and train with) and even those may not make it.

Injuries, attitude and luck play a big part in youth progression.

 

[ArcspacE]

Has Aurier fucked off yet?