You're a proper nasty piece of work aren't you. Foul voted.
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Supporters The Y Word
- Thread starter Sonofa
- Start date
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I'm literally a queer football fan, I'm exactly who this sort of action is supposed to be protecting. And while I don't love the <removed>s chanting, I recognise that it's meant as a double-entendre*, and I certainly don't agree with criminalising fans for it or think that does anything to help us.
*I normally only get those if I'm very lucky on a Friday night
*I normally only get those if I'm very lucky on a Friday night
I agree with you. However I actually think being called a <removed> pales in comparison to what I have heard Chelsea fans sing at black people, and evoking the mass murder of a race. It's a bizarre conflation. And how Baddiel can over look the hissing of the gas ovens and be so uncomfortable about what we call each other is frankly laughable.
I agree Chelsea's anti Semitism/Racisms is more virulent than our homophobia. It just does not excuse it. We should drop the RB chant
Baddiel is the lowest of the low - it is perfectly clear that he doesn't give a shit about that word, he simply uses its importance to us as a weapon to attack us, purely and singularly because he is a Chelsea fan, nothing more. Abusing your heritage in that way to score cheap points against the fans of an opposing football team really is about as low as a human being can get. Zero integrity, zero dignity. Utter scum.
I literally don’t think I’ve ever interacted with you before? What snidey comment?
But that's the thing, it's not 'our homophobia' otherwise we'd be giving it to Brighton fans every time we play them (like PLENTY other clubs' fans do)
It's outdated yes, and irrelevant seeing as the whole chant was based on an hipocryphal tale that make or may not ever have been true...
The same as I'd wager, a LOT of Chelsea fans would be aghast at being labelled Anti-Semites because of the YID thing... As far as many are concerned, YIDS ARE Tottenham fans...
Thing is, you gotta ask yourself WHY that association is there, when there are easily as many Jewish Woolwich fans nowadays than Tottenham... Why aren't THEY called YIDS?
I think we all know why....
Same as hearing some Chelsea fans getting around actually saying the word Yid by hissing instead is so missing the point as to be almost laughable!
This will sound contentious I know :
But why is being described as a Male Sex Worker ( MSW) seen as
being pejorative ?
It would only be considered pejorative if Chav fans were so unenlightened and prejudiced in their way of looking upon the world .
The Y-word and Q-word have been reclaimed by people who , rightly, renounce those words’ negative connotations. And use it in
defiance against the bigots who use these terms as slurs .
MSW are essentially ubiquitous (throughout history and pretty much everywhere on this planet ) and deserve support and solidarity frankly. It’s NOT homophobic to acknowledge their existence ( quite the opposite in fact ) .
The only people who have a problem with the term seem to be CFC supporters …. funny that , I wonder why ?
But why is being described as a Male Sex Worker ( MSW) seen as
being pejorative ?
It would only be considered pejorative if Chav fans were so unenlightened and prejudiced in their way of looking upon the world .
The Y-word and Q-word have been reclaimed by people who , rightly, renounce those words’ negative connotations. And use it in
defiance against the bigots who use these terms as slurs .
MSW are essentially ubiquitous (throughout history and pretty much everywhere on this planet ) and deserve support and solidarity frankly. It’s NOT homophobic to acknowledge their existence ( quite the opposite in fact ) .
The only people who have a problem with the term seem to be CFC supporters …. funny that , I wonder why ?
I disagree.
Any Jewish person, who may have been on the receiving end of the Y word, as an insult, at any point in their life, reserves the right to be offended by it.
If you know a Jewish person hates hearing the Y word and then continue to use it in front of them; then you are offending them.
I sat next to an older Jewish women, in the lower Paxton, during the 90's, as a season ticket holder, who told me she hated hearing the Y word.
Once she had made me aware of this I never sang it again while sitting next to her.
I then realised that singing it at any game had the potential to offend any Jewish supporters around me who I didn't know and who might not want to hear it.
It is possible to offend someone without intending to regarding this issue.
As a gentile I now refrain from it.
Levy had a pretty creditable record improving us on the football pitch BUT he can't live on that forever. He's been Chairman for 25 years, it's time to retire. 7th, 8th and probably bottom half in 3 out of 5 seasons, no record of performing well when in Europe.
But by “ reclaiming “ a word one actually negates it’s unfounded negative connotations.
Imagine if some group in society invented and used a slang term for people who enjoy listening to 60’s Soul . You’d be able to say ; yes so what I AM a “ insert invented word here “ ; and I’m very happy to be one ; now just F£&” off .
See ; don’t give these linguistic terms ( aka “ words “ ) a chance to do what the uninformed and unpleasant people who use them want them to .
TLDR : The Y-word is ultimately only anti-Semitic if used by an anti-Semite . Same as the Q-word etc .
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This word is not common parlance in the US and I won't pretend to understand the additional layers of context in the UK, but from my perspective, if you're saying you love this, you love being this, why would that be seen as insulting?
And even if I personally didn't like it, why would I think I have the right to censor others' opinions about or or tell them how they need to feel about it, that they must have the same opinion as I do, and tell them if they can't or can't sing it?
Why would I think the world has a duty to insulate me from hearing anything that makes me uncomfortable, or that I have the right to demand the world reshape itself to my particular sensibilities?
This does not make sense at all to me, and does not comport with reality in any case and is not useful as such.
And even if I personally didn't like it, why would I think I have the right to censor others' opinions about or or tell them how they need to feel about it, that they must have the same opinion as I do, and tell them if they can't or can't sing it?
Why would I think the world has a duty to insulate me from hearing anything that makes me uncomfortable, or that I have the right to demand the world reshape itself to my particular sensibilities?
This does not make sense at all to me, and does not comport with reality in any case and is not useful as such.
I disagree with some of that, but it's irrelevant anyway - I was wasn't making any comment about whether or not it's appropriate to use the word given that some people are offended by it etc, I've discussed that before on here and see no value in going over the same old ground again - my post was about David Baddiel specifically. If you listen to what he has said on this subject before, it is very obvious to me that he is NOT genuinely offended by it, he is pretending that he is purely because he is a Chelsea fan so can use our use of that word against us. Which is pretty insulting to anyone who does genuinely find that word upsetting.
“ Reb “ short for “ Rebel “ was a slur-term used by Unionists in the Civil War ; but Confederate Soldiers took it on as a badge of honour.
Hope this helps .
One of the biggest favours you can do yourself - not only as a sports fan but in life in general - is to accept that a) there will be things that you don't understand, and b) that you not understanding it has no bearing on whether other people's views are valid or not. That's the approach I take to anything like this. I don't partake myself, and I also don't get wound up about it.
100 % and
FWIW ;
I actually think that anyone who joins this forum should have to tick an
“ I agree “ box to the above statement before they’re allowed to join the fray .
David Baddiel is a Jewish man, who has probably been verbally abused, for being Jewish, at some point in his life.
I remember taking my daughter to an away game at Everton and experiencing a supporter wearing no colours, walking past us in a street about half a mile from Goodison. Nobody else was within hearing distance. He hissed just as he walked past. I am not Jewish but I was shocked that anyone would have done this to a father walking down a street in Britain with a child under the age of 10.
If Baddiel says he finds the word offensive it is the fact that he is Jewish, rather than a Chelsea supporter, which gives validity to his right to be offended.
If the objective is for people to not feel intimidated or worried about these matters you have to create a safe environment for everyone.
I agree 100% with the sentiment of Spurs supporters singing the Y word in solidarity with Jewish Spurs supporters. It is something Spurs supporters should be proud of and reflects well on the collective in general.
However; football stadiums now; compared to the 1970's and 80's, when the act of solidarity began, are filled with a totally different demographic. There are more woman of all ages, children and families in attendance.
Spurs players and supporters being referred to as y1d5 can be problematic in all sorts of situations and the ambiguity of offence being intentional, or unintentional can assist those who wish to be offensive.
I accept the average Spurs supporter singing y1d army or chanting y1dd0 means no offence at all.
This is clearly about a TV audience hearing this word being chanted, probably in another country, and not understanding what is going on here at all.
The fact that all this stuff then has to be explained just keeps the whole shitshow rumbling on.
It's a big part of THFC's identity and the majority of supporters are loud and proud of it.
It is difficult to see how this will ever be resolved in a way that satisfies everyone.
I totally disagree. If I honestly believed he was offended because he was Jewish, then I could understand your argument, but him blatantly pretending to be offended is something completely different. Or are you saying that ALL Jewish people are automatically offended by that word? Because I consider myself partly Jewish (my grandmother was Jewish), and I'm not offended by it (when used in an appropriate context of course...). I'm not saying that no Jewish people are offended by it - I'm saying just that Baddiel isn't (in my opinion having heard him talk about it).
In addition, reading your post immediately above this one - it is not as though Baddiel does "not understand what is going on here", he is perfectly capable of differentiating between 'positive' and 'negative' uses of the word as you have explained them above, yet he still wants the club and fans destroyed over any and every use of that word. That is not because he is Jewish, it is because he supports Chelsea and therefore hates Spurs, and tbh it's gobsmacking to me that anyone who has heard him talk about doesn't realise that.
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