Toby Alderweireld

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FOK said:
I get what your saying but Toby was as good as as Dier on sat! Immense
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He was brilliant on Sat, IMO his best performance in two seasons!

But it's Dier that's been covering him in all previous games and been getting it in the neck from supporters, whilst Toby has been almost a liability, losing markers, 1v1's lost and his loss of pace (wasn't that quick to being with) has been alarming (Dier's been compensating for him or being stretched as a result).
 
I think he'll be back for Woolwich, personally.

If not, at least he'll likely be back for Liverpool.

Will be a big miss at the weekend though - he was outstanding against City. Arguably his best performance for us since 2017.
 
Totti said:
I think he'll be back for Woolwich, personally.

If not, at least he'll likely be back for Liverpool.

Will be a big miss at the weekend though - he was outstanding against City. Arguably his best performance for us since 2017.
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yeah agree,

I am kind of excited to see what Rodon can do. Admittedly it would have been nice to test him vs Ludogorets etc but still, big game London derby will put some fire his belly!

He has already captained his country to be fair so lets hope the young lad is a revelation!
 
Tobys been average at best last couple of years apart from his last handful of games where he’s been superb

hoping this set back doesn’t prevent what appeared to be the return of OG Toby
 
We need him back for Liverpool, I fancy us to beat Woolwich with whatever side we put out at the moment they are fucking dreadful.
I know they raise their game in the NLD but there needs to be an inquest if we don't dick those cunts
 
Guido said:
He was brilliant on Sat, IMO his best performance in two seasons!

But it's Dier that's been covering him in all previous games and been getting it in the neck from supporters, whilst Toby has been almost a liability, losing markers, 1v1's lost and his loss of pace (wasn't that quick to being with) has been alarming (Dier's been compensating for him or being stretched as a result).
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It's funny because we have the best defence in the Prem currently, but if you listen to what people say here Toby is washed, Dier is not a CB, and Sanchez is a clown. I think Toby has been excellent personally, outside of the Everton game.
 
GGTH said:
It's funny because we have the best defence in the Prem currently, but if you listen to what people say here Toby is washed, Dier is not a CB, and Sanchez is a clown. I think Toby has been excellent personally, outside of the Everton game.
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We've yet to play against a free attacking side though, City was a test sure, but they've failed to score all season, so the "test" of previous seasons it 100% wasn't, they aren't scoring this season.

Dier has been the player that's been "on his toes" since he regained his fitness, so for me, this pre-dates this season.

People looking to pile into him because of a now ridiculous law on pens (handball), with players also falling over in order to win them (they don't get pens for fouls if they stay on their feet so who can blame them) but it boils down to this DON'T go using a defender conceding a pen as a reason to have a pop, they can't win. Look at everything else, look at their positioning, look at their 1v1 duels, look at the player next to them for the context of how a partnership is working or not.

Every player has flaws and with CB's imparticular those flaws can be equalled out if their partner can cover the flaw. We've enjoyed this with Jan and Toby for years e.g Jan the better baller, bring the ball out of defence with the ball at his feet drawing oppo onto him creating space in midfield. Toby on the other hand was the one to ping diags out to pushed up FB's. Toby used to be one of the best 1v1 defenders in the game, whereas this was Jan's biggest weakness.

Saturday's game aside Toby has been a shadow of his former self, unable to defend 1v1 and his diags once so accurate have been hit or miss. So, his strengths have been no longer his strengths whilst his weakness remained, slow on the turn, can get caught with the ball at his feet especially if pressed, the limited pace has now become no pace (Giroud out sprinting him!).

Does he have the partner to cover his weaknesses? No - Jan could no longer (wipes tear from cheek). Sanchez can cover his pace but needs to play on the right (Toby's position), doing so means we lose Toby's now less reliable (but still good) diags if played on left, ergo less on filed solutions. Dier getting up to speed as CB ALSO having to adjust to LCB (not natural to him). Rodon is an unknown to me and obviously has played yet.

Is Toby finished no of course not, he's still a good defender but he's been miles off from where he was as a consequence it's been Dier that has been the player covering all of his deficiencies whilst still adapting his game to a) being a CB b) playing on the left.

When we play propper low-block, as we did Sat, then he adds major value as his weakness aren't exposed (all defenders should find it easier, it's how Newcastle & Palace stay in games if they can do it, we've a problem if our boys can't). When we play against a side that sits deep then Toby can (has been) an issue at the back, especially as his pace has gone the ball behind him is always on, players running at him (used to be his strength) leaving his feet in knots.
 
Guido said:
We've yet to play against a free attacking side though, City was a test sure, but they've failed to score all season, so the "test" of previous seasons it 100% wasn't, they aren't scoring this season.
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City have played most of the season without a striker. Jesus was back for the Liverpool game, and they were one missed penalty from winning that, and we shut them down completely. Southampton and Everton are two good sides, with two of the best strikers, and we conceded 1 goal from open play against them, as well as one from DCL on a set piece which seems hard to avoid this season.


Guido said:
Saturday's game aside Toby has been a shadow of his former self, unable to defend 1v1
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I feel like he's done very well vs Michail Antonio in the West Ham game. If he's so bad at defending 1v1 I'd expect it to be exposed a bit more, but we've barely let in any open play goals this season.
 
I think this season's defence is summed up nicely in 3 points:

1. We've had a fairly easy run of games to date.

2. We are defending far better as a team than we did in the poch era, especially the second half

3. Our CBs are not as good as they were in the poch era, but not as bad as some feared (Dav aside).
 
Pzabbythethird said:
I think this season's defence is summed up nicely in 3 points:

1. We've had a fairly easy run of games to date.

2. We are defending far better as a team than we did in the poch era, especially the second half

3. Our CBs are not as good as they were in the poch era, but not as bad as some feared (Dav aside).
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4 - Hjojberg
 
RealCoolYid said:
Tobys been average at best last couple of years apart from his last handful of games where he’s been superb

hoping this set back doesn’t prevent what appeared to be the return of OG Toby
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I really haven’t subscribed to that. While he might not of been as good as his first years with us he was still a solid performer. I don’t think he was helped by Poch’s diamond formation. But then again, none of the defenders were!
 
GGTH said:
City have played most of the season without a striker. Jesus was back for the Liverpool game, and they were one missed penalty from winning that, and we shut them down completely. Southampton and Everton are two good sides, with two of the best strikers, and we conceded 1 goal from open play against them, as well as one from DCL on a set piece which seems hard to avoid this season.




I feel like he's done very well vs Michail Antonio in the West Ham game. If he's so bad at defending 1v1 I'd expect it to be exposed a bit more, but we've barely let in any open play goals this season.
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I've REPEATEDLY said he was BRILLIANT against City, just as I have said WE were excellent against City. This game is NOT in any doubt (but they are nowhere near the team they once were, they have stopped pressing, they don't win the ball back his up the pitch within 'x' seconds, they give space to their opponents and they don't score goals, this is their worst start to a season since they sacked Mark Hughes 12 years ago, fact). We will face tougher opponents than them in the PL this season.

I'm NOT on his back, I've not posted any shit in his thread to attest to this (I will if I think he's played appallingly, go to the Tripps thread to see what it looks like when I don't rate a player).

He's just way, way past his best. What were his strengths are slowly becoming his weakness. IMO it's been Dier that's largely been carrying him this season, he's the player doing the sprints and reacting faster.

Making claims about our defensive record, whilst we haven't played any team of quality or those who be be argued quality they've not been on form (Chavs & City) doesn't really say much (I think our draw against Chavs in League Cup was 50/50 and they were out of form struggling to bed in their new players at that time, this weekend is our BIGGEST test of the season so far, harder game than against City as they look to be hitting some kind of form, whilst City are well and truly out of form).

I think we've looked ropy defensively this season given the context of who we've played, on the whole Doherty hasn't played well, Sanchez hasn't played well and Davies hasn't played well. Toby has performed better than them but not as well as Dier, Reggie and Aurier who I think have been great.

Toby is no longer the player he was by quite some margin. His performance against City was excellent, if he didn't get injured and continued this form then he would be ramming my words down my throat, which I'd have no problems dealing with. It does suit him when we play a low-block though as his weaknesses can't be exposed.

As I've said I've not made him a target at all this season, just as I haven't with Davies, Sanchez or Doherty but that doesn't detract that I've viewed their individual performances ranging from average to poor. We still won games in which these performances took place, the result or scoreline doesn't change how I viewed them.
 
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