"Yid" chanting...

[Drewinho]

Guys, it's fairly obvious to everyone including the FA that some rival fans aren't hissing, they're telling us to be quiet, enforcing the FA's rules. Now ssshh

 

[1882]

Am I gonna have to change my username?

Yes... Milton Keynes is quite offensive to some!!

 

[bobby smith]

The cunts will still be cunts anyway.

And to put a positive spin on it, surely us non-jews saying it is good? Saying we're proud of the club's jewish background, and that it's okay to be a jew?

Tottenham hasn't got a jewish background, its was formed by christians and 98% of our fans are not jewish. It's always wrongly assumed that the club is jewish, they even said on the radio that Tottenham had a large jewish population? only 2.5 % of Haringey is jewish, 5,700 people!
Back in the early 70's away fans would make their way to Tottenham by train or car and many would pass through Stamford Hill, after seeing the orthodox jews they would make their anti jewish comments at Spurs fans. The NF were active at football grounds back then, West Ham, Chelsea, Millwall etc seemed to welcome them with open arms, they didn't last 5 minutes at Spurs which i'm very proud of.

The idiot David Baddiel got it all wrong by stating we cannot own the Yid word as the vast majority of Spurs fans are not jewish, he fails to see that the anti semetic slurs are aimed at ALL Spurs fans!! Over 40 years i have had to put up with these comments in nearly every football conversation. You can't watch a Spurs match in a pub without the Yid comments. If Spurs fans standing in solidarity with our fellow Spurs fans of all races and religions againt racist slurs is wrong, then the world is going fucking crazy. Have we earned the right to claim the yid word as our own? Too fucking right we have, it's our Spartacus stance.

I'M SPARTACUS Yid Army!

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Tbh I think the aim of the FA is part of the broader one of making football a home for families, corporates and other politically correct people who are bigger consumers in the ground and the shop, who cost less to police or steward, and who won't provoke moral outrage or 'tarnish the game'. As someone said on another forum, "they won't be happy until we clap the other team's goals". If they cared about racism there's obviously other things they could do.

I hope enough people keep singing it, I will be one of them.

 

[jimmyriggle]

Here's a question. Why is it that in the last few days the media have only sought to quote one supporters group - ours?

If this debate is about ANTI semitism and that the issue is being forced by a CHELSEA fan's complaint about people he sits near, then where the hell are the quotes from the Chelsea supporters trust? It west ham's, or Leeds?

The yid chants at spurs may be (arguably inccorrectly) based on semitism, but they certainly aren't 'anti' anything other than racism.

The debate needs to move away from being about a word to being about racist abuse. Semiology of language is a very complex matter debated by far higher minds than The average football fan/pundit or even 'intellectuals' like baddiel. We should be talking about stopping racist abuse not whether spurs are ok to celebrate their Jewish fan base with a three letter word.

 

[CLS]

I'm thinking about getting this banner made and just wanted some feedback. Does it convey the right message? Would it be allowed in grounds or is the 'yiddo' too obvious?

Now that's a damned sight better than the THST Surfer Flag!

 

[jimmyriggle]

Do we know who's defending them?
We need a fire-breathing vicious QC type to send the CPS home crying. Can we get a rich Spurs fan to fund it?

Because if a guilty precedent is set, then we're all fucked.
Plus I'm already on a police warning...

Let's just get @ sammyspurs to defend them. The prosecution will get so fucked off after 3 days of continuous arguing they will simply concede defeat.

Spoiler

Courts don't have sin bins or ignore features right?

 

[The Yinzer]

I think this is a tough one. As a Jew, the club's association with Jews is probably something that initially drew me to it. I think the non-Jewish supporters' willingness to adopt a Jewish identity is a pretty powerful statement. Spurs supporters are saying "You can call us Jews. It doesn't bother us. We would be proud to be Jews."

On the flip side, rival fans hate Spurs. Therefore they hate "Yids." Our embrace of a Jewish association gives cover to racists to say anti-Semitic things under the guise of merely being anti-Spurs. But even worse, is that people who have no anti-Semitic intent do things that would be hurtful to Jews merely because they actually are trying to be anti-Spurs. Instead of "despicable Spurs" we are "despicable Yids." Without our embrace of a Jewish identity, these people would never unwittingly do offensive things.

As adults we can all talk intelligently about these issues and try to understand people's intent. But my biggest concern with all of this relates to children who attend matches. It's a really tough conversation to have with a kid explaining why certain chants are offensive and why others are not. If someone (maybe especially a Jew) wants to take a kid to see their hero Harry Kane, should they really have to deal with all of this heavy bullshit?

So like I said, I have very mixed feelings about Yid chanting. But (and this is my cultural bias) as an American, the concept that someone could got to jail for saying something offensive is crazy to me. I want to know who is a dirty fucking racist. My ideas are better than theirs and I want to be able to debate them, and humiliate them because of their stupidity. That is how we beat racism. Not by ensuring certain words are only said in privacy where I never would have the opportunity to counter them.

 

[hersh95]

So first time poster, and have to agree with The Yinzer. Live in the states and started following EPL when my big kids were born. At the time there were only a couple of live matches on and, being Jewish, I was drawn to Spurs partially because of the "Yid" aspect. There are lots of nasty slurs but Yid has very little negative connotation in our community.

As a side note, happy to have found you guys. You have a great forum going.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I'm not Jewish but I am proud of our Jewish fans and the links between Spurs and London's Jewish community. Our Jewish support base is part of what makes us who we are (Tottenham) and is part of the culture of the club. I would say the same thing for the multicultural nature of our fanbase in general. I am also proud that we have experienced very few internal problems with racism, that an organisation called "Spurs against the Nazis" existed, that we managed to chase the National Front off our terraces, unlike other London clubs.

Baddiel says, "the semiotic underneath the chant (yid) is: "We are so proud of being Spurs fans, we'll even embrace being called Yids, of all things, if it identifies us with the club"". I disagree. To me the semiotic underneath the chant is "we don't give a fuck if you call us yids, we are proud of our Jewish fans and our non-Jewish fans alike". I think Baddiel is likely reading some sort of patronising or insulting meaning to the chant due to his dislike of Spurs...and perhaps (if we are to psychoanalyse him!) also due- on a deeper level- to his conflicting emotions towards supporting a club such as Chelsea, with their racist and fascist elements amongst the fanbase.

I don't have time for Baddiel or Herbert. It's not their call to make. I do have time for any Jewish Spurs fan though, and their take on it. I respect all the views I've read here from Jewish Spurs fans, whether pro or anti 'yid'. I think ultimately it is up to them, and if a majority of Jewish Spurs fans wanted it to stop then I'd like to think I would stop singing it out of respect for them. As far as I am aware, the majority of Jewish Spurs fans are happy with the Y word and how it is used amongst Spurs fans. For this reason I will continue to use it. However, I would welcome a more in depth study into the matter.

This may seem harsh as those who are offended or who do not like it will be forced to suffer in silence. However, I think that we can't ban a word or song based on the odd person being offended, because I think the atmosphere as a whole would really suffer; as others have said in this thread, almost anything could be banned. Seeing as 'yid' is an important part of the culture of the club, seeing that it tells a story of anti-fascism which is uniquely Tottenham, seeing the evidence that its use is welcomed by lots of Jewish fans, as well as lots of non-Jewish fans...the only thing that would change my mind would be evidence that a majority of Jewish Spurs fans would like it to stop.

Having said all that, I would also say that it is a sensitive, complicated issue (much more complicated than many people think, including Herbert and Baddiel) and I may be wrong. But the above is my own opinion, at this point in time.

 

[Eskimo]

Ledley King? He already starred in Baddiels video.

To be fair ledley didnt seem to have a clue what he was talking about, he could well have been talking about the perils of CAKE.

 

[1882]

Racist thoughts and action says far more about the person they come from than the person they are directed at?

Using the word "YID -YIDO" can not be accepted at any level.

There must be an alternative!!

But that's precisely the point... When said/sung at WHL (by home fans at any rate) it is NOT fuelled by any racist thought or action whatsoever!
The context in which a racist says it, might be.... But then again, the context of ANYTHING someone who has racist tendencies and thoughts would most probably be offensive.

The other point that has been made, is that the origin (the ORIGINAL ORIGIN) of the word was not deemed offensive, almost the opposite...

It's only during relatively modern (post-war) history that the far right/neo-Nazis and even more recently (40 years or so) that many small minded ignorant football fans of certain clubs also took it upon themselves to CHANGE the meaning into something so negative....

Surely we're allowed our word back?
Or would people rather that once it's tarnished by scum, it stays tarnished, for ever?

 

[AbsoluteBobbins]

Not wanting to get on my high horse but this has really fucked me off so much!

Here is a telegraph blog by Spurs fan and editor of the Jewish Chronicle Stephen Pollard on why this is just bollocks

Here’s a new entrant to the pantheon of not-so-great ideas: to protect Jews from anti-Semitism, the Football Association has decided that thousands of Jews should be prosecuted for hate speech. (can't post the link, sorry)

Genius or what?

I’m a Spurs fan. I’m also Jewish. For various reasons – some geographic, some historic – we Jewish Spurs fans think of Spurs as "the Jewish team". Yes, we know lots of Jews support other teams. Yes, we know lots of Spurs fans aren’t Jewish. But to a Jewish Spurs fan – and to plenty of non-Jewish Spurs fans, too – we are indeed the Jewish team.

And as part of that identification, we call ourselves – proudly – the Yid Army. Not all of us, of course. But a very sizeable proportion.

It stems partly as a way of reclaiming the word Yid from those who shout it as an insult, in much the same way as some gay people call themselves queer.

It’s our word, and we take it as a badge of pride.

And when a player joins us, he becomes a Yiddo. Hence the chant, when Jermain Defoe scores for us, "Jermain Defoe, he’s a Yiddo".

As a Jew, I am genuinely uplifted when I hear tens of thousands of people – Jews and non-Jews alike – chanting the Y word.

Apparently, however, I am guilty of hate speech and should be handed a criminal record and banned from the games.

On Tuesday, the FA’s general secretary, Alex Horne, said that the word Yid “is likely to be considered offensive by the reasonable observer and considers the term to be inappropriate in a football setting.”

He went on to argue that “use of the term in a public setting could amount to a criminal offence, and leave those fans liable to prosecution and potentially a lengthy football banning order.”

I despair of these people. Is the general secretary of the FA really so deaf to context that he cannot tell the difference between people shouting the word as a term of endearment and pride, and a racist skinhead who means it as a form hate.

It’s the same with the n-word. If a black man or woman chooses to be described in such a way (I don’t want to spell it out precisely because it is so easy to take such an argument out of context) then is he or she guilty of hate speech?

Whereas if a BNP member is chanting "N*****s out", then clearly it is hate speech.

The point is pretty basic. Context matters.

I want to call my team the Yid Army. I want to our players to be called – by me and other Spurs fans, because it’s our right and our pride – Yiddos.

But when it’s spat out, alongside a hiss to mimic the gas chambers, then it’s hate speech.

It’s really not difficult to spot the difference.

I might take the FA a bit more seriously if they paid the slightest attention to that Chelsea hissing. Hissing might not be "speech" but it’s intention is as clear as any word.

Not a peep from the FA, however.

Instead, they are arguing that the best way to protect Jews from anti-Semitic abuse is to criminalise some of us.

Thanks, but I’ll look elsewhere for protection.

 

[bensonrecon]

This could be said about many words, children of a younger age have been using the word 'Gay' without really understanding of its recent past history. But it's still received as offensive. If I were to ask my son to give me a list of racist terms against black people, he would struggle because the words/meanings have been lost. isn't that a good thing.

Most references on line make referance to Tottenham Hotspur when you look up the word Yid or Yiddo.
But we don't use it in association to the Jewish culture or community? I appreciate supporters do not like being told what to do or to say or change. I would be the same but on this I feel -
we need to take the higher moral ground and lead by example.

Quite apt you should mention the term "gay" as I just finished reading this. Don't be fooled by the URL Spurs feature heavily

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...me-a-dyke.-Only-my-close-gay-friends-can.html

 

[Yorkshire_Spurs]

David Baddiel has done wonders for our home atmosphere.

 

[LLB Part Deux]

Interestingly enough, our next opponents are Cardiff who celebrate the fact they've been abused as "sheep shaggers" by bringing inflatable sheep to their games. I can only assume that the FA will charge Cardiff fans with being racist towards Welsh people (after all, you don't have to be Welsh to be a Cardiff fan)

 

[1882]

I am SO glad you brought up the Swastika... as it PERFECTLY encapsulates what happens when one group of far right cunts (in this case, The Nazis) take a Symbol that was originally a sign of peace and harmony, and belonged to Hindus...

Why look, someone's got a Swastika on their HOUSE... and just look at those Nazi scum hanging a Swastika flag... oh, no hang on, it's alright Mr Baddeil, they're all Indians! So you can stop being offended on behalf of the Hindu people... and put your camera and your Brother away, you're not doing another film... maybe you could call it The 'S' Symbol... and get Nick Griffin & Tommy Robinson to speak up at how this offensive imagary must be banned, because they're reminding all the decent white 'gawd Blimey' English citizens of the war!!

Point being, Yid was taken from its' Jewish origins, and contorted, defaced and hurled back at us as a form of abuse... are people saying they REALLY want to forever associate the EVIL with a word/symbol, rather than the positive?

 

[jimmyriggle]

Via a friend of mine's Facebook page:

Some FA, met police and baddiel approved songs for today.

Jermaine Defoe, he plays for a club that traditionally has a large Jewish element in their following

Who who who let the fanbase with the higher than the average percentage of Jewish followers out

Partially Jewish fanbase army!

Sing up!

 

[1882]

It's OK, it's OK everyone... SSN said it was all us (apologies, as i've only just read this)

Tottenham supporters defied the threat of arrest to chant the 'Y' word in large numbers during their side's 3-0 defeat to West Ham.
Fans of both London clubs were warned in the run-up to Sunday's Premier League clash at White Hart Lane that singing the word could result in their arrest.
But, while there was no repeat of the offensive chanting from a small section of the away end which marred last season's corresponding fixture, the home contingent repeatedly sang the word in question.
Defiantly chanting "we'll sing what we want", Spurs supporters appeared to escape arrest in any kind of significant numbers, although one fan was held on suspicion of committing a section five public order offence.
Tottenham have traditionally been associated with a Jewish fanbase, and their fans claim using the 'Y' word is a way of reclaiming it.
The Football Association has attempted to outlaw use of the word in stadiums.

In case you missed it; SSN says:

But, while there was no repeat of the offensive chanting from a small section of the away end which marred last season's corresponding fixture

Hang on,YES THERE FUCKING WAS!! THEY SIMPLY REPLACED THE NAME HITLER!
Oh, no... no hang on, my mistake... "Viva Lazio, 'Hes coming for you... WE CAN'T SAY HIS NAME he's coming for you... Big Nose, You've Got a Big Nose, and Hisssssss" are absolutely fine, and perfectly acceptable 'Banter' now! Thank FUCK they didn't say YID or else the Police might have had to do something, seeing as THAT'S THE ONLY CUNTING WORD THEY WERE LISTENING OUT FOR!...
I've fucking had it with how this how sorry issue has been raised, handled and dealt with.... so fuck it;

HEY DAVID RABBIDDEIL, GUESS WHAT, I'M THE ONE AND ONLY NON-EXISTENT PROUD JEWISH SPURS FAN.... AND GUESS WHAT ELSE...?

YID ARMY!!!

SUCK ON THAT YOU PRICK, AND GO HIDE IN AMONGST YOUR BELOVED CLUB'S NEO-NAZI FANS!
YOU MAKE ME ASHAMED OF MY RELIGION WITH HYPOCRITICAL CUNTS LIKE YOU REPRESENTING IT!!!
THE IRONY IS (i'm still shouting, aren't I?) IS THAT I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD, HE'S THE NON-EXISTENT ONE AROUND HERE.... BUT BELIEVE YOU ME, THERE ARE PLENTY OF JEWISH SPURS FANS!!
(too much? OK, there's a slight chance I may have forgotten the original point I was making here....)

 

[CLS]

I'd join in with most songs but I couldn't sing "we're proud to be jews". Wouldn't feel right considering I'm not jewish

Me neither, I'm a Catholic, but I see the purpose of calling myself a Yid - which I'm very happy to do in solidarity with those who do suffer from the same disgusting anti-Semitism targeted at Tottenham fans - and saying I'm proud to be a Jew to be similar. I think the important distinction isn't that the person chanting that is Jewish, but that they don't find being associated with Jews as shameful and we completely reject that hatred of them - we love Jews as our fellow Tottenham brothers and sisters and are proud of each and every one of our fans. We don't see ourselves as 2 groups, Jewish and non-Jewish, let alone with one having superiority. We're one Tottenham. We're ALL Yids, and anyone who has a problem with that can fuck right off.