Levy / ENIC

[stevee]

I'll answer that when you acknowledge the validity of my point, that there was all that CL money that surely wasn't budgeted for as it would have been financially irresponsible to expect that continued windfall. Without conceding that point then this 200M you are asking about now doesn't really exist.

Ok, we did receive @ £400m from CL football over, say, 4 years.

Happy?

So what happened to the £200m we didn't spend?

 

[stevee]

Stevee, your problem is that your making the issue an "us against them" thing. We all support Spurs, any logical person can praise the owners for what they have done but also want them out or be frustrated with them and want better from them for the continued faults on the football side.

The problem is, you view the situation with bias, you are all in on the owners but you can't see that the majority of people who have complaints against them aren't this extremist group you view them as.

And by viewing them as this extremist group of people you yourself are also becoming an extreme apologist on the other side, drawing battle lines with fellow supporters whilst defending corporate billionaires who don't give a single solitary fuck about you and you can't see it.

Take a step back and realise that a grey area exists.

Wtf are you talking about.

I have repeatedly agreed that 2018 TW was wrong, that we need a DOF, that we should be able to invest heavily from now on and if not I'm will change to Levy out.

But apparently I'm the biased one.
Yeah OK.

Edit : As you are unbiased, perhaps you can post a list of the things that Levy/Enic have done right?

Edit, Edit : The above edit didn't appear first time, apologies

 

[Incomplete_usernam]

Wtf are you talking about.

I have repeatedly agreed that 2018 TW was wrong, that we need a DOF, that we should be able to invest heavily from now on and if not I'm will change to Levy out.

But apparently I'm the biased one.
Yeah OK.

Well what are you actually disagreeing with then? Because that's literally what the majority of people who want ENIC out are saying?

 

[stevee]

Well what are you actually disagreeing with then? Because that's literally what the majority of people who want ENIC out are saying?

The majority of people are saying "spend more money" with no thought as to where that money is coming from.
Although tbf not all of them.

We spend what we make (see world record profits, of which we spent every penny).

Any chance of the list of things that you think Levy/Enic have done well?

 

[stevee]

Well what are you actually disagreeing with then? Because that's literally what the majority of people who want ENIC out are saying?

The majority of people are saying "spend more money" with no thought as to where that money is coming from.
Although tbf not all of them.

We spend what we make (see world record profits, of which we spent every penny).

Any chance of the list of things that you think Levy/Enic have done well?

You might not have seen the edit on my previous post asking for the things Levy/Enic have done right

 

[Incomplete_usernam]

The majority of people are saying "spend more money" with no thought as to where that money is coming from.
Although tbf not all of them.

We spend what we make (see world record profits, of which we spent every penny).

Any chance of the list of things that you think Levy/Enic have done well?

No, the majority of people are pissed off because we pay the highest prices in the league and now have a chairman saying "if we don't make the CL we will have less money to spend" how is this acceptable in any circumstance? Like I said we should be spending more to get back to that level, not less.

Also, the majority of people want us to spend more money because, even if Mr Levy doesn't believe it, that's how you win trophies, good recruitment and lots of money spent.

Basically, when people say "I want us to spend more money" it's met with "Where the fuck do you think that money is going to come from?"

But when you say "Ok, well, if ENIC don't want to, or can't afford to, spend to make us competitive then we should get new owners who can" which is then met with "You're a shit supporter, ENIC deserve more time to make us competitive, anybody who wants them out is a cunt" etc etc.

Do you not see the issue here? The people who defend the owners literally do so in bad faith because they leave no room for complaint whatsoever, they put the owners BEFORE the club, that is a fact at this juncture and a very obvious one and it's very sad.

I keep seeing this "we spent every penny of the profits" Yeah? On what? Can you show me where those funds were distributed? Because as far as I see, it isn't into the team on the pitch where it counts because we are ALWAYS left short and the simple fact is, the money made versus the money spent on transfers simply doesn't add up.

That money is put into infrastructure, the thing that increases ENICs equity, the thing that benefits THEM not the supporters, do you not see that?

I have praised ENIC for running a good profitable business and praised them for building the stadium and other infastructure (even if it was for their own benefit in the long run) and for turning us into a regular euro outfit but the reality is, why should that be enough? Why is it that people believe we should just accept that?

Should we just roll over and have our bellies tickled now because they built a stadium and some infrastructure which makes them huge profits whilst the team gets neglected and we fail to win a trophy for another decade?

 

[stevee]

No, the majority of people are pissed off because we pay the highest prices in the league and now have a chairman saying "if we don't make the CL we will have less money to spend" how is this acceptable in any circumstance? Like I said we should be spending more to get back to that level, not less.

Also, the majority of people want us to spend more money because, even if Mr Levy doesn't believe it, that's how you win trophies, good recruitment and lots of money spent.

Basically, when people say "I want us to spend more money" it's met with "Where the fuck do you think that money is going to come from?"

But when you say "Ok, well, if ENIC don't want to, or can't afford to, spend to make us competitive then we should get new owners who can" which is then met with "You're a shit supporter, ENIC deserve more time to make us competitive, anybody who wants them out is a cunt" etc etc.

Do you not see the issue here? The people who defend the owners literally do so in bad faith because they leave no room for complaint whatsoever, they put the owners BEFORE the club, that is a fact at this juncture and a very obvious one and it's very sad.

I keep seeing this "we spent every penny of the profits" Yeah? On what? Can you show me where those funds were distributed? Because as far as I see, it isn't into the team on the pitch where it counts because we are ALWAYS left short and the simple fact is, the money made versus the money spent on transfers simply doesn't add up.

That money is put into infrastructure, the thing that increases ENICs equity, the thing that benefits THEM not the supporters, do you not see that?

I have praised ENIC for running a good profitable business and praised them for building the stadium and other infastructure (even if it was for their own benefit in the long run) and for turning us into a regular euro outfit but the reality is, why should that be enough? Why is it that people believe we should just accept that?

Should we just roll over and have our bellies tickled now because they built a stadium and some infrastructure which makes them huge profits whilst the team gets neglected and we fail to win a trophy for another decade?

Good Post.

The one thing I'll say is people keep quoting the "world record profits" from 2019 and using that as a criticism of Levy.

They conveniently leave out the fact that we spent all of that on players, I. E. On the pitch, on the playing side.

They also forget that the stadium loan was due to be paid back in full by 2022 (I think, if not within a couple of more years) so we couldn't spend as we would have liked until that debt was put into long term. This only happened in 2019, hence the increase in spending.

You only have to look at the accounts to see that a) we aren't hoarding vast sums of profit, or b) spending it any more on infrastructure.

It appears that you are in the camp of "spend more money" regardless of how we pay

It is from now that I will judge Levy/Enic on there spending

 

[Devanteswing]

I'm not pro or anti levy. He has his faults but does some great things too.

But how does it not wind you up when he starts banging on about spending money doesnt mean success as he charges the highest ticket prices in Europe. That's some bare faced cheek right there.

 

[stevee]

I'm not pro or anti levy. He has his faults but does some great things too.

But how does it not wind you up when he starts banging on about spending money doesnt mean success as he charges the highest ticket prices in Europe. That's some bare faced cheek right there.

I'll agree with that in part.

Look at successful teams and they have all spent big.
On the other hand smaller clubs have spent big and remained shite.

It's the quality of players that counts not the price. That is our biggest failing, identifying players
None of us would of valued VVD at £60m, but it cant be disputed that he's had a huge affect on Liverpool.

We are never going to buy ready made players, though we should, which means every transfer we make will be a gamble

 

[rhenkt]

We've actually spent quite a lot the last couple transfer windows. Tanguy, Gio, Gedsen, Steven...that's pushing 200 million in just two windows if we buy Gedsen. And it's not like we had a huge sale like Bale in that time either.

Yes we've failed in previous windows, but we have spent a pretty penny the last couple. Maybe just not on the right players, although we'll have to see on that.

 

[Devanteswing]

I'll agree with that in part.

Look at successful teams and they have all spent big.
On the other hand smaller clubs have spent big and remained shite.

It's the quality of players that counts not the price. That is our biggest failing, identifying players
None of us would of valued VVD at £60m, but it cant be disputed that he's had a huge affect on Liverpool.

We are never going to buy ready made players, though we should, which means every transfer we make will be a gamble

I think your post sums up my biggest frustration.

This latest appointment suggests that were going away from what brought us from the dance. We should have waited till the summer for in a DOF and offered Nanglesmann a fortune.

I like the policy of developing players. Buying the willians of the world maybe glamorous but there's nothing quite as exciting as buying the unknown and hoping they come good.

 

[78Spur]

There's a mixed bag here....

Investing in infrastructure is not just benefitting ENIC, you create a better environment for the players and fans, just remember the portacabin set up at West Ham and imagine what set up would appeal to a player more? To just say that ENIC are investing to make an immediate return. The real flaw in this idea is that if they were going to sell, why not do that when planning permission for the new ground was granted and the Champions League was secured for the Wembley season, so much additional potential value then.

So my take is that ENIC have to sell at the point Spurs are strong on field squad and there are additional income streams for someone to buy in to, there is no knowing who would buy the club and why they buy it if ENIC were to sell it. The likely outcome is that they will stay, run the club as a business ad inifinitim because it is a good business and they will only sell if that ceases to be the case.

Wanting Levy/ENIC out is tricky because it is not like 'anyone but Levy' is a better alternative. To view them in the perspective of lack of silverware is as disproportionate as to view them as not being a crazy overspending Leeds, both the view that ENIC is a busted flush or athe best club custodian of all time are both extremes and basically unrepresentative of what ENIC are.

ENIC are pretty good, they've secured the club and they've given it a footing to being a major Premier League club for the future. They have made errors of judgement on player transfers, when to sell, when to strengthen and who to choose. We are paying more to watch games and season tickets are getting pricier, ENIC deserve criticism and holding to account but they deserve the right to turn things around and they and Jose need the summer transfer window to rebuild and it is not going to help anyone complaining of the self induced transfer ban as you can't change that, they can come the close of this somewhat calamatous season!

 

[John Thomas]

Levy builds a stadium that gives us extra revenue streams and people on here use it as a tool to bash him with.

It's almost like you believe Levy actually constructed the stadinm himself and paid for it out of his own bank account as a gift for the wonderful Spurs supporters.

When what he actually did was oversee the construction of a Multi Sports and Entertainment Complex in which we currently have the role as Anchor Tenants.

A Multi Sports and Entertainment Complex designed to rake in huge profits and revenue streams for ENIC that is actually being paid for over 3 decades not by Daniel Levy, but,among others, us, the supporters.

 

[Incomplete_usernam]

I'll agree with that in part.

Look at successful teams and they have all spent big.
On the other hand smaller clubs have spent big and remained shite.

It's the quality of players that counts not the price. That is our biggest failing, identifying players
None of us would of valued VVD at £60m, but it cant be disputed that he's had a huge affect on Liverpool.

We are never going to buy ready made players, though we should, which means every transfer we make will be a gamble

We would, under better ownership, that's my point mate, price isn't the problem and frankly, it's not that I want us just to spend and don't care where it comes from but that I just want us to act like a big fucking football club rather than West Ham with a nice stadium.

If we want to ACT like a big club we have to start showing we are that in the market and with our scouting, where it counts, on the pitch.

 

[Doom Funk]

We act like a big club when it comes to charging the fans and that’s it

 

[stevee]

It's almost like you believe Levy actually constructed the stadinm himself and paid for it out of his own bank account as a gift for the wonderful Spurs supporters.

When what he actually did was oversee the construction of a Multi Sports and Entertainment Complex in which we currently have the role as Anchor Tenants.

A Multi Sports and Entertainment Complex designed to rake in huge profits and revenue streams for ENIC that is actually being paid for over 3 decades not by Daniel Levy, but,among others, us, the supporters.

So we're not going to get the profits from the extra events then?

It wasn't built to enable us to compete with the extra capacity?

The revenue stream profits are going to us.
Did you even read the THST report

 

[stevee]

We would, under better ownership, that's my point mate, price isn't the problem and frankly, it's not that I want us just to spend and don't care where it comes from but that I just want us to act like a big fucking football club rather than West Ham with a nice stadium.

If we want to ACT like a big club we have to start showing we are that in the market and with our scouting, where it counts, on the pitch.

Scouting, yep agree with that.

What do you mean "act like a big club" in the market?

 

[Doom Funk]

We have had champions league revenue for the last 4 years and have ended up with our worst squad in two decades

 

[stevee]

It's almost like you believe Levy actually constructed the stadinm himself and paid for it out of his own bank account as a gift for the wonderful Spurs supporters.

When what he actually did was oversee the construction of a Multi Sports and Entertainment Complex in which we currently have the role as Anchor Tenants.

A Multi Sports and Entertainment Complex designed to rake in huge profits and revenue streams for ENIC that is actually being paid for over 3 decades not by Daniel Levy, but,among others, us, the supporters.

As usual the LOB use the new stadium to beat the owners with.

It gives us extra revenue from increased capacity and extra events, but this apparently is a bad thing.

You couldn't make it up

 

[John Thomas]

So we're not going to get the profits from the extra events then?

It wasn't built to enable us to compete with the extra capacity?

The revenue stream profits are going to us.
Did you even read the THST report

Do you still believe in Father Christmas, Stevee?