Heung-Min Son (손흥민)

[Mrs Perryman]

We haven't seen the best of Sonny since the restart, but that can be aimed at all our players, TBF. They all need a run of games to get back into the swing. Trouble is, we weren't that great before lockdown, and we haven't got many games to get any sort of rhythm going. Best thing all round is to write this season off and hope for better next.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

Clynelish and icymanipulator - pack it in or take this to a thread I'm not going to read. Thanks

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

Mrs Perryman arrives...

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

We haven't seen the best of Sonny since the restart, but that can be aimed at all our players, TBF. They all need a run of games to get back into the swing. Trouble is, we weren't that great before lockdown, and we haven't got many games to get any sort of rhythm going. Best thing all round is to write this season off and hope for better next.

He's in one of those cold streaks Mrs P we know he does it. 19 games a season he's the best player on the pitch the other he may as well not be on it.

No doubt he's also not 100% after the injury then having to do military service farther then rest. Be back to his best soon hopefully

 

[Claud601]

Mrs Perryman arrives...

Which episode was that ?

 

[Claud601]

He's in one of those cold streaks Mrs P we know he does it. 19 games a season he's the best player on the pitch the other he may as well not be on it.

No doubt he's also not 100% after the injury then having to do military service farther then rest. Be back to his best soon hopefully

On Sunday ffs please

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

Which episode was that ?

God knows. I know it’s a bureau de change clip from The Day Today.

 

[Airfixx]

Which episode was that ?

One of the first couple.... Maybe the first.

"This is not a knocking shope, this is a high class bureau de change!!!!"

 

[TimothéeAtouba]

He's in one of those cold streaks Mrs P we know he does it. 19 games a season he's the best player on the pitch the other he may as well not be on it.

No doubt he's also not 100% after the injury then having to do military service farther then rest. Be back to his best soon hopefully

We’ve been here many times with Son.

And every time he turned it around eventually and went on a massive purple patch to shut me up. He’s about as streaky as they come and that’s just who he is.

I’m not worried about him at all, his form will be back, the only concern is Mou is playing him much further back on the left which is not helping him getting involved.

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

We’ve been here many times with Son.

And every time he turned it around eventually and went on a massive purple patch to shut me up. He’s about as streaky as they come and that’s just who he is.

I’m not worried about him at all, his form will be back, the only concern is Mou is playing him much further back on the left which is not helping him getting involved.

The way I look at it if he was as a good as he is on his great days even 3/4 of the time he would be at Madrid. Like you say he's been like it his whole career.

But yeah I don't think it's helping him but unfortunately until we get a proper set of fullbacks and DM we need eveyone back to defend.

 

[bus-conductor]

He's in one of those cold streaks Mrs P we know he does it. 19 games a season he's the best player on the pitch the other he may as well not be on it.

No doubt he's also not 100% after the injury then having to do military service farther then rest. Be back to his best soon hopefully

19 games? You can count the games where he's actually really good, all game, on one hand. He's produces the odd moment of something really good in about 15 games (which lets face it, is pretty productive by this lot's standard), but the vast majority of games he's bumbling around, misplacing 2 yard passes, and his pressing and defensive work is probably the worst of any of our regular players (imagine how bad it must be for Lloris to berate the loveable one on the pitch).

 

[Yorkshire Yid]

19 games? You can count the games where he's actually really good, all game, on one hand. He's produces the odd moment of something really good in about 15 games (which lets face it, is pretty productive by this lots standard), but the vast majority of games he's bumbling around, misplacing 2 yard passes, and his pressing and defensive work is probably the worst of any of our regular players (imagine how bad it must be for Lloris to berate the loveable one on the pitch).

Way to harsh. On his bad days yes but for long periods he's carried this team and for a winger he has a goal or assist every 2 games so his numbers are about right for being good 50% off the time.

And defending ain't his game we know this but it's not like he has no work ethic he's not as good as Moura but Moura is even more inconsistent

 

[Clynelish]

You probably want 1 of them up your crack hey?

 

[SonPerišić]

We’ve been here many times with Son.

And every time he turned it around eventually and went on a massive purple patch to shut me up. He’s about as streaky as they come and that’s just who he is.

I’m not worried about him at all, his form will be back, the only concern is Mou is playing him much further back on the left which is not helping him getting involved.

Agree, and to add to your point, his role in the team has huge impact on triggering 'purple patch'

He has always been 'consistently' good whenever he played upfront as a striker.
it's not a coincident that Son's 'purple patch' always starts in absence of kane .
The team also did very well with Son upfront, beating top teams in Europe and has very good record in the league too, but he always get dropped back to left whenever Kane comes back from injury.

The guy can use both feet very well, has pace to out run most CBs, and is dangerous front of goal. You don't isolate him in the left and use him like a wingback.

 

[Airfixx]

Agree, and to add to your point, his role in the team has huge impact on triggering 'purple patch'

He has always been 'consistently' good whenever he played upfront as a striker.
it's not a coincident that Son's 'purple patch' always starts in absence of kane .
The team also did very well with Son upfront, beating top teams in Europe and has very good record in the league too, but he always get dropped back to left whenever Kane comes back from injury.

The guy can use both feet very well, has pace to out run most CB, and is dangerous front of goal. You don't isolate him in the left and use him like a wingback.

Look, he's not our CFwd.....

Son's not a better CFwd than Kane

He's fine as a LWFwd.

Our current manager wants more defensively from him; but that doesn't mean he's being played like a wingback.

Regardless, he blew hot and cold under the last manager too who never truly played him as a CF even when Kane was out... When that was the case we played a false 9 system that often utilised Lamela or Lucas as the F9, but largely relied upon movement and interchanging between the front 4.

 

[SonPerišić]

Our current manager wants more defensively from him; but that doesn't mean he's being played like a wingback.

We use 3 back with Davis, Dier(Jan), Toby. Aurier is RWB, and we have no LWB. Davis is used more like a CB than LB. THere's no LB in this system, and because of this, he does play like a wingback majority of the time.
If he was truely LW Forward, Hugo wouldn't be mad at Son for not tracking back.
Do You think true LWF like Hazard, Neymar, and Ribery would get criticized in same situation?
Son's role here is mix of WF and LB. To me that's a wing back.

Son's not a better CFwd than Kane

Kane is one of the best striker and best target man in the world i agree, but he's really ineffective in current situation where no one can provide him with any service. If your tactic is to use Kane as a target man as we are doing right now, i really don't see how offense is gonna improve.

Son may not be better CFwd than Kane, but he will be more effective than kane in fast counter at least... that's if he was further up forward.

 

[Airfixx]

We use 3 back with Davis, Dier(Jan), Toby. Aurier is RWB, and we have no LWB. Davis is used more like a CB than LB. THere's no LB in this system, and because of this, he does play like a wingback majority of the time.
If he was truely LW Forward, Hugo wouldn't be mad at Son for not tracking back.
Do You think true LWF like Hazard, Neymar, and Ribery would get criticized in same situation?
Son's role here is mix of WF and LB. To me that's a wing back.

You're trying to portray Son tracking back to help on occasion as the same as Danny Rose in 2016 (i.e. playing as an ACTUAL LWB!)... That's bogus. We don't even play a back 3 in a traditional sense; we play a back 4 with one FB taking on MUCH more attacking emphasis than the other whom is often supplemented by a CM (typically Sissoko)... The upshot is Ben is almost always in range of the LB position so Son is never called upon to patrol the left flank solo like a WB such as Walker & Rose were when we played an actual back 3/5 system.

Like I've already noted, Son was just as hot and cold when played wide left under Poch. This whole 'Son as WB is killing him' thing is a bit moot anyway for 2 reasons.

Kane is one of the best striker and best target man in the world i agree, but he's really ineffective in current situation where no one can provide him with any service. If your tactic is to use Kane as a target man as we are doing right now, i really don't see how offense is gonna improve.

Son may not be better CFwd than Kane, but he will be more effective than kane in fast counter at least... that's if he was further up forward

Well, combining the two underlined comments of yours suggests that Kane isn't the issue. Similarly you're continuing to play off this notion that Son is stuck somewhere in our defensive half which isn't that case more than a few times per half.

Kane as CF in a counter system allows the ball to 'stick' further up the pitch; in turn allowing the pace of the wider players to come into play and exploit the more spacious areas and still - where applicable - cut inside and attack the FBs or get a shot off.

There's no way in an EPL where at least 2/3s of defenses sit deep on a team like Spurs; that over the course of a season Son would be routinely productive if consistently played centrally; nor do I see how much further forward you expect to play him..... Lastly, without a barrage of defense splitting passes from the CM or CAM areas (which aren't regularly happening atm; period), what do you even expect him to be running onto centrally all game?

 

[SonPerišić]

Kane as CF in a counter system allows the ball to 'stick' further up the pitch; in turn allowing the pace of the wider players to come into play and exploit the more spacious areas and still - where applicable - cut inside and attack the FBs or get a shot off.

There's no way in an EPL where at least 2/3s of defenses sit deep on a team like Spurs; that over the course of a season Son would be routinely productive if consistently played centrally; nor do I see how much further forward you expect to play him..... Lastly, without a barrage of defense splitting passes from the CM or CAM areas (which aren't regularly happening atm; period), what do you even expect him to be running onto centrally all game?

Sounds all good, but in reality, this hasn't work at all. Son is too deep in our own half so he falls behind in counter attack; Aurier gets balls in open spaces, but he could never puts good crosses in. Moura just is not critical and makes too much mistake in transition.

This team has pretty good winning record with just Son upfront, that's even without Kane. Poch once played Son upfront, with Kane dropping back #10 this season. We won 4-0.
It's worth a try.

 

[Airfixx]

Sounds all good, but in reality, this hasn't work at all. Son is too deep in our own half so he falls behind in counter attack; Aurier gets balls in open spaces, but he could never puts good crosses in. Moura just is not critical and makes too much mistake in transition.

He's not playing LWB so stop pretending otherwise. A wealth of wide players have been asked to help out defensively under Mourinho over the years... IF he can't cope with this this perhaps he's not the pacey athlete you make him out to be?

it's similarly pointless critiquing the whole team on the basis of it helping create the desire for Son to play as CF... It won't..... We have one... One of the best #9s in the world.

This team has pretty good winning record with just Son upfront, that's even without Kane. Poch once played Son upfront, with Kane dropping back #10 this season. We won 4-0.
It's worth a try.

Looks, whatever problems we have as a team won't be solved by putting Son up front.

FYI: Kane wasn't played as a #10 in that game vs Palace.

Also noted from that match report on 16/09/19:

"Son had not scored in the Premier League since the beginning of April during last season, after he seemed to be on a terrific run of form"

That's 2 months + without an EPL goal..... That was under a different manager and different tactics. What's more, that included over a month at the end of the 18/19 season WITHOUT Kane (who didn't return until the CL final).

"Terrific form" followed by 2 month+ drought..... You see the pattern?

 

[SonPerišić]

"Son had not scored in the Premier League since the beginning of April during last season, after he seemed to be on a terrific run of form"

That's 2 months + without an EPL goal..... That was under a different manager and different tactics. What's more, that included over a month at the end of the 18/19 season WITHOUT Kane (who didn't return until the CL final).

"Terrific form" followed by 2 month+ drought..... You see the pattern?
[/QUOTE]


Beginning of april last year, without Kane, Son scored 3 goals in champions league (april 2019) So he didn't have drought in whole competition. And at that time, the team was more focused on CL, and Son was rested in some of those league game if i remember correctly. So he actually play well in that month.
And other month, Son played Asian game, so he missed many game.
So yes, you will have goal drought, if you miss many games.

Man...It's actually getting exhausting going back and forth with you

SO...