The “They’re really going to have a World Cup in QATAR?” Thread

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stevee said:
The FA has issued a statement on the reasons for taking the knee but you have chosen to disregard it, which is your right.

However the FA, as a body, should boycott the World Cup if they believe in their own words.
As someone else alluded to, would the FA send a team to a country where black people were discriminated against by the laws of that country.

No they wouldn't, but because its "only" gay people being discriminated against, its OK to send a team.

As I said at the start it's hypocrisy of the highest order.
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No I've not disregarded the Football associations statement. I've just focused on the words of the men kneeling Mings Henderson who have specifically referenced why they are doing it.The're not trying to change the world steeve, just their world. This to my mind is both pragmatic sensible and achievable. That the don't do something else about some place else also dose not make them hypocrites.

We clearly see it differently.
I've also stated why lecturing other people on social change however well intended can be problematic. Still lots men have called Saka Sancho and Rashford names worse than hypocrites, and lots of those men are guilty of something far more base and primal than hypocrisy motivating them. The England lads can take it.
 
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Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
No I've not disregarded the Football associations statement. I've just focused on the words of the men kneeling Mings Henderson who have specifically referenced why they are doing it.The're not trying to change the world steeve, just their world. This to my mind is both pragmatic sensible and achievable. That the don't do something else about some place else also dose not make them hypocrites.

We clearly see it differently.
I've also stated why lecturing other people on social change however well intended can be problematic. Still lots of people have called them worse than hypocrites and lots of those people are guilty of some far more base and primal than hypocrisy motivating them.
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Ok, so we are focusing on two different things here.

You are focusing on what the players have said, whilst I am focusing on the FA statement.
Admittedly, I did mention the players as well.

I accept the players reasoning behind taking the knee.

I am also adamant that the FA, as a group, do not have the courage to back up their own words.

You can't be for equality for just one section of society.
If you are truly, genuinely against discrimination, injustice and inequality, then that must, by definition, be applied to all sections of society.

The litmus test is as I have already said :

Would the FA send a team to a country that, by its own laws, discriminates against black people?

If the answer is no, then why is it acceptable to send a team to a country that, by its own laws, discriminates against gay people?

The answer can only be that it is not acceptable.
Otherwise you are treating people differently based on either their skin colour or their sexuality.
 
stevee said:
Ok, so we are focusing on two different things here.

You are focusing on what the players have said, whilst I am focusing on the FA statement.
Admittedly, I did mention the players as well.

I accept the players reasoning behind taking the knee.

I am also adamant that the FA, as a group, do not have the courage to back up their own words.

You can't be for equality for just one section of society.
If you are truly, genuinely against discrimination, injustice and inequality, then that must, by definition, be applied to all sections of society.

The litmus test is as I have already said :

Would the FA send a team to a country that, by its own laws, discriminates against black people?

If the answer is no, then why is it acceptable to send a team to a country that, by its own laws, discriminates against gay people?

The answer can only be that it is not acceptable.
Otherwise you are treating people differently based on either their skin colour or their sexuality.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of black and mixed race footballers. Many of them, for some sad reason, receive plenty of racist abuse. There aren't any openly gay top level footballers to my knowledge. If there were as many openly gay footballers as there are black footballers, the homophobic abuse would be equal or greater than the levels of racist abuse we currently see. I guess if there were high levels of openly gay players, the world cup in Qatar could be more at risk of being boycotted by players or nations.
 
SpiderSpurs said:
Sends a bigger anti racist message than not going at all IMO.
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SpiderSpurs said:
Zaha has had enough of empty gestures such as taking the knee and thinks more should be done.
I agree with him. This makes me racist?
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An empty gesture sends a bigger message than boycotting an event? I think literally pulling out of a tournament sends a huge message. Imagine if we'd won it on Sunday and as holders of the Euro's we stepped out of the Qatar WC? Massive message, especially considering we have an openly homosexual member of the squad, and how many teams can say that?
 
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harry7 said:
Actually it's not punishable by death and never has been. It is illegal and up to 3 years imprisonment. In 1966 when England hosted the world cup homosexuality was illegal in the UK and would land you in prison (up to life imprisonment) - Under our cancel culture rules should be erase that win from the record?

And since when did 'the West' write the rule book and what is right and wrong? You can go to prison for marrying you cousin, sex with a minor in the UK. Are UK discriminating against those groups? Should France have boycotted the Euros because the UK doesn't allow 15 year old's to have sex?

Objections to the world cup in Qatar are largely based on prejudice against Islamic nations.
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You made some interesting points...... But then you absolutely fucked it with the last line.

- Corruption behind the Qatar bid.
- Abuse of slave labour (to build the stadiums + in general)
- Attitudes/laws towards homosexuality.
- Poor women's rights
 
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Airfixx said:
You made some interesting points...... But then you absolutely fucked it with the last line.

- Corruption behind the Qatar bid.
- Abuse of slave labour (to build the stadiums + in general)
- Attitudes/laws towards homosexuality.
- Poor women's rights
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- Corruption behind the Qatar bid. EVERY world cup bid is corrupt. The Russian bid was linked to numerous bribes and the corruption under the South Africa world cup was scandalous.

- Abuse of slave labour (to build the stadiums + in general) Go look up South Africa, Brazil and Russia. I'd also point out that the minimum wages paid to UK aged care works for example is akin the salve labour.

- Attitudes/laws towards homosexuality. How are attitudes to homosexuality in Russia? Homosexuality is still illegal in 32 countries in Africa, Most of Asia, the Americas and the Middle-east. Europe is the only continent where it is no no longer illegal - Shall we restrict all competitions to just Europe?

- Poor women's rights This unfortunately is linked to their view of Islam. Do we ban all sport from Islamic countries?

How are they expected to evolve their attitudes if we shut them out of everything?
 
harry7 said:
- Corruption behind the Qatar bid. EVERY world cup bid is corrupt. The Russian bid was linked to numerous bribes and the corruption under the South Africa world cup was scandalous.

- Abuse of slave labour (to build the stadiums + in general) Go look up South Africa, Brazil and Russia. I'd also point out that the minimum wages paid to UK aged care works for example is akin the salve labour.

- Attitudes/laws towards homosexuality. How are attitudes to homosexuality in Russia? Homosexuality is still illegal in 32 countries in Africa, Most of Asia, the Americas and the Middle-east. Europe is the only continent where it is no no longer illegal - Shall we restrict all competitions to just Europe?

- Poor women's rights This unfortunately is linked to their view of Islam. Do we ban all sport from Islamic countries?

How are they expected to evolve their attitudes if we shut them out of everything?
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So the accumulation of these factors mean nothing???

"Whatabout" doesn't cut it.

BTW, as much as I'd agree that certain professions are under-paid/appreciated.... Your comparison of care workers vs. the amount of deaths recorded during the stadium construction projects is extremely distasteful.
 
Airfixx said:
So the accumulation of these factors mean nothing???

"Whatabout" doesn't cut it.

BTW, as much as I'd agree that certain professions are under-paid/appreciated.... Your comparison of care workers vs. the amount of deaths recorded during the stadium construction projects is extremely distasteful.
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The amount of deaths in construction of the stadium was reported as 6500 by the Newspapers. However, this number is manipulated. The 6500 deaths is the total deaths of ALL migrant workers from India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka - regardless of cause and place of world. (There are 2.3 million migrant workers in Qatar btw).

This report cites the number as 34 - Qatar World Cup: report reveals 34 stadium worker deaths in 6 years - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre

How many people needlessly died of Covid because of the low wages paid to aged care workers? You can't attract great staff when you pay 6 quid an hour.

I worked in aged care in Australia - we paid our workers 45 dollars and hours (double the minimum wage). Thats about 25 UK quids.
 
harry7 said:
The amount of deaths in construction of the stadium was reported as 6500 by the Newspapers. However, this number is manipulated. The 6500 deaths is the total deaths of ALL migrant workers from India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka - regardless of cause and place of world. (There are 2.3 million migrant workers in Qatar btw).

This report cites the number as 34 - Qatar World Cup: report reveals 34 stadium worker deaths in 6 years - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre

How many people needlessly died of Covid because of the low wages paid to aged care workers? You can't attract great staff when you pay 6 quid an hour.

I worked in aged care in Australia - we paid our workers 45 dollars and hours (double the minimum wage). Thats about 25 UK quids.
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How Much Care Assistants Get Paid In The UK In 2023

We look at the pay you should be getting as a Care Assistant working in the UK in 2023. We also briefly look at how you can increase your earnings.
www.nurses.co.uk www.nurses.co.uk

.....6 an hour is nonsense.

So is pinning the blame for covid deaths on the staff.... Especially considering what we know about infected patients being released back into homes to allow the virus to run rampant.

How many workers died during the construction of THFC stadium?
 
stevee said:
Ok, so we are focusing on two different things here.

You are focusing on what the players have said, whilst I am focusing on the FA statement.
Admittedly, I did mention the players as well.

I accept the players reasoning behind taking the knee.

I am also adamant that the FA, as a group, do not have the courage to back up their own words.

You can't be for equality for just one section of society.
If you are truly, genuinely against discrimination, injustice and inequality, then that must, by definition, be applied to all sections of society.

The litmus test is as I have already said :

Would the FA send a team to a country that, by its own laws, discriminates against black people?

If the answer is no, then why is it acceptable to send a team to a country that, by its own laws, discriminates against gay people?

The answer can only be that it is not acceptable.
Otherwise you are treating people differently based on either their skin colour or their sexuality.
Click to expand...
So you can't make moves to improve one thing without making moves to improve everything? All or nothing?
 
harry7 said:
Actually it's not punishable by death and never has been. It is illegal and up to 3 years imprisonment. In 1966 when England hosted the world cup homosexuality was illegal in the UK and would land you in prison (up to life imprisonment) - Under our cancel culture rules should be erase that win from the record?

And since when did 'the West' write the rule book and what is right and wrong? You can go to prison for marrying you cousin, sex with a minor in the UK. Are UK discriminating against those groups? Should France have boycotted the Euros because the UK doesn't allow 15 year old's to have sex?

Objections to the world cup in Qatar are largely based on prejudice against Islamic nations.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should learn how to use google?

“In addition to the Penal Code provisions outlined here, Qatar operates Sharia courts in which it is technically possible for men who engage in same-sex intimacy to be sentenced to death.”

The fact you compare being gay with having sex with a minor and marrying your cousin sums you up mate! Jog on mug
 
We want sportsmen to make a stand where our elected representatives will not? What are they doing to stop the abuses in that country and in the main we still vote for them. Very little black and white in this subject and expecting sportsmen to lead our moral compass on all issues because they are currently leading one is not right and not desired imo.

Qatar
This factsheet provides the latest statistics on trade and investment between the UK and Qatar.

Total trade in goods and services (exports plus imports) between the UK and Qatar was £5.5
billion in the four quarters to the end of Q4 2020.

---
Everyone is a hypocrite but it doesn't need to negate the good things they do.
 
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