Are the morals of our owners important to you?

[Distaste for scouse]

Clubs DID vote to veto the original take-over attempt.

PIF/Saudi (delete as preferable) have since paid 1BN to the EPL to smooth this deal through at the second attempt.

How do you know the clubs haven't attempted to challenge it all over again?



You're still just painting everyone with a VERY broad brush..... Your comment here also distinctly implies that anyone that doesn't go to matches should shut the fuck up and say nothing.

That sounds awfully like we complained the first time, then they came back with some money. Which is even worse morally then just staying silent on the whole issue.

What I'm saying is that if there is so much outrage over this it would have been a major talking point, there would have been lengthy discussions between the clubs and it would have been big news.
The fact that it isn't tells you that the people who run the league and clubs are comfortable morally with it.

You can infer into that they don't have a solitary moral to rub together which I already knew, in which case this probably isn't the sport for you.

As for the second part about not going to matches, I don't go anymore, I had two season tickets for about 5 seasons back when Jol and Hoddle were in charge, now I'm lucky to get to 5 games a season.
So I can put your mind at ease that my opinions of your opinions aren't clouded by whether you attend matches.

 

[TonySoprano]

Don’t the prospective owners of any EPL club have to demonstrate that they are right and proper etc?

The problem is the PL can just say well the UK government regards Saudi Arabia as an ally and has X,Y, Z of billion pound trade and investment deals currently in place with that country and it's ruling regime.

Why shouldn't we take their money into our league when the UK is taking their money in any number of business related ventures already?

There's no way they can fail any test of propriety on a business level.

 

[ArcspacE]

So ENIC are free-spending sports-washers?

........Now that is a plot twist!



Wanna try a-g-a-i-n?

Have a day off, please fella

85% of TFC wants your boss out - ENIC are truly hated now

 

[Airfixx]

That sounds awfully like we complained the first time, then they came back with some money. Which is even worse morally then just staying silent on the whole issue.

No it doesn't..... Unless you're saying Spurs just got given a slice of that 1BN.

What I'm saying is that if there is so much outrage over this it would have been a major talking point, there would have been lengthy discussions between the clubs and it would have been big news.
The fact that it isn't tells you that the people who run the league and clubs are comfortable morally with it.

Bit of a leap.

You can infer into that they don't have a solitary moral to rub together as I am in which case this probably isn't the sport for you.

Eh?

As for the second part about not going to matches, I don't go anymore, I had two season tickets for about 5 seasons back when Jol and Hoddle were in charge, now I'm lucky to get to 5 games a season.
So I can put your mind at ease that my opinions of your opinions aren't clouded by whether you attend matches.

Eh?

Go back and read what you wrote..... Essentially that one either stops going to matches or they are a virtue signaler.......

What about people that live far and wide or don't go get to games for other reasons in the first place? ......They should just shut the fuck up? .....Say nothing and don't voice their objection?

 

[Distaste for scouse]

No it doesn't..... Unless you're saying Spurs just got given a slice of that 1BN.



Bit of a leap.



Eh?



Eh?

Go back and read what you wrote..... Essentially that one either stops going to matches or they are a virtue signaler.......

What about people that live far and wide or don't go get to games for other reasons in the first place? ......They should just shut the fuck up? .....Say nothing and don't voice their objection?

It wasn't my intention to tell anyone they should just shut the fuck up.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that football has been morally bankrupt for a long long time now and I'm just totally over that aspect of it.

I just find it all a bit tired and hypocritical people venting about human rights abusers being allowed into the PL as if we don't already have owners in the league that meet that bar.
And as I mentioned earlier all the kit makers utilising sweat shops etc etc.

I know for a fact that many people moaning about this would be totally over the moon if it was us that had just been taken over. I would be.

At least I'm honest about it and don't pretend to be deeply offended while still endorsing it by buying up all the merchandise and tickets every week.

That's what I was trying to say.

I'll caveat that by saying that some people do have the courage of their own convictions and are willing to boycott over such things, I will also say that I'm not judging whether you are one of these people. But by and large I just find most of this tedious virtue signalling.

 

[Bill Madrid]

The only difference between ENIC and the Saudis is that the Saudis can get away with it.

End of.

So being a dislikeable, aggressively capitalist company is exactly the same as beheading adulterers, gays, atheist, apostates and a long so on and so forth in public? With being complicit in international terrorism? With promoting the most oppressive, barbaric form of your religion worldwide while repressing any variant that is even vaguely less medieval?

Have a word with yourself.

When Daniel Levy tracks down Arcspace and murders and dismembers him abroad, smuggles him out of a sovereign foreign embassy in plastic bags and gets away with it scot-free, come back to me.

Oh, and any argument that concludes with "end of" is automatically lost.

 

[ArcspacE]

When Daniel Levy tracks down Arcspace and murders and dismembers him abroad, smuggles him out of a sovereign foreign embassy in plastic bags and gets away with it scot-free, come back to me.

:nunofacepalm:

 

[Distaste for scouse]

The problem is the PL can just say well the UK government regards Saudi Arabia as an ally and has X,Y, Z of billion pound trade and investment deals currently in place with that country and it's ruling regime.

Why shouldn't we take their money into our league when the UK is taking their money in any number of business related ventures already?

There's no way they can fail any test of propriety on a business level.

The Saudi's own more land in the UK than the Queen does now.

Morals don't enter into it.

 

[Deuterz]

I'd be very interested to know who on here would genuinely reject bids for Kane on moral grounds. Not specifically from Newcastle's owners, but City or PSG too. Because most people on here that I've seen were pro selling him for big money.

Either way you're using dirty money to fund a rebuild. Either its them directly owning you, or it's you taking the money in exchange for something. Where do your principles come in to it?

 

[Airfixx]

.........That's what I was trying to say.

I'll caveat that by saying that some people do have the courage of their own convictions and are willing to boycott over such things, I will also say that I'm not judging whether you are one of these people. But by and large I just find most of this tedious virtue signalling.

...And by and large that's all I'm trying to point out. Sick of all the dismissive, 'everyone should give no fucks like me' posting going on and the common internet trope of instantly writing any moral objection off as "virtue signalling" (which so often amounts to little more than an 'everyone is as shallow as me really' attitude.

If none of that applies to you then touche.... More power to ya.

 

[Fazz]

I went to America.... I never got shot.

Point is living in Saudi and interacting with locals, you'd think that there would be some talk of these commonplace executions of women that we hear so much about it. Turns out people living in Basingstoke know more about life in Saudi than the Saudis themselves!

 

[Airfixx]

Point is living in Saudi and interacting with locals, you'd think that there would be some talk of these commonplace executions of women that we hear so much about it. Turns out people living in Basingstoke know more about life in Saudi than the Saudis themselves!

So, wait... These things have to be "commonplace" to be of concern now?


........These things don't happen and the good people of Basingstoke are simply mistaken?

 

[Tomo]

...And by and large that's all I'm trying to point out. Sick of all the dismissive, 'everyone should give no fucks like me' posting going on and the common internet trope of instantly writing any moral objection off as "virtue signalling" (which so often amounts to little more than an 'everyone is as shallow as me really' attitude.

If none of that applies to you then touche.... More power to ya.

The major virtue signally aspect in this whole drama is summed up by the below. How can laces, taking the knee mean anything. It is clear that all of this driven by the premier league and FA is totally disingenuous.

What it means now is that the fans and public have to behave as well as possible but those that govern us, own our clubs can behave how they want. Any campaign is basically now in the bin because Tommy Robinson is like your nan compared to the House of Saud.

I do wonder if the premier league and FA have thought about what this means for taking the knee, gay rights etc. Because they will have to bin it as it will now look ridiculous.

 

[FOK]

Yeh buts that basically a cheat code, a 100m runner on steroids. The reason why people respect/hate/admire Liverpool is because they built a team under great manager Klopp, backed him and ran the football side of the club really well. They earned their success and they did it themselves.

City no one cares when they win things, even their own fans don’t go to games and barely celebrate their title wins. City and Chelsea you can cost out their success and how much each trophy was.

Liverpool for all the hate is the club I would like us to be, well run, ambitious and and earning their crust. City, Chelsea and now Newcastle are like lotto winners boasting they earned their money, it’s as fake as Trumps hairdo.

they've got a lot of fans like john Thomas too giving out about their own owners not spending enough money on the club, and the super league etc.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

The major virtue signally aspect in this whole drama is summed up by the below. How can laces, taking the knee mean anything. It is clear that all of this driven by the premier league and FA is totally disingenuous.

What it means now is that the fans and public have to behave as well as possible but those that govern us, own our clubs can behave how they want. Any campaign is basically now in the bin because Tommy Robinson is like your nan compared to the House of Saud.

I do wonder if the premier league and FA have thought about what this means for taking the knee, gay rights etc. Because they will have to bin it as it will now look ridiculous.

Yep, you really nailed the hypocrisy at the heart of it far better than I did in my ramble.

 

[Matt1882]

So being a dislikeable, aggressively capitalist company is exactly the same as beheading adulterers, gays, atheist, apostates and a long so on and so forth in public? With being complicit in international terrorism? With promoting the most oppressive, barbaric form of your religion worldwide while repressing any variant that is even vaguely less medieval?

Have a word with yourself.

When Daniel Levy tracks down Arcspace and murders and dismembers him abroad, smuggles him out of a sovereign foreign embassy in plastic bags and gets away with it scot-free, come back to me.

Oh, and any argument that concludes with "end of" is automatically lost.

That's not what I said. I said the difference between them is that the Saudi get away with it.

In other words, ENIC can't be horrendously immoral as they'd be banged up for life for that kind of thing.

But if they were able to get away with taking out anyone that stands between them and wealth, there'd be skeletons in their closet. I've no doubt.

 

[Fazz]

Playing devils advocate a bit here as I don't have strong opinions on Arab owners, I just think any clubs with virtually unlimited funds are bad for the integrity of the sport, If I wanted to follow a sport that was all about money I'd follow Formula one racing. the morale question hasn't entered into it for me.

But If we are going to be talking about the morality of owners.

Do we have evidence that the new Newcastle owners have been personally involved in any crimes or human rights violations?
It doesn't really cut it when you just lump a group of people together based on their country of origin or ethnicity. Nor can they be blamed individually for the policies of the state they happen to reside in.

So if the country has what we in the West consider to be backwards views on homosexuality and women's rights, does that necessarily mean that the new Newcastle owners are at the forefront of that?
I don't know the answers I'm just asking the questions.

Secondly I assume everybody moaning about Newcastle's owners will be boycotting the World cup in Qatar next year for the rumoured human rights violations?

It's a good question. It looks like the new chairman will be Yasir Al-Rumayyan, who is on Saudis PIF board along with Prince Salman, the current the leader of the country.

Salman has been accused of many human rights abuses although not necessarily the things he is being accused of here. He isn't going around executing women - he is in fact a staunch secularist and his main target of repression has been religious institutions and scholars. Many have been imprisoned or 'disappeared'. His particular brand of secularism is an attempt to win Western investment and it is working.

His biggest crime is the war in Yemen. There is a slow genocide going on in Yemen which is being carried by Saudi with US/UK weapons. The man is a despot. But he is a despot that our tory government and the Leftist Democrats in the US seem to love.

 

[Airfixx]

Yeh buts that basically a cheat code, a 100m runner on steroids. The reason why people respect/hate/admire Liverpool is because they built a team under great manager Klopp, backed him and ran the football side of the club really well. They earned their success and they did it themselves.

Of all the things I dislike about the Dippers (90% of which is related to their fans!); that's about the only thing I DO like about them as a club......

 

[Lenny Hatchet]

What the fuck are some of you retards going on about.
Any clued up geezer knows birds can't drive , it takes my old woman an hour to park the motor in a space .
The Saudis are bang on .

 

[Skooch]

So being a dislikeable, aggressively capitalist company is exactly the same as beheading adulterers, gays, atheist, apostates and a long so on and so forth in public? With being complicit in international terrorism? With promoting the most oppressive, barbaric form of your religion worldwide while repressing any variant that is even vaguely less medieval?

Have a word with yourself.

When Daniel Levy tracks down Arcspace and murders and dismembers him abroad, smuggles him out of a sovereign foreign embassy in plastic bags and gets away with it scot-free, come back to me.

Oh, and any argument that concludes with "end of" is automatically lost.

I'd buy that if Saudi was the only country that did anything wrong.

You happy enough with American owners or English owners considering the things they've done?