Other Team Transfers

[Deleted member 15314]

Or, as bus-conductor suggested previously (though I am loath to bring up moments when he is correct), we could identify respective Fofanas much earlier...IDK but possibly when we were supposedly there giving the once over on Saliba. You would figure that whoever was watching Saliba would get a gander on his CB cohort. That's just poor scouting to focus on 1 player to the exclusion of others on the field. That would have had us in the Fofana stakes before LCFC and for <30M.

Point I'm making is that beyond the great bean counting we are run as poorly/amateurish as ManU or many of the other clubs in the PL not named City or Liverpool. But I don't think we, or anyone, should be shelling out 80 large for a CB or any other footballer FFS. I like Fofana but that 80M ship should have sailed for us...we should only spend that on yachts.

I definitely need better scouting. With Paratici that seems to be changing. We've paid a hefty sum for Gil, Sarr, Udogie.

We've got a fairly decent set of young players with the likes of Parrott, Scarlett, Devine etc.

Right now who is the future Fofana we can get to take our squad over that final hurdle and become truly comparable to City/Liverpool? Not like City and Liverpool don't big big money for their players. 100m grealish, 100m Nunez, 75m VVD etc.

Not every signing can be Bissouma for £25m.

 

[todd1882]

I definitely need better scouting. With Paratici that seems to be changing. We've paid a hefty sum for Gil, Sarr, Udogie.

We've got a fairly decent set of young players with the likes of Parrott, Scarlett, Devine etc.

Yeah, as far as assessing these folks I'm still keeping my powder dry on all of these AND Paratici.

Right now who is the future Fofana we can get to take our squad over that final hurdle and become truly comparable to City/Liverpool? Not like City and Liverpool don't big big money for their players. 100m grealish, 100m Nunez, 75m VVD etc.

IDK who is the next Fofana but I would go fishing in the same waters he was found...Italy wouldn't be my first port of call.

And we are building a team NOT adding the finishing touches which makes it a slight difference to where City and Liverpool are. The finihsing touches were needed during Poch's years. Now the team needed too much. An identity needed to be forged before you can decide what final touches are needed.

Not every signing can be Bissouma for £25m.

...as I have said before and am proven correct almost every window, there will be a better player transferred to some other team for less than we paid for whomever we brought in. The point? Well, it's not to say that Bissouma is shit or it was a bad deal. He isn't and it wasn't. It is to say that there is value (low price, high quality) in the market but we are incapable of capitalizing on it. Look at Brighton and Caicedo...is he as good as Bissouma right now? No, but even in our great deal for Bissouma he was 4x the price and though I expect him to do well here he is not 4x the player that Caicedo looks to be...value.

god I hope Reguilon was watching that game. He would be a fool not to go down there and play every week.

 

[Tomo]

Wow. That is a big gamble. £70m for Bernardo is well cheap.

They had better hope De Bruyne doesn’t get injured. While Sterling was a big sale this is another level.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

IDK who is the next Fofana but I would go fishing in the same waters he was found...Italy wouldn't be my first port of call.

We've bought plenty of duds from the French and Dutch leagues, as have others in the league. So it's not a simple case of where you buy from. Our Serie A rejects have done pretty well.

..as I have said before and am proven correct almost every window, there will be a better player transferred to some other team for less than we paid for whomever we brought in. The point? Well, it's not to say that Bissouma is shit or it was a bad deal. He isn't and it wasn't. It is to say that there is value (low price, high quality) in the market but we are incapable of capitalizing on it.

I get what you're saying, there's always a hidden gem, or even not so hidden gem that another team has picked up for a negligible fraction of what we typically pay. We can do better on that front.

However, for every Caicedo, there's a Jahanbaksh. Brighton also get by with a player like Trossard who can't hit a barn door most weeks. Until the recent sales of White, Bissouma and Cucurella, Brighton were actually badly floundering in the transfer market. They had one of the highest net spend in the league, even higher than ours actually. They've failed to find a top striker for years now.

Look at Brighton and Caicedo...is he as good as Bissouma right now? No, but even in our great deal for Bissouma he was 4x the price and though I expect him to do well here he is not 4x the player that Caicedo looks to be...value.

The difference between Bissouma and Caicedo is that Caicedo may well have flopped like Jahabaksh, but Bissouma is about as proven as it gets. As you said yourself, Bissouma right now is better than Caicedo. That makes him worth the extra we paid.

The price of players does not scale linearly with their quality. The price goes up faster than quality, cos at the top end the supply is very limited. There are only 3 DMs in the league that are outright better than Bissouma, two of them would never consider us, the other would cost 4x what we paid for Bissouma.

And we are building a team NOT adding the finishing touches which makes it a slight difference to where City and Liverpool are. The finihsing touches were needed during Poch's years. Now the team needed too much. An identity needed to be forged before you can decide what final touches are needed.

Since Biss, Spence, Richy etc haven't played much for us yet, the rebuild can't be declared a success. However, the team has evolved rapidly since Conte came in. Our front 3 is nearly perfect. Our midfield is not elite but effective. Romero has proved to be elite. We have a respectable bit of depth too.

We DO have an identity. We counter attack against the top 2, otherwise we're a mid-block, medium possession side. We have the goal-scoring WBs, roaming wide CBs, workhorse CMs. It's a defined style which is proving to be quite effective.

I really don't see what else we can do to improve this team other than getting an elite LCB, RWB, and perhaps an elite CM.

 

[Deuterz]

We DO have an identity. We counter attack against the top 2, otherwise we're a mid-block, medium possession side. We have the goal-scoring WBs, roaming wide CBs, workhorse CMs. It's a defined style which is proving to be quite effective.

I really don't see what else we can do to improve this team other than getting an elite LCB, RWB, and perhaps an elite CM.

It's simply the law of diminishing returns. At a certain level you're paying for smaller improvements but those small improvements make all the difference. Sure a 100m player might not actually be ten times the player of a 10m one of the same profile, but that's not the point at all.

As a sidenote though, no Trossard slander please. Quality footballer.

 

[todd1882]

We've bought plenty of duds from the French and Dutch leagues, as have others in the league. So it's not a simple case of where you buy from. Our Serie A rejects have done pretty well.

Never said it was and am slightly offended that you think I would suggest such a reductive take. What I AM suggesting is that the French league most closely resemble the PL in power and pace and that properly identified players from there might find the transition the smoothest...overall numbers seem to suggest there's a point here.

I get what you're saying, there's always a hidden gem, or even not so hidden gem that another team has picked up for a negligible fraction of what we typically pay. We can do better on that front.

Ok, that's awesome because I've said it a million times and no one seems to take it on. but since you've put it in your own words it seems like you do. Glad we can speak in the abstract...

However, for every Caicedo, there's a Jahanbaksh. Brighton also get by with a player like Trossard who can't hit a barn door most weeks. Until the recent sales of White, Bissouma and Cucurella, Brighton were actually badly floundering in the transfer market. They had one of the highest net spend in the league, even higher than ours actually. They've failed to find a top striker for years now.

...

The difference between Bissouma and Caicedo is that Caicedo may well have flopped like Jahabaksh, but Bissouma is about as proven as it gets. As you said yourself, Bissouma right now is better than Caicedo. That makes him worth the extra we paid.

...WTF?!?! Why are we back to talking about specifics? It was just an example and in no way an indictment on Bissouma and his xfer which you seems to be going to great lengths to defend. I'm not attacking it, it was an example of my point...you've conceded the merits of the general point so no reason to defend a specific xfer that wasn't under attack...

The price of players does not scale linearly with their quality. The price goes up faster than quality, cos at the top end the supply is very limited. There are only 3 DMs in the league that are outright better than Bissouma, two of them would never consider us, the other would cost 4x what we paid for Bissouma.

...again, xfer NOT under attack. What IS under attack and what my point is an indictment of is paying 80M for ANY player. There are players as good or better for a fraction of that.

We DO have an identity. We counter attack against the top 2, otherwise we're a mid-block, medium possession side. We have the goal-scoring WBs, roaming wide CBs, workhorse CMs. It's a defined style which is proving to be quite effective.

We don't. And this stuff you mistake as 'identity' will be gone when Conte leaves. You're making the same mistake as attributing nonsense to DNA which saw an immediate volte-face.

I really don't see what else we can do to improve this team other than getting an elite LCB, RWB, and perhaps an elite CM.

Perhaps your vision needs a checkup. EVERY team can be improved. To think differently is to discount inter-player and team dynamics. It's not just individual player quality that matters. But we can be improved on both fronts.

 

[bus-conductor]

You said more than 20m..... How high would you be prepared to go exactly?

(In terms of attributing a value to him; regardless of Spurs.)



Yes.... "Top level".

BL has a question mark hanging over it when it comes to attacking players transitioning to the EPL...... (Also see fellow Chav, Havertz)

It's all very well adopting the stance that TW can still score in other leagues, but (like with us trying to sell Reg & GLC) the amount of teams of their level that can afford 25-30m for a player drastically shrinks.



Why should the last 2 seasons not count?

We've been in a lull over recent seasons and most would argue the chavs are were a better team.

Enter Werner with a big rep and he's scored 10 EPL-G vs Son's 40.

Son's better CL season is better than TW's too.

Spoiler: Their numbers

Son:
EPL-G / CL-G / EPL-A / CL-A

21/22 - 23 / 0 / 9 / 0
20/21 - 17 / 0 / 10 / 0
19/20 - 11 / 5 / 11 / 1
18/19 - 12 / 4 / 7 / 1
17/18 - 12 / 4 / 6 / 0
16/17 - 14 / 1 / 8 / 0

Werner:
EPL-G / CL-G / EPL-A / CL-A

21/22 - 4 / 4 / 1 / 2
20/21 - 6 / 4 / 12 / 2

BL-G / CL-G / BL-A / CL-A

19/20 - 28 / 4 / 8 / 2
18/19 - 16 / 0 / 9 / 0
17/18 - 13 / 0 / 8 / 0
16/17 - 21 / 0 / 7 / 0

They are not infallible..... Keita, Minamino.... Both from the BL too btw.


You think they'd pay 50m for him now they've seen him in the EPL for the last 2 years?

What I’m saying is, assuming his wages were “reasonable” 100-150, then I think there are a whole bunch of clubs for whom Werner has shown enough in his oeuvre to be worth paying more than the 20m quoted fee.

But I am guessing the deal is probably going to cost that circa 40m anyway as RBL will have to pay up his outstanding wages - which is why they are only paying a 20m purchase fee to Chelsea.

 

[Airfixx]

What I’m saying is, assuming his wages were “reasonable” 100-150, then I think there are a whole bunch of clubs for whom Werner has shown enough in his oeuvre to be worth paying more than the 20m quoted fee.

That much was clear a number of posts ago; I just contest that idea for the reasons already noted above.

Even more so if you're still talking about 150kpw; which is out of reach for clubs outside of the top 15 or so richest.... Most of which I would doubt would want him at significantly more than £20m.

 

[PapeMasterclass]

 

[Airfixx]

 

[CroSpurs]

Isn’t Coady Liverpool fan?

I know I’m being romantic, but it’s kind of weird wanting to leave Wolves for Everton nowadays.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Never said it was and am slightly offended that you think I would suggest such a reductive take. What I AM suggesting is that the French league most closely resemble the PL in power and pace and that properly identified players from there might find the transition the smoothest...overall numbers seem to suggest there's a point here.

Ok, that's awesome because I've said it a million times and no one seems to take it on. but since you've put it in your own words it seems like you do. Glad we can speak in the abstract...

...

...WTF?!?! Why are we back to talking about specifics? It was just an example and in no way an indictment on Bissouma and his xfer which you seems to be going to great lengths to defend. I'm not attacking it, it was an example of my point...you've conceded the merits of the general point so no reason to defend a specific xfer that wasn't under attack...

...again, xfer NOT under attack. What IS under attack and what my point is an indictment of is paying 80M for ANY player. There are players as good or better for a fraction of that.

We don't. And this stuff you mistake as 'identity' will be gone when Conte leaves. You're making the same mistake as attributing nonsense to DNA which saw an immediate volte-face.

Perhaps your vision needs a checkup. EVERY team can be improved. To think differently is to discount inter-player and team dynamics. It's not just individual player quality that matters. But we can be improved on both fronts.

No one is disagreeing with the idea of good scouting, but you can't build a world class team with just clever transfers, it doesn't work for Real Madrid or City, teams that players throw themselves at, and it won't work for us.

We've made our decision regarding the other positions. There's no realistic prospect of upgrading Son, Kane, Perisic, Bissouma, Romero, Kulu etc. Either these players and Conte win us the league or they don't there's nothing else we can do.

So LCB (and RWB, CM) remains the only position we can try to upgrade. It seems we'll leave it till next summer to find a more reasonable option. However, if our rivals are willing to spend 60m for a LB and 80m for CB, what are the chances we'll find a top top CB for any less? If that's the case why not just spend it now?

We do have the money.

 

[fogueres]

 

[Deuterz]

Some reports that De Jong looks more likely to go to Chelsea .. honestly would prefer he go to United where I think he'd struggle to completely change things. Alongside Kovacic & Kante at Chelsea you're looking at arguably the best midfield in England.

All that confidence Chelsea's intent to spend big was over seems very misplaced. Boehly is making serious moves.

 

[cretinousgoat]

Some reports that De Jong looks more likely to go to Chelsea .. honestly would prefer he go to United where I think he'd struggle to completely change things. Alongside Kovacic & Kante at Chelsea you're looking at arguably the best midfield in England.

All that confidence Chelsea's intent to spend big was over seems very misplaced. Boehly is making serious moves.

I'm getting a little tired of seeing you big up Chelsea all over the forum. Bin vote cast!

Change your name to Ramdeuterz Le Bleu

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Some reports that De Jong looks more likely to go to Chelsea .. honestly would prefer he go to United where I think he'd struggle to completely change things. Alongside Kovacic & Kante at Chelsea you're looking at arguably the best midfield in England.

All that confidence Chelsea's intent to spend big was over seems very misplaced. Boehly is making serious moves.

Outrageous sums being spent over there.

So if De Jong goes through for 75m and Fofana for 80m, the total spend comes to...

Fofana 80m
Cucurella 60
Sterling 50
De Jong 75
Koulibaly 35
Chukwumeka 16
Slonina 8

325m (excluding sales)

Fucking pisstake. Did Bohley manage to buy the club without taking on the 1.5bn debt to Abramovic? Don't see how else he can justify such lavish spending.

 

[Deuterz]

I'm getting a little tired of seeing you big up Chelsea all over the forum. Bin vote cast!

Change your name to Ramdeuterz Le Bleu

Yeah but you bin vote anyone who has a different opinion to you. At this point I can imagine the admin just rolls his eyes when he sees another one come through.

& stating a signing they haven't even made yet would be a big move isn't 'bigging them up' at all, the point was that everyone on here was convinced the spending would end after Roman and that hasn't remotely been the case.

 

[cretinousgoat]

Yeah but you bin vote anyone who has a different opinion to you. At this point I can imagine the admin just rolls his eyes when he sees another one come through.

& stating a signing they haven't even made yet would be a big move isn't 'bigging them up' at all, the point was that everyone on here was convinced the spending would end after Roman and that hasn't remotely been the case.

The bin vote was obviously tongue in cheek. Admin ain't gonna accept no bin vote for that ffs! (and rightly so).

I stand by my point though - quit bigging up our rivals (yes you are). It's puke inducing. There's old school posters on here who'd rather smack a chelsea fan than praise their club, and rightly so.

 

[Deuterz]

Outrageous sums being spent over there.

So if De Jong goes through for 75m and Fofana for 80m, the total spend comes to...

Fofana 80m
Cucurella 60
Sterling 50
De Jong 75
Koulibaly 35
Chukwumeka 16
Slonina 8

325m (excluding sales)

Fucking pisstake. Did Bohley manage to buy the club without taking on the 1.5bn debt to Abramovic? Don't see how else he can justify such lavish spending.

Didn't Roman write off the debt? Essentially just ended up being a big gift to the club.

Seems to me Boehly has come in and wants to make a statement. Long term he'll want the club to turn a profit but doesn't seem like one of the American owners who is happy for the club to tread water, he's very happy to speculate.

I can't see them getting Fofana AND De Jong. That would be insanity, and I believe the most money a PL team would ever have spent in one window?

 

[Deuterz]

The bin vote was obviously tongue in cheek. Admin ain't gonna accept no bin vote for that ffs! (and rightly so).

I stand by my point though - quit bigging up our rivals (yes you are). It's puke inducing. There's old school posters on here who'd rather smack a chelsea fan than praise their club, and rightly so.

Saying they're spending a lot isn't praising the club. If anything it's a joke they're still able to do this because it's essentially as a result of them suffering not a single consequence from Roman's ownership. All his doping has been written off and the Premier League/government is happy with that because they're a powerful institution.