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[Fattynomates]

True, but he took over in October of 2015/16 season and finished 8th.

I do think Klopp is a better manager than Jose now, but you also have to take into account the amount of money Liverpool have had to spend to reach the pinnacle. VVD, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Keita etc.

They sold Coutinho at the peak though and invested wisely, if Levy had done the same with Eriksen at his peak he would have been hounded out! I dont think its just about money though, we seemed to buy a lot of flops under Poch, now apparently Jose wanted all the flops he signed at United, so surely Poch must have wanted the likes of Sanchez and Foyth and Sissoko, i think if we had a better setup in place with good scouting and a director of football we might have got more hits than misses.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

They sold Coutinho at the peak though and invested wisely, if Levy had done the same with Eriksen at his peak he would have been hounded out! I dont think its just about money though, we seemed to buy a lot of flops under Poch, now apparently Jose wanted all the flops he signed at United, so surely Poch must have wanted the likes of Sanchez and Foyth and Sissoko, i think if we had a better setup in place with good scouting and a director of football we might have got more hits than misses.

I agree some of our acquisitions haven't worked out; but it's hard to tell which players will succeed in the PL. Everyone thought Werner and Havertz would be stars but they have flopped so far.

 

[ArcspacE]

Everyone thought Werner and Havertz would be stars but they have flopped so far.

I think they will be very good next season

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

So it is only one of their top players that he sold and that funded the big moves he made. The point is still the same. Klopp did not come in demanding big money to remake the team. He used the resources he had, made a tough decision to move on from a talented player and got the team to play well based on what he had.

I'm not sure the narrative of Klopp not spending big money is correct. As I showed, Liverpool have managed to raise £86M from Benteke Ibe Brewster Solanke, none of them who Liverpool needed to rely on anyway.
So net spend in these instance may be a bit misleading. As I said, if we had 4 mediocre players who we could sell for that much money, Jose could bring in a couple of stars without worsening his net spend.

I am sure Poch could have used a Reguilon or PEH in the two years he got nobody but he still managed to have much better results playing much better football.

But at the same time, the spine of our team has significantly declined. Toby has lost his pace due to age, Vert's contract ended; even Sissoko was better under Poch as before his surgery he was more athletic.
I'm not saying Jose has done well so far, but as I said earlier I think this expectations for immediate success is not a health aspect of the modern game. Give him time, as well as decent CBs.

 

[MouraThat]

I'll be happy to keep Jose if
- Results/performances improve
- He plays a better brand of football
- Develops younger players

etc...

 

[MouraThat]

I'll be happy to keep Jose if
- Results/performances improve
- He plays a better brand of football
- Develops younger players

etc...

To add to this basically winning the cups etc.. wouldn't really change my mind

Because if we shithoused our way to winning a cup I wouldn't feel happy and I'd still want Mourinho out because he's not really ticking off the rest of the criteria.

I just want to see improvements in the quality of play and players. If he is a good coach he should be able to deliver this.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

GLC should have played way more especially over Sissoko. I think he should have figured out what he was doing with Dele much earlier. The tough love nonsense went on way too long and we wasted time/money we could have used by moving on from him and bringing in a player who could have helped us for this season.

I agree on GLC, I was frustrated at the time that he seemed to start Europa and then come on at minute 60 in PL.
However, could it be possible that a factor was his fitness? He had groin issue and missed pre-season, Jose said a few times he's not yet 100%, and then when he did start in the PL he has a muscular injury that kept him out for a couple of months.

With Dele, I'm not sure. He had looked off even in the last 2 seasons under Poch, and admitted in the Prime video documentary that he wasn't very hard working in training. I think Jose was trying to spark him into action in any way possible. Let's see how he plays in final stretch of season. Tough love worked with Ndombele.

As for specific players, Toby should have been first choice CB all the time, that is a no doubt and not based on hindsight that was clear as day.

True, but he's also significantly declined from a few years ago. The fact he's first choice shows how poor our CB situation is.

 

[Matt1882]

Was it really 2 points from 8 games!?!?!?!

Believe it or not, it really was.
Not really well publicised back then.

 

[Matt1882]

Upto the league Cup win, we were doing alright. Unfortunately Ramos was having personal issues in his private life / with his wife, which understandably meant his head went and he lost focus. Pity as he was a cup specialist and had things not gone wrong for him, I'm sure we would have won more cups under him.

Won about 7 in 16 before the final.
Went out of the FAC to Man United
Went out of the Ropey league to PSV (Gomes masterclass?)
I think people's minds are getting clouded by a pointless league cup win. We played shit. We got beat a lot. That 8 game period in his 2nd season will probably stay with me forever as the worst football Spurs have ever played. That includes Graham, the entire 1990's and the absolute worst that Mourinho could ever serve up. We were frighteningly bad.

The only one to come close in mind as 2nd season AVB.

 

[Matt1882]

But no trophy.

well we won't sign them anyway as our previous champions league run as showed. You get a trophy and entry into the Europa cup. Why are we above the league cup, I dont understand. We've won the league only twice.
What did we get for playing all the clubs above?

Ropey league is painful. We've played more games than ANY team in the top 5 leagues in all of Europe.
And it shows. Son looks shot to bits. Players are injured. Squad constantly being rotated.
Playing away on a Thursday before a league game on Saturday/Sunday etc. It's just dreadful.
Next round Thursday night at home, then Woolwich on Sunday. Following Thursday away to Zagreb then Villa away. Villa who won't have had a midweek game.

The strain isn't worth the games. Of which there are too many.

Look at the results this year.
1-1 Vs Newcastle came 3 days after an away match in fuckknowswhere.
0-0 Vs Chelsea came 3 days after home Ropey league match
1-1 Vs Palace 3 days after home ropey match

You can throw in other cup games interrupting the league form. Some of our other bad performances came after league cup games and FA Cup games. The 1-1 Vs Fulham was 3 days after Marine. The 1-3 Vs Liverpool was 3 days after Wycome

If you win the Ropey league you get CL. But that's remote. If you win the other 2, all you get is a lot of games and a lot of bad league perfomances.

 

[MemphisWill]

They sold Coutinho at the peak though and invested wisely, if Levy had done the same with Eriksen at his peak he would have been hounded out! I dont think its just about money though, we seemed to buy a lot of flops under Poch, now apparently Jose wanted all the flops he signed at United, so surely Poch must have wanted the likes of Sanchez and Foyth and Sissoko, i think if we had a better setup in place with good scouting and a director of football we might have got more hits than misses.

You can't discount Pochettino's influence, either. If we cashed in on Eriksen and Toby at peak value, Poch absolutely would have walked to the nearest train station and booked passage to Manchester. Poch and Levy thought we were close and if we held onto our best players instead of selling them we could win something.

And let's not pretend we're unique. 12 months before Liverpool won the CL everyone was calling them a selling club and their own supporters were campaigning to get FSG and their under-investment out of the club. Before VVD, their net spend throughout their tenure was less than ours over the same period...and its still pretty low prorated annually.

They did well with the Suarez/Coutinho money. We made a hash of the Bale windfall, thats really the difference. Tottenham's biggest problem the past 5 years or so is we can't find a player on the up to save our lives. We have too many Lamelas (and I love Coco) and not enough Sons.

 

[MemphisWill]

Yeah, thats EXACTLY what she said.

FMOB, talk about polarising a post and beating someone up for your inelegant and shoddy understanding of the point.

That doesn't even make any sense, Mick. She literally stated that if we won the LC players would want to sign with us.

And I'm not specifically beating up the LC on this one. We spent loads of oxygen clamoring about how when we qualified for the CL players would want to sign for us. And when we built the new training centre players would want to sign for us. And when we moved into the new stadium players would want to play there. At some point the penny drops that footballers really just care about money. Which is how nothing clubs playing in shit stadiums like Chelsea, Man City, and PSG go from complete after thoughts to most some of the most decorated clubs in the 21st century. Money.

It fucking sucks, but that's the truth. United has money and history and can do fuck all with it now. There's no magic pill to vault Spurs into the elite, and we have to stop deluding ourselves that there is.

All of that said, we're in the LC final so fuck yeah let's win it. But it ain't gonna change anything, let's not kid ourselves.

 

[The special ones mai]

Klopp has finished top 4 in every single one of his full seasons at Liverpool.

Whilst seeing clear improvements in his teams results and style of play.

He came in October, and reached the league cup final, lost to man city, and reached the europa league final, lost to sevilla.. in the league he finished 8th!
Sound familiar to this years spurs season?

 

[Totti]

He came in October, and reached the league cup final, lost to man city, and reached the europa league final, lost to sevilla.. in the league he finished 8th!
Sound familiar to this years spurs season?

Only if you forget that Mourinho has been here for 15 months and Klopp done that in 6.

 

[The special ones mai]

Only if you forget that Mourinho has been here for 15 months and Klopp done that in 6.

And you forget Mourinho had a pandemic and no pre season..but its alright pick whichever excuses you want

 

[Totti]

And you forget Mourinho had a pandemic and no pre season..but its alright pick whichever excuses you want

Is that the excuse you're going with then?

 

[MemphisWill]

He came in October, and reached the league cup final, lost to man city, and reached the europa league final, lost to sevilla.. in the league he finished 8th!
Sound familiar to this years spurs season?

And we all (myself included) delighted in calling him Flopp.

 

[The special ones mai]

Is that the excuse you're going with then?

Well you seem to think jose reaching 2 finals and finishing 8th is suddenly ok for klopp so yeh iam, must of been hard for klopp with a team who finished 2nd and should of won the league the season before, than a spurs team that was clearing in decline from hardly investing in 2 seasons..

 

[Totti]

Well you seem to think jose reaching 2 finals and finishing 8th is suddenly ok for klopp so yeh iam, must of been hard for klopp with a team who finished 2nd and should of won the league the season before, than a spurs team that was clearing in decline from hardly investing in 2 seasons..

No, no. Its one of the better excuses.

Certainly better than thinking the squad isn't good enough or the players are shit. That one's hilarious.

 

[The special ones mai]

No, no. Its one of the better excuses.

Certainly better than thinking the squad isn't good enough or the players are shit. That one's hilarious.

So you think this sqaud is good enough for top 4?