Except, of course, Harry Winks was arguably our best player in the Champions League final.
I always find it curious how people rewrite history.
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I always find it curious how people rewrite history.
Alfie Devine was aged 18 a month ago - and has been a standout in England youth, currently England u19's. Otherwise he's been training a lot with Spurs first team which is a lot more than most 17 or 18 year olds do suggesting managers see something in him
Sadly injured about a month ago otherwise he would be out on loan probably at a league 1 club (like Scarlett) to gain enough experience to get him to compete at Spurs.
At that age there is still a degree of risk that he won't make it to be a top level pro, but he's consistently showing he's about the best in his age group, which is as good as it gets at age 18.
So lets say its 80% confidence that he'll be better than Winks in a few years time. Better odds than I'd have have given Skipp at a similar age - and I think you'll agree he's turned out ok so far (although still some way to go after a playing career of one season in Championship and a half season in PL)
This is exactly what I mean. He was the standout performer in games where the majority of players won't make it to the elite level.
We can't, and shouldn't, over rate youngsters. Let's just let them develop, quietly and see where they end up.
I've seen Winks being shit against farmers from Slovakia on thurday nights. I've seen Winks being beaten in midfield in rainy nights agaist league 2 teams. And all that moments will be lost like tears in rain.
You make such a fuck statement and accuse other people of rewrite the history? Ok!
of course no one has seen him against better players. but its just an eye test and a gut feeling. you can see if a player is special or not just from watching them, how they look on the ball, decision making, alertness etc etc etc.
he looks like he has a special talent thats all anyone is saying, of course the test comes in games against better players. surely you can spot better players just by watching clips of them play regardless of the opposition? winks has no qualities whatsoever, hes a really poor footballer. this kid looks like he has that special gift..time will tell!
watching his clips from the euros hes got all the key ingredients needed for a good MF player. can travel with the ball well, can put his foot through the ball and strike it properly, has good weight of pass (something you cant teach because if you could all pro's would have it and a lot havent) and from the small data we have he has a decent football I.Q too, also not scared to get stuck in....but as you say the test comes against better opposition, he still has a lot of growing to do and in the midfield in the prem you do need to have a certain level of physicality which he is probably a little short of now but in a year or two he should be fine.
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Champions League final player ratings: Alisson impresses as Liverpool beat Tottenham 2-0
A year ago, Liverpools goalkeeper was their Champions League final villain; Twelve months on, Liverpools goalkeeper was their hero...
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Tottenham 0-2 Liverpool: Champions League final player ratings
Joël Matip was strong in defence and helped create Liverpool’s second goal but Harry Kane brought little to the table for Tottenham
www.theguardian.com
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Player ratings from the Champions League final
Goals from Salah and Origi saw the Reds emerge victorious from what was in truth a low key affair for much of it
www.independent.co.uk
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Player ratings from Liverpool's Champions League final win over Tottenham
Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold caught the eye of our man John Cross in Madrid
www.mirror.co.uk
Highest ranked Spurs player.
I think that safely settles any debate you were thinking of entering. He certainly wasn't simply ''making up the numbers'' as the person I originally responded to said.
Please do your research next time.
I dunno if it applies to other fans, but for ours, there's an unhealthy obsession with pushing the youth and over rating them.
Champions League final player ratings: Alisson impresses as Liverpool beat Tottenham 2-0
A year ago, Liverpools goalkeeper was their Champions League final villain; Twelve months on, Liverpools goalkeeper was their hero...www.skysports.com
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Tottenham 0-2 Liverpool: Champions League final player ratings
Joël Matip was strong in defence and helped create Liverpool’s second goal but Harry Kane brought little to the table for Tottenham
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Player ratings from the Champions League final
Goals from Salah and Origi saw the Reds emerge victorious from what was in truth a low key affair for much of it
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Player ratings from Liverpool's Champions League final win over Tottenham
Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold caught the eye of our man John Cross in Madrid
Highest ranked Spurs player.
I think that safely settles any debate you were thinking of entering. He certainly wasn't simply ''making up the numbers'' as the person I originally responded to said.
Please do your research next time.
These no doubt all relate to his high percentage of successful passes.
5 yards backwards to Toby.
In most of those hes at or near the same rating as Toby and Jan who did the real work.
In all of those, he is the highest or equal highest. Again, he didn't just make up the numbers. I could use the search bar and find the TFC match thread from back then too if you like? See what the consensus was here?
My research is watching the game.Champions League final player ratings: Alisson impresses as Liverpool beat Tottenham 2-0
A year ago, Liverpools goalkeeper was their Champions League final villain; Twelve months on, Liverpools goalkeeper was their hero...
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Tottenham 0-2 Liverpool: Champions League final player ratings
Joël Matip was strong in defence and helped create Liverpool’s second goal but Harry Kane brought little to the table for Tottenham
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Player ratings from the Champions League final
Goals from Salah and Origi saw the Reds emerge victorious from what was in truth a low key affair for much of it
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Highest ranked Spurs player.
Player ratings from Liverpool's Champions League final win over Tottenham
Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold caught the eye of our man John Cross in Madrid
Highest ranked Spurs player.
I think that safely settles any debate you were thinking of entering. He certainly wasn't simply ''making up the numbers'' as the person I originally responded to said.
Please do your research next time.
Yes, and if you read the match thread from then, as I have just done briefly, and search Winks' name in the search bar. He is named man of the match for us by most people. And if you go to the page that corresponds with his subbing, it is unanimous shock and disgust with Poch.
Please don't rewrite history and disparage a 20 year Spurs veteran just because you don't like his passing range.
People still think he's good despite all the evidence.
Go and watch the match and, with hindsight, see if he did anything more than short, easy passes.
Lots of them, sure, but nothing difficult, daring, creating or even outside of passive.
He was a 6 or 7 because he had a lot of touches and succeeded in finding a team mate. That sums up the best Winks has ever been.
One of those reviews even used the immortal line "neat and tidy"
He would be man of the match for spurs in what is probably the biggest disappointment in the clubs recent history.
Doesn't matter. Still doesn't mean he was just making up the numbers. If he was, then so was the rest of the squad.
Harry Kane certainly was then as he kept out a firing Lucas Moura who deserved that start more than anyone.
Well, then you can acknowledge you were being extremely harsh in saying he was making up the numbers. He and Sissoko carried us on their backs through the Xmas period that season when we had a midfield crisis.
How people forget.
At least Sissoko tried to push forward, often at the expense of making himself look a bit of a donkey.
This debate is pointless now. You were being harsh and that has been proven. On to Marseille!
No need to sidetrack this thread with winks discussion.