Amazingly yes, it can be worse

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AberdeenYid said:
So to be clear, can someone confirm who of the following can we can blame for us playing shite?
4. Poch
3. Baldini
2. Levy
5. Players
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In that order. Baldini spent the Bale money on players without having a clue how they would fit into the managers system. Poch has more than enough to work with but alas, apart from one decent (not great) season with Southampton has no track record of success. He's an average manager, as I said when he was appointed. Levy appointed both so needs to shoulder the blame too, but its not as if he hasn't put funds into the club. He just needs better advisors (i.e. me)
 
sammyspurs said:
We got into the CL under Levy...you cant blame him for signings, then laud Eriksne, Lloris, Bale, Modric, VDV, Carrick, Berbatov etc as if he had nothing to do with it.

Yes, they were sold, but we also reinvested.

I said it before, but better managers would have better results with our very same squad.
Levy´s mistakes have been firing managers, but to say he hasnt backed them with players is nonsense. Poch has made seven signings. How do you know he didnt want any of them?
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He doesn't play many of them so take what you will from that and former managers not just AVB have moaned about how he dealt with transfers I recall.

Let's be honest we have been for the most part poor in signings and managers under ENIC and Sugar even if compared to many other clubs.

Further more if you get a system manager like Poch it only works if you have players of that system, we have a hoch-Poch (no pun intended) of a squad. We are more suited to a pragmatist like Pardew, Pulis maybe even Sherwood than a Poch, Wenger, Guardiola type because they require specific players to make it work were as pragmatists work with any crap they are given better.

If Levy doesn't back Poch this summer with who he wants to buy and sell we will never see the style of football Poch is looking to bring other than the odd games like Chelsea and Arse this season.
 
LLB Part Deux said:
oh-no-you-dittent.jpg
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Actually, I blame Freudlyuchenko Freudlyuchenko
 
sammyspurs said:
I asked someone earlier, but got no answer..(shock)

What system? What is the system we are playing, and what exactly are the players he picks (who supposedly are suited to it) bringing to our game?
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From reading about Poch his methods are very much based on Bielsa. The point I was making is that managers like this are very stubborn and need a certain types of players to work. Wenger is very much another example, stubborn as fuck but he has players more suited to what he wants.

If you go down the route of getting one of these managers then you have to back them 100% probably for 5-10 years to see the vision work. Poch is the opposite of a short fix but Levy had a history of liking the short fix hence why he needs to show real patience and commitment this time or it will end in tears again.
 
Tomo said:
If Levy doesn't back Poch this summer with who he wants to buy and sell we will never see the style of football Poch is looking to bring other than the odd games like Chelsea and Arse this season.
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What is Poch style? The style that got him successive midtable finishes with Espanyol before he was sacked bottom of the table? Or the kind that started well with Southampton before limping into 8th?

The guy might be a management genius in disguise but I've seen nothing that would make me part with a big investment if I was Levy.
 
Tomo said:
From reading about Poch his methods are very much based on Bielsa. The point I was making is that managers like this are very stubborn and need a certain types of players to work. Wenger is very much another example, stubborn as fuck but he has players more suited to what he wants.

If you go down the route of getting one of these managers then you have to back them 100% probably for 5-10 years to see the vision work. Poch is the opposite of a short fix but Levy had a history of liking the short fix hence why he needs to show real patience and commitment this time or it will end in tears again.
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at least 4 more years of Sammy asking what the system is??? :pochwtf:
 
sammyspurs said:
Am I allowed to blame the manager for banishing a 3rd of the squad and overplaying a core of 12-13 players?

Or is countering that rather poor excuse no more than gloating and supporting Sherwood and being happy Villa won.

Not aimed at you
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Course you are mate. I value the diverse set of opinions on here.

I rate Poch. You can see what he's trying to do.

My one massive criticism is that beyond the 4-2-3-1 high pressing fit-as-fuck game he doesn't seem to have a plan B.

BUT: economic reality is that any finish above 5th, we are punching above our weight. Until we get a new ground and stop dropping a million quid every home game to the other top clubs (which is two marquee signings wages to put that in perspective) then we are just clinging to pipedreams about consistent top 4 finishes.

My belief is that Poch can get us back to champions league but to keep us there we need to step up another level economically. Which we will in about another 3 seasons.
 
LLB Part Deux said:
What is Poch style? The style that got him successive midtable finishes with Espanyol before he was sacked bottom of the table? Or the kind that started well with Southampton before limping into 8th?

The guy might be a management genius in disguise but I've seen nothing that would make me part with a big investment if I was Levy.
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I think with Southampton last season in many games you saw what he was trying to build and a few great performances this season. We have gone to pot the past 5 games or so
and his team selections have not been great but it's clear we have a mess of a sqaud at the moment and that cannot be blamed on Poch.

Levy has gone down this route by getting Poch and it would be a bloody disaster if he sacked another manager.
 
DevonLilywhite said:
Course you are mate. I value the diverse set of opinions on here.

I rate Poch. You can see what he's trying to do.

My one massive criticism is that beyond the 4-2-3-1 high pressing fit-as-fuck game he doesn't seem to have a plan B.

BUT: economic reality is that any finish above 5th, we are punching above our weight. Until we get a new ground and stop dropping a million quid every home game to the other top clubs (which is two marquee signings wages to put that in perspective) then we are just clinging to pipedreams about consistent top 4 finishes.

My belief is that Poch can get us back to champions league but to keep us there we need to step up another level economically. Which we will in about another 3 seasons.
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Hello new here! Do you really think economically we are really doing that bad? I mean we constantly have quality within in our side and I mean we have the means to pay them a fantastic salary. It would be tough for any side to resist the approach of Real Madrid who are directly responsible for poaching our best players in years gone by. Man U used to, but that seems a thing of the past. Even with a new stadium we will not be able to pay the wages Real Madrid do so even with a ground I can still see us having issues keeping players from Real Madrids clutches.

I think progressively we have made huge improvements in who is getting our players as a couple years ago Premier League clubs were able to come in and cause issue, but I don't think they can anymore and with our fantastic training facility and the fact young players get their chance at our club it makes sense to stay and we aren't shy to pay players what they deserve.

CL is still the thing we need to keep hold, but I think you're right with Poch at the helm and the appointment of Paul Mitchell working things behind the scenes their partnership will be something that we haven't had in a long time at the club and that is a working relationship between scouts and coaches.
 
Missed the game as was burned out from studying and insomnia. Gutted to miss yedlins debut and a rare ciriches start.

Sounds like we needed goaldado to link up our midfield and attack.Extend a lifeline to goaldado, poch?
 
Hauler said:
Hello new here! Do you really think economically we are really doing that bad? I mean we constantly have quality within in our side and I mean we have the means to pay them a fantastic salary. It would be tough for any side to resist the approach of Real Madrid who are directly responsible for poaching our best players in years gone by. Man U used to, but that seems a thing of the past. Even with a new stadium we will not be able to pay the wages Real Madrid do so even with a ground I can still see us having issues keeping players from Real Madrids clutches.

I think progressively we have made huge improvements in who is getting our players as a couple years ago Premier League clubs were able to come in and cause issue, but I don't think they can anymore and with our fantastic training facility and the fact young players get their chance at our club it makes sense to stay and we aren't shy to pay players what they deserve.

CL is still the thing we need to keep hold, but I think you're right with Poch at the helm and the appointment of Paul Mitchell working things behind the scenes their partnership will be something that we haven't had in a long time at the club and that is a working relationship between scouts and coaches.
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I think the Paul Mitchell appointment and training facility and youth development are all huge positives.

BUT with 35,000 home capacity we have a massive headwind versus the obvious big clubs. There will always be Real Madrid, Barca and the 2 plastics in the PL, but first we need to create a level playing field with Woolwich and Victimpool.

The sad fact is our revenue is c. £30m a year less than it could be. That's 2 huge signings. Imagine our current set up but playing in a larger stadium with 2 extra top class players...... 3 years, mate. 3 years and we're there. And we will have done it the right way.
 
Agreed Devon. Though I feel we are only like three signings away at the moment. I feel like some comp at left wing would be ideal as Chadli could use it and another CB with some experience and serious talent to couple Jan or if he leaves to replace him. Then a solid backup for Kane who is going to come on score goals for us. Lamela and Townsend have right wing locked, Eriksen could use some comp, but with Alex Pritchard coming back from a successful loan I could see him pushing Eriksen and Chadli, in the middle we got Tom Carroll coming back to add some depth. Get rid of the deadweight and I bet just with those funds alone we could finance a good summer.
 
Tomo said:
Levy has gone down this route by getting Poch and it would be a bloody disaster if he sacked another manager.
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I would like to see Poch get another half a season maybe more. However, I wouldn't back him financially. If he can't build a team capable of regularly outperforming teams like Villa, Burnley, Leicester and the like with the players at his disposal now then he can do one.

Funny that the Wenger example was cited when he bought instant success with a team based on almost the opposite of his ethos. Also, look at Martinez struggling more now than he did when he inherited Moyes defence to compliment his attacking ideas. Letting a manager loose to fully choose players to implement his style is rarely the answer.
 
Hauler said:
Agreed Devon. Though I feel we are only like three signings away at the moment. I feel like some comp at left wing would be ideal as Chadli could use it and another CB with some experience and serious talent to couple Jan or if he leaves to replace him. Then a solid backup for Kane who is going to come on score goals for us. Lamela and Townsend have right wing locked, Eriksen could use some comp, but with Alex Pritchard coming back from a successful loan I could see him pushing Eriksen and Chadli, in the middle we got Tom Carroll coming back to add some depth. Get rid of the deadweight and I bet just with those funds alone we could finance a good summer.
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Pritchard, Ali and Depay next season? Some hope restored, maybe? Ali and Pritchard will have to be given time to bed in. Maybe it's not all shit.
*opens seventh can of Stella and starts fight with a mirror*
 
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