****England v Italy Euros FINAL 11/07/21 8pm*****

[Crockett]

The back 7 when you're strongest areas player wise are attacking is not a decent system, it was unnecessary and cowardly, allowed England to rack up clean sheet stats against largely weak opposition, and absolutely should be thrown out.

It was boring and functional, limited Kane, and people got overexcited with wins over a past it Germany and a poor Ukraine.

England are strong at the back partly because Phillips and Rice sit in front of the centre backs. If you left Maguire and Stones to deal with attackers without cover then the defence would look more suspect.

Stones is meant to be great on the ball, but he never really brings it out and Maguire only hits long balls. Compare it to how old man Chiellini gets around the park.

If you go back to Italia 90 England played more or less the same way as they did in this tournament, but with Mark Wright in a more free role bringing the ball out while Butcher and Des Walker stayed behind and, when the full backs dropped back, Wright could also push up and challenge an opposing midfielder. England have to get much more out of John Stones basically.

 

[Airfixx]

What do you think the purpose of his tweet was then?

To answer his critics about not having the balls to take a pen.... It's there in black & white; just like the built-in defence of Gary.

My guess would be that MORE than 5 volunteered and thus Gary picked an order from there..... No 'conspiracy' required.

Do you prefer a theory that suggests Jack is lying?

 

[Football Chap]

Don't really understand some of the decisions. How shit must Calvert-Lewin be at pens in training to not justify bringing on a striker to take a pen!? Think he scored a pen in one of Englands friendly games too!

 

[Herclueless]

The one about the age of the players taking them is particularly interesting seeing as it's the YOUNG players most likely to score than the OLDER players.

Well that's one way to spend 5 years of your life...

Imagine kids sat in school...

"I want to cure cancer..."

"I want to go to Space.."

"I want to be a Doctor and save lives..."

"I want to help the homeless..."

and then this chode wants to spend 5 years watching penalties.

:bergwijnconfused:

 

[Beech]

England are strong at the back partly because Phillips and Rice sit in front of the centre backs. If you left Maguire and Stones to deal with attackers without cover then the defence would look more suspect.

Stones is meant to be great on the ball, but he never really brings it out and Maguire only hits long balls. Compare it to how old man Chiellini gets around the park.

If you go back to Italia 90 England played more or less the same way as they did in this tournament, but with Mark Wright in a more free role bringing the ball out while Butcher and Des Walker stayed behind and, when the full backs dropped back, Wright could also push up and challenge an opposing midfielder. England have to get much more out of John Stones basically.

Out of the two it's clear Maguire is the one given responsibility to move up the pitch with the ball at times though. If Stones isn't allowed to do it then it's no fault of Stones. Ultimately I want my defender to defend and Stones has done that brilliantly for the majority this tournament. I always had concerns there was a big mistake in him but that never played out. Along with the Italians our defense, including Pickford, was the best in the tournament.

 

[RealCoolYid]

Gary had a blinder up until he picked 3 kids to take the final 3 pens

I really don’t care how good they looked in training putting them in was a terrible call

however it’s cheating IMO to have Donnarumma in for penalty shootouts

seriously how fuckin good is he …. Haven’t watched him but is he as good as he’s been in this tournament?

I had oblak as my world best no1 but this fella might be even better

the pity with this one is we had it in our hands twice and couldn’t get over line Real shame

 

[Zomb]

Southgate absolutely shit the bed. I don’t blame him for Eng retreating in the second half, football and ebbs and flows and sometimes that happens but he could have changed the dynamics after 60 by bringing Grealish on.
The decision to allow two ‘cold’ subs and Saka to take pens was equally ludicrous

 

[Herclueless]

To answer his critics about not having the balls to take a pen.... It's there in black & white; just like the built-in defence of Gary.

My guess would be that MORE than 5 volunteered and thus Gary picked an order from there..... No 'conspiracy' required.

Do you prefer a theory that suggests Jack is lying?

The way I see it, his defending himself is deflecting it back onto the Manager, a Manager that has already taken that burden. He's doing that because he's took some flak, well Southgate is already getting plenty of flak for it so I don't think it's particularly fair to shovel more onto him just to sooth your own hurt ego, which I think is the sole intent from Grealish there.

His line about Southgate is a throwaway comment to try and come across as supportive, take out that platitude and then read the content, that's the real message IMO.

I don't think there is any conspiracy, or lying gone on, I jut think Grealish is protecting his ego/image by stating he said he'd take one, whilst his demeanour at the time clearly must have made the Manager feel that a clearly terrified teenager was still a better option.

 

[Crockett]

Out of the two it's clear Maguire is the one given responsibility to move up the pitch with the ball at times though. If Stones isn't allowed to do it then it's no fault of Stones. Ultimately I want my defender to defend and Stones has done that brilliantly for the majority this tournament. I always had concerns there was a big mistake in him but that never played out. Along with the Italians our defense, including Pickford, was the best in the tournament.

If Maguire is the best of the 3 at bringing the ball out that probably tells you all you need to know about Stones and Walker. All of them have positive things about them, but none of them is the real deal.

 

[ArtyB]

Forgot to say that my cousin lives near the England hotel and watched them practise their penalties on Sunday morning...dunno how well they were doing but they should have stuck at it...

 

[Beech]

If Maguire is the best of the 3 at bringing the ball out that probably tells you all you need to know about Stones and Walker. All of them have positive things about them, but none of them is the real deal.

I think they are all excellent myself. Walker especially is right up there with the best right-backs in the world, despite his lapses of concentration at times.

 

[Airfixx]

If Maguire is the best of the 3 at bringing the ball out that probably tells you all you need to know about Stones and Walker. All of them have positive things about them, but none of them is the real deal.

Dunno what you're going on about; he did a decent job of it.

All 3 had decent tournaments and that's putting it mildly.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Well that's one way to spend 5 years of your life...

Imagine kids sat in school...

"I want to cure cancer..."

"I want to go to Space.."

"I want to be a Doctor and save lives..."

"I want to help the homeless..."

and then this chode wants to spend 5 years watching penalties.

:bergwijnconfused:

haha....100% worth it IMO as the alternative is to listen to 5yrs worth of people who've never taken a pen in front of a crowd of people telling us for 5yrs how and who should take pens.

 

[Habanero]

Forgot to say that my cousin lives near the England hotel and watched them practise their penalties on Sunday morning...dunno how well they were doing but they should have stuck at it...

... or had a third Shredded Wheat instead

 

[Herclueless]

I think a lot of this discussion is oversimplifying the process of deciding your penalty takers anyway.

I'm sure there would be a rough list and pecking order, but that would always have to remain somewhat fluid due to in game occurrences, subs, injuries etc. Then come crunch time you have to reassess anyway, those on your list might have had a stinker of a game, legs might have gone, mind might have gone, some will have bottled it, your less gifted players might suddenyl look the most confident...

It's not as simple as saying that Southgate decided on the 5, I'm sure it was a collaborative decision, with input from the coaches too. Subsequently he's done the honorable leader thing and taken the responsibility himself, rather than do a Mourinho and throw the players under the bus.

 

[Don Giovanni]

They're blaming Harry for taking the first pen, "he took an easy way out"

 

[LEGO Boy]

Always a much bigger Spurs fan than England, but feel well gutted today. Even the streets where I live feel sad, empty and flat this morning. A lot of people off work, hungover, etc.

Such a glorious opportunity missed

 

[Mensa]

I place equal blame on the decision to sub Henderson back out and Rashfords poor penalty

Rashford is 24 in October, he ain’t a kid, and it’s his poor technique and miss that piled pressure on the next two who are genuine kids and should not have been 4 and 5

Henderson should have been kept on and taken 3rd one, he’s won trophies he’s been there, a cool head may have been better in the most immense of pressure

 

[ArtyB]

Always a much bigger Spurs fan than England, but feel well gutted today. Even the streets where I live feel sad, empty and flat this morning. A lot of people off work, hungover, etc.

Such a glorious opportunity missed

A much bigger Spurs fan than England...but the streets over here are filled with assholes in bowler hats marching up and down with flute bands playing tunes about shit that happened centuries ago...

 

[Crockett]

Dunno what you're going on about; he did a decent job of it.

All 3 had decent tournaments and that's putting it mildly.

Not saying Stones was bad, just that he can do more with the tools he has.
A bit like other parts of the team ... take the handbrake off and think more about positive actions not about no risks.