There was earlier this season.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
There was earlier this season.
Hindsight is 20:00 vision; if we had sold him at that time, we would have been up in arms that we had no ambition and were reverting to being a feeder club for the Mancs, as previously.
It's not really a case of hindsight Mrs P, The manager is there to ensure that the team is operating to it's best potential, and no matter how popular a player is, or unpleasant the outcome of the transfer, the really top managers make those calls.
I think our biggest problem is that as a club we're still not sure of our standing and what we are aspiring to. I feel the poch years lifted our expectations but not our thinking.
It's hindsight. Before his injuries and health issues he was an ever-present clocking up 50+ games a season and deemed by many to be a future captain.
Mrs P is right; melts would have rioted.
Think the illness more than the injuries have had a bigger impact.
I think it's also fair to suggest that previously being a valuable utility man ("key to us changing formation under Poch without the need for subs" to paraphrase a theme of the time) has rendered him a master of no particular proverbial trade... Perhaps we should thank him for that as opposed to seeing him joyously ridiculed in some quarters.
If the team plays badly it's all his fault, if we play well it's in spite of him. There's some wonderful revisionism whereby apparently he was always shit, should have been sold and will never ever be better than League One standard.
And that melting is due to us as a club and fans not knowing if we are a big club, a wee club or somewhere in between.
When this transfer was first mooted all we were worried about was Man Ure taking our player. Same thing pre season with Alderweireld. Had Man Ure signed both of them we could be on a far better curve.
You are a big fan of "hindsight", I'm a big fan of doing what is best for us and say "fuck you" to the rest.
Selling your better players and using the funds to reinvest and strengthen is a great notion, providing you are any good at scouting and signing players. I'm not so confident that had a sold both at their peak value we would have replaced them well, I think this is part of the reason for wanting to keep hold of what we've got.
I'm sorry you're just making sweeping generalisations.....
Plenty of us simply rated what he'd brought to the team (including Poch and the England set-up.... Plus, seemingly United!).
More of the same sweeping generalisations..... I also think you're confusing not wanting to help a rival with having an inferiority complex.
What you first said about mindset is interesting, but where you're falling down here is insisting on painting everyone with the same brush to prove your theory.
You might wanna explain that (and maybe consider the concept of what it actually means first!)... Afterall, I accused you of trading off of hindsight. I'm doing the exact opposite.
...And I maintain it's only hindsight that's gifting you the standpoint that we should have sold Dier....
Unless I'm wrong of course... In which case it should be easy for you to prove... Why not dig back in this thread and show me quotes where you say "sell him to United 3 years ago?
Do that and I'll happily concur I am wrong.
Last edited:
I'm not looking to prove you wrong, I'm simply saying that you have a lot of posts with "hindsight" in them
The club shouldn't be relying on hindsight, it should be pro active and able to judge when is the right time to let a player go regardless of who too and regardless of fan reaction.
If selling Kane can improve us as a team, but he goes to Man Ure we need to realise we're not Man Ure's bitches, we're not a feeder team for others, instead we're a single minded club striving for the best.
Tell me, do you think they is any chance that the reason, perhaps only reason we held on to Dier was that Poch didn't think he would get an adequate replacement or even a replacement at all?
This is something Fergie was Brilliant at, unfortunately during Pochs reign it was something we were terrible at!
You're not making any sense.... I have stated an opinion that accuses you of utilising the gift of hindsight.
How do you figure that in fact I'm the one doing so?
I'm sighting facts of the time in question. You're sighting how things subsequently played out AFTER said time as reasoning that we should have done X 3 years ago.....
That's the very definition of the proverbial "gift of hindsight".
If you aren't invested in being right, you wouldn't be continuing this debate.... If you believed Dier should have been sold back then it should be easily proven with a quick search of this thread.
They're not. The only one relying on hindsight is those effectively saying "Dier in 2020 is shit; ergo we should have sold him in 2016".
I dunno; that would entail a pretty heavy degree of guess-work on my part; thus being pretty futile. As I've already pointed out though; Poch evidently thought a lot of the player to play him as consistently as he did. Regardless, not sure what that's got to do with the original concept you were seeking to establish about the fear of being Utd's bitch.
You want any proof of how a) Dier's sale would have been received by factions of the fanbase or b) whether the club is prepared to sell to a rival see K.Walker.... Some are still pissing and moaning about it now - even though he actively wanted out.
Re-cycling the squad yeh, but that's an entirely separate matter to that which
Reidy
began claiming; i.e. That fans and club were in fear of being seen to be Utd's "bitch".And yet there are plenty of posts on here fearing that exact thing.Re-cycling the squad yeh, but that's an entirely separate matter to that which
The names Carrick and Berbatov are constantly brought up as an example of that.
....And what about Poch? You think he'd even know of either of those sales?
Anyway, if you wanna bring up other posts, like I say; let's see yours from 3 years ago saying we should sell Dier.
Do that and (as the kidz would say) you'll have "owned" me.
The big big mistake was making him think he was a utility player. We should have put him in the back three when we were playing that style of play and kept him in the back line. I truly believe we stunted his growth.
Ironically it was the growth that we didn't stunt that was probably his main issue...
Seems to have gotten a handle on it over the break though, good on him, and fingers crossed for a return to his best form.
I LOVE ERIC DIER, ERIC DIER LOVES ME...and if ya dont agree his brother will duff you up. 