Gylfi Sigurðsson

[MemphisWill]

That's what we do in society with groups of people, who are vastly more overrepresented in crimes. Straight up talking about the mere allegation as a hate-crime in itself.

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. My ending point was not as clear as it could have been - to be clear, I do not acknowledge the validity of the idea that, because its a minority (though still a very statistically significant) percentage of the population that are guilty of committing sexual abuse, that there is nothing to be done and that we need to stop being so hard on men when most of them aren't committing these crimes.

100% this is a reflection of our society shaming women's sexuality and centuries of societal conditioning regarding their sexuality as A) a property, not of their possession, that is transactional in nature and B ) a key metric of their self worth they are to protect - not for their own health but to protect the transactional value of their sexuality. The above contributes directly to your point about "slut shaming", a promiscuous woman is shamed because she is devaluing her sexuality which has been culturally normalized for a very long time as not her property.

I 100% agree with your point about allegations of sexual assaults being extremely damaging, whether they're true or not. This is a symptom of a general issue with public information in the 21st century. Its not really new, just more rampant, wide spread, and more common because everyone is a media member now. But the old adage that everyone reads the headline and no one reads the retraction holds firm.

So what do we do? Well, I don't know. But 30% of sexual abuses being reported is actually our society's high water mark thus far, which is damning. Women have been suffering ridicule, disbelief, and shame for being victims for eons - so why is there so much pushback when a few innocent men begin to suffer the consequences of false allegations? It isn't right, not at all.

But more sexual assaults being reported is good. When 7 of 10 abuse victims are afraid to come forward, we have a massive issue. And we need to spend more energy worrying about that than false accusations. In a perfect world we could fix both. But as far as priorities go, encouraging victims to come forward, investigating the crimes with the seriousness they deserve, and prosecuting the offenders as strictly as possible should all come ahead of worrying about the Twitter mob.

 

[NorseYid]

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. My ending point was not as clear as it could have been - to be clear, I do not acknowledge the validity of the idea that, because its a minority (though still a very statistically significant) percentage of the population that are guilty of committing sexual abuse, that there is nothing to be done and that we need to stop being so hard on men when most of them aren't committing these crimes.

But how? When we are not willing to make that logical deduction on other topics in society?

Hell, we are not even willing to apply it on the finer numbers of sexual assaults themselves?

I 100% agree with your point about allegations of sexual assaults being extremely damaging, whether they're true or not...

For the record, I didn't make that point.

Rather, I made the point that we are not willing to deal with confronting the actual numbers and groups commiting them, for a vast variety of good and bad reasons. Nobody, across the political spectrum are willing to make it because everyone knows it will hit themselves or a core voter group.

Which basically just parks the problem in no mands land. And the victims too.

 

[MemphisWill]

But how? When we are not willing to make that logical deduction on other topics in society?

Hell, we are not even willing to apply it on the finer numbers of sexual assaults themselves?




For the record, I didn't make that point.

Rather, I made the point that we are not willing to deal with confronting the actual numbers and groups commiting them, for a vast variety of good and bad reasons. Nobody, across the political spectrum are willing to make it because everyone knows it will hit themselves or a core voter group.

Which basically just parks the problem in no mands land. And the victims too.

So now I'm really not clear with what you're identifying as the "groups committing them"? You seem to be insinuating that there's a specific demographic, or maybe several specific demographics, responsible for the majority of sexual abuse...but seem to be unwilling to identify those groups. Ironically, the same failing you're accusing society at large of?

 

[NorseYid]

So now I'm really not clear with what you're identifying as the "groups committing them"? You seem to be insinuating that there's a specific demographic, or maybe several specific demographics, responsible for the majority of sexual abuse...but seem to be unwilling to identify those groups. Ironically, the same failing you're accusing society at large of?

No.

You specifically repeated, that the mere fact that 2% men commit these crimes, shouldn't stop us from "being so hard on" men.

I politely hinted at, that we stop from doing exactly that in other walks of society.

So what is it gonna be then? Are we or are we not gonna draw generalisations from the actions of minorities?

 

[MemphisWill]

No.

You specifically repeated, that the mere fact that 2% men commit these crimes, shouldn't stop us from "being so hard on" men.

I politely hinted at, that we stop from doing exactly that in other walks of society.

So what is it gonna be then? Are we or are we not gonna draw generalisations from the actions of minorities?

We're talking about totally different things I feel. I'm not sure what you're really alluding to, what specific crimes, what specific demographics, and what specific remediations you're talking about.

 

[HampshireSpur]

On the contrary, if you look at actual statistics of cases vs population, it becomes clear how few men actually do this (sexual crimes). Something like less than 2%, which means upwards of 98% are not an issue.

Yikes. What a crazy post.

 

[NorseYid]

We're talking about totally different things I feel. I'm not sure what you're really alluding to, what specific crimes, what specific demographics, and what specific remediations you're talking about.

We are talking about drawing wide generalisation from the actions of few.

That's not different things at all. So is it or isn't it ok?

 

[Mandy]

On the contrary, if you look at actual statistics of cases vs population, it becomes clear how few men actually do this (sexual crimes). Something like less than 2%, which means upwards of 98% are not an issue.

Have you got a link for that data please? I find it hard to believe it’s that low to be honest, and even if it is correct it’s still a significant number. It’s well over 1 million people who think it’s acceptable to commit sexual violence against another person.

I also call bollocks on your claim that sex crimes are intensely punished because they really are not. Sexual assault and rape have some of the lowest conviction rates in the uk with around 5% of reported cases actually getting guilty verdicts. Considering that roughly 85% of sexual violence is actually unreported that’s an incredibly poor conviction rate.

Sadly here you’ve highlighted exactly why it becomes ‘men’ that are the problem; far too many men in particular try to excuse the behaviour of others, won’t intervene to stop crimes being committed by people they know, or will victim blame. By taking those stances instead of condemning the perpetrators you become part of the problem not part of the solution.

 

[Matt1882]

I can't ever see the day when i will want to give up like that and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way, each to their own. I have a family, wife, great job etc, but need to have that 1 night out a week where i get some rock n roll..... never been one for nightclubs (other than back in the ravey days), but just love the vibe of being out in scruffy alt/dive bars, being around people, good music etc. My wife is 12 years younger than me, but she might say she struggles to keep up with me sometimes, but i am someone who always has bundles of energy...... just not right now with Covid ofc.....

I don't get any kind of kick out of drinking loads. My wife took the kiddy to her parents boat for a week and all I did was put my feet up and enjoy the peace, quiet and total lack of mess.

 

[LuckyMe]

I see that bail has been extended again, pushing it towards a year after the arrest, before anything is happening. Which has me puzzled. And curious.

If someone has expertise in the legal system and/or police work, could you explain how this is happening? Is this sort of timeframe for such an investigation par for the course? My gut feeling - based only on the time passed - would be that the police are scrambling and struggling to make a case. Pure layman though.

Should preface the last bit by saying that I obviously don't want him to have any sort of compensation, if he gets off on a technicality or due to a lack of solid evidence. That said, where would he stand if they completely drop the case? Running this public of a figure through the ringer with precisely this accusation, plus his income isn't exactly small.

 

[Geof]

under my radar Mind you, haven't heard of him for a while.

 

[Andersen]

No.

You specifically repeated, that the mere fact that 2% men commit these crimes, shouldn't stop us from "being so hard on" men.

I politely hinted at, that we stop from doing exactly that in other walks of society.

So what is it gonna be then? Are we or are we not gonna draw generalisations from the actions of minorities?

You are a complete idiot!

 

[Andersen]

NorseYid Before you get your knickers in a twist.
I made more sense in 20 words than your essay.

 

[Seven Sisters]

I see that bail has been extended again, pushing it towards a year after the arrest, before anything is happening. Which has me puzzled. And curious.

If someone has expertise in the legal system and/or police work, could you explain how this is happening? Is this sort of timeframe for such an investigation par for the course? My gut feeling - based only on the time passed - would be that the police are scrambling and struggling to make a case. Pure layman though.

Should preface the last bit by saying that I obviously don't want him to have any sort of compensation, if he gets off on a technicality or due to a lack of solid evidence. That said, where would he stand if they completely drop the case? Running this public of a figure through the ringer with precisely this accusation, plus his income isn't exactly small.

The Criminal Justice System is on its knees, and delays of this length are not unusual. The Justice Secretary likes to make it seem that it’s “because Covid” but there was an horrendous backlog in the system before then.

Covid meant that jury trials were largely suspended (because the integrity of the process means everyone has to be in the same place to hear a case). So this exacerbated the problem.

There are now 10’s of thousands of cases that are being listed for trial in 2023+, which increases the likelihood of witnesses forgetting what they saw, defendants and victims dying before justice is served, or victims simply giving up.

Currently the independent Bar (barristers who prosecute and defend the most complicated criminal cases) are taking industrial action, where they refuse to accept ‘returns’ (work that was previously assigned to another barrister but that the original barrister cannot ‘get to’ because of other commitments (eg another over running trial).

Funding for the whole system (police, courts, CPS, judiciary etc) is inadequate but traditional Tory voters want their government to be ‘tough on crime’, so they don’t like the idea of spending money on making criminals’ lives more comfortable.

Which is all well and good, until it’s your daughter / sister / wife / friend that is the victim of a crime and she is told she is unlikely to get the offender into court for perhaps years. Or where you are wrongly accused of a crime, but have to wait for years before you can clear your name (with obvious impact on job searches etc).

And the length of the delays mean that people who are accused of crimes enter not guilty pleas, knowing that the longer their case goes on, the greater the likelihood of it not being proved. So this just means more people who would have said “it’s a fair cop” are having a punt on the case against them failing, adding to the numbers in the system.

If you’re interested there’s a Twitter whistleblower called “The Secret Barrister” who explains it all far better than I can.

 

[NorseYid]

You are a complete idiot!

Logging on at 4 AM to abuse other members on 7 month old posts.

That's not even being bitter. That's just stalking down to the incel level.

 

[LuckyMe]

The Criminal Justice System is on its knees, and delays of this length are not unusual. The Justice Secretary likes to make it seem that it’s “because Covid” but there was an horrendous backlog in the system before then.

Covid meant that jury trials were largely suspended (because the integrity of the process means everyone has to be in the same place to hear a case). So this exacerbated the problem.

There are now 10’s of thousands of cases that are being listed for trial in 2023+, which increases the likelihood of witnesses forgetting what they saw, defendants and victims dying before justice is served, or victims simply giving up.

Currently the independent Bar (barristers who prosecute and defend the most complicated criminal cases) are taking industrial action, where they refuse to accept ‘returns’ (work that was previously assigned to another barrister but that the original barrister cannot ‘get to’ because of other commitments (eg another over running trial).

Funding for the whole system (police, courts, CPS, judiciary etc) is inadequate but traditional Tory voters want their government to be ‘tough on crime’, so they don’t like the idea of spending money on making criminals’ lives more comfortable.

Which is all well and good, until it’s your daughter / sister / wife / friend that is the victim of a crime and she is told she is unlikely to get the offender into court for perhaps years. Or where you are wrongly accused of a crime, but have to wait for years before you can clear your name (with obvious impact on job searches etc).

And the length of the delays mean that people who are accused of crimes enter not guilty pleas, knowing that the longer their case goes on, the greater the likelihood of it not being proved. So this just means more people who would have said “it’s a fair cop” are having a punt on the case against them failing, adding to the numbers in the system.

If you’re interested there’s a Twitter whistleblower called “The Secret Barrister” who explains it all far better than I can.

Thanks. That's well and truly messed up. Mostly for victims, obviously. But also in the cases, where someone is innocent and has it hanging over their head.

 

[RealCoolYid]

I see that bail has been extended again, pushing it towards a year after the arrest, before anything is happening. Which has me puzzled. And curious.

If someone has expertise in the legal system and/or police work, could you explain how this is happening? Is this sort of timeframe for such an investigation par for the course? My gut feeling - based only on the time passed - would be that the police are scrambling and struggling to make a case. Pure layman though.

Should preface the last bit by saying that I obviously don't want him to have any sort of compensation, if he gets off on a technicality or due to a lack of solid evidence. That said, where would he stand if they completely drop the case? Running this public of a figure through the ringer with precisely this accusation, plus his income isn't exactly small.

It’ll be the queue to do the forensic searches on his devices - that’s all

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

Logging on at 4 AM to abuse other members on 7 month old posts.

That's not even being bitter. That's just stalking down to the incel level.

He's all over the place. I don't think anyone on here cares about what he had to say.

 

[Raiders]

I see that bail has been extended again, pushing it towards a year after the arrest, before anything is happening. Which has me puzzled. And curious.

If someone has expertise in the legal system and/or police work, could you explain how this is happening? Is this sort of timeframe for such an investigation par for the course? My gut feeling - based only on the time passed - would be that the police are scrambling and struggling to make a case. Pure layman though.

Should preface the last bit by saying that I obviously don't want him to have any sort of compensation, if he gets off on a technicality or due to a lack of solid evidence. That said, where would he stand if they completely drop the case? Running this public of a figure through the ringer with precisely this accusation, plus his income isn't exactly small.

Entirely normal.

 

[Murphy]

Entirely normal.

I had a looked after child that had a court case that took about five years from offence to "conviction". He got 3 years. You can guess what he did.