Harry Winks

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Winks is a tidy player, but because of our feeble squad he is being asked to do a job that doesn't suit him. All our midfielders have looked shit for the last year because we don't have a single one that has a defensive instinct or the aggression to recover the ball. The balance is not there and for months Sissoko, Winks and Lo Celso are being asked to do what Wanyama and Dembele used to do which is totally impossible.

This team needs a powerful midfielder who can read the game and protect our defence. That is how both Poch and Mourinho always played. This squad simply doesn't have that player. We all thought Dier might be able to do it but he isn't mobile enough and he's shown his true position is CB.

Winks will be fine when he can play without the responsibility of being our most defensive midfielder.

It's driving me nuts that both have developed a blind spot as to what allowed their respective philosophies to tick.....

I said all January; give me a boss DM over a striker.... I stand by that even now....

Even with the accumulated injuries; Dele, Lucas, Lamela, GLC & Ndombele have enough creativity and quality to score goals for us if we could become less easy to breach and give them a little more breathing space to build upon.

We lose the MF battle every week (or have it bypassed altogether); equally this just adds further pressure to the defense.
 
He is far from a world-beater, but players like Winks will always get underestimated; a bit like Michael Carrick, even when he was 30+ year old many football fans were asking what he actually adds to a team while people like Sir Alex, Mourinho, Guardiola etc. really rated him.

I see where you're coming from and I don't think Winks deserves the hate he receives, however I do think recently he has really limited himself in his output both defensively and offensively. I think he needs to get back to the drawing board and focus on what makes him useful as a player.

The reason that Carrick, Modric, Iniesta and players in that mould are so good is because their footballing intelligence allows them to play simple passes which are incredibly effective in moving their team forward. Winks plays safe/backwards far too much for a 'metronome' style player which adds nothing other than to start again. In addition to this, he also suffers a bit from a lack of space-finding ability where the aforementioned players were always excellent. It's one thing to move the game forward via passes, but also with your off-ball movement and making options for receiving the ball.

Given his age and application I think there's certainly a player in there worth persisting with, but in the current Spurs climate where our midfield is so weak and we're at a bit of a crisis point it's very difficult for somebody lacking identity like Winks to make any impression.
 
I see where you're coming from and I don't think Winks deserves the hate he receives, however I do think recently he has really limited himself in his output both defensively and offensively. I think he needs to get back to the drawing board and focus on what makes him useful as a player.

The reason that Carrick, Modric, Iniesta and players in that mould are so good is because their footballing intelligence allows them to play simple passes which are incredibly effective in moving their team forward. Winks plays safe/backwards far too much for a 'metronome' style player which adds nothing other than to start again. In addition to this, he also suffers a bit from a lack of space-finding ability where the aforementioned players were always excellent. It's one thing to move the game forward via passes, but also with your off-ball movement and making options for receiving the ball.

Given his age and application I think there's certainly a player in there worth persisting with, but in the current Spurs climate where our midfield is so weak and we're at a bit of a crisis point it's very difficult for somebody lacking identity like Winks to make any impression.
He also struggling in his defence positioning
 
Winks stuggles all around. He is too lightweight, and insecure on the ball. He can't shoot or pass a ball more than 6 yards. Have you ever seen Winks dribble? Well i struggle to understand what some fans see in him.
 
Airfix, fixy, fixator, bro! stop it. He is almost always one of the bottom 3 players in matches. The way he bounces of players and fall to the ground giving them a run through the middle is embarassing to watch.

Yet we've seen him be excellent on a multitude of occasions and two managers in a row have blatantly see value in him.... Ergo he is evident a serviceable squad member.

The fact you labelled him "the worst Spurs player ever" only serves to belittle your assessment.
 
I feel for Winks after reading through this thread a bit more. I honestly think he would be much better provided with a decent CB / DMF pairing. Hasn't really had the chances to become a play maker this year though to be fair, everyone is just so busy trying to cover everyone else while they run around like headless chickens.


Also I feel like his place on the squad is fairly safe as long as the home grown rule is implemented.
 
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Airfix, fixy, fixator, bro! stop it. He is almost always one of the bottom 3 players in matches. The way he bounces of players and fall to the ground giving them a run through the middle is embarassing to watch.

List all those game where Winks has been in the bottom three either on OPTA or WHOSCORED, he may not often be the best rated but he's never the worst, and very rarely bottom three (maybe Wolves and Bayern this season) ... just making stuff up doesn't help your argument ...
 
List all those game where Winks has been in the bottom three either on OPTA or WHOSCORED, he may not often be the best rated but he's never the worst, and very rarely bottom three (maybe Wolves and Bayern this season) ... just making stuff up doesn't help your argument ...
I dont have access to opta stats. So lets look at Whoscored then. He is currently the 19th best player in our squad according to their ratings.

Then what you do is discard the names who have more sub appearances than starts. Whoscored gives a nominal 6 to someone who has not even played 2 minutes as a sub which fucks up their averages.

That still leaves Winks at 19th with only Sessegnon behind him in the whole squad.

Oh and hes not 'rarely bottom 3' . Just had a quick look. Last 10 PL matches, he was bottom 3 for 5 of them, bottom 5 for 9 of them, and not once was he in the top 5 players.
 
I dont have access to opta stats. So lets look at Whoscored then. He is currently the 19th best player in our squad according to their ratings.

Then what you do is discard the names who have more sub appearances than starts. Whoscored gives a nominal 6 to someone who has not even played 2 minutes as a sub which fucks up their averages.

That still leaves Winks at 19th with only Sessegnon behind him in the whole squad.

Oh and hes not 'rarely bottom 3' . Just had a quick look. Last 10 PL matches, he was bottom 3 for 5 of them, bottom 5 for 9 of them, and not once was he in the top 5 players.
No he wasn't ... list the matches
 
He's a player you bring on for the last 20 or 30 minutes of a game you are leading and you want to take the sting out of it. His problem is that he isn't hard enough or progressive enough to be a DM and he's a bit too negative to be a central midfielder for 90 minutes.
 
Will never be good enough to be a starter for us he's a decent option against lesser teams. But he can't pass can't shoot can't tackle well.

Needs to be moved on or demoted to the bench by a new buy simple as
 
No he wasn't ... list the matches
These are his last 10 PL starts with the most recent ones first. Compared to the other 10 starters hes been in the bottom 3 or bottom half more often than not. Of course this is based on the whoscored.com that you suggested to look at.

vs Wolves - Bottom 3
vs Chelsea - Bottom 2
vs Villa - Bottom 4th
vs Mancity - Bottom 3
vs Norwich - Exactly in the middle - 5 were better 5 were worse
vs Watford - Worst player
vs liverpool - Bottom 4th
vs Brighton - Bottom 5th
vs manu - bottom 5th
vs westham - bottom 2

I remember him playign 1 or 2 good games much much earlier in the season with poch, but its not enough to compensate for the trash he usually produces.

And like i said, his average for the season is better than only Sessegnon's in the whole squad. Even Dier rates higher.
 
These are his last 10 PL starts with the most recent ones first. Compared to the other 10 starters hes been in the bottom 3 or bottom half more often than not. Of course this is based on the whoscored.com that you suggested to look at.

vs Wolves - Bottom 3
vs Chelsea - Bottom 2
vs Villa - Bottom 4th
vs Mancity - Bottom 3
vs Norwich - Exactly in the middle - 5 were better 5 were worse
vs Watford - Worst player
vs liverpool - Bottom 4th
vs Brighton - Bottom 5th
vs manu - bottom 5th
vs westham - bottom 2

I remember him playign 1 or 2 good games much much earlier in the season with poch, but its not enough to compensate for the trash he usually produces.

And like i said, his average for the season is better than only Sessegnon's in the whole squad. Even Dier rates higher.

So when you said "He is almost always one of the bottom 3 players" that wasn't true ... even with you ignoring other matches he still isn't almost always in the bottom three ... in fact this season in all games it's about 33% of the time ... hyperbole over reality

thanks for making the effort, very few do, as you show he's mid-low in our player rankings for sure there's room for improvement, a decent CDM would be a good start.
 
So when you said "He is almost always one of the bottom 3 players" that wasn't true ... even with you ignoring other matches he still isn't almost always in the bottom three ... in fact this season in all games it's about 33% of the time ... hyperbole over reality

thanks for making the effort, very few do, as you show he's mid-low in our player rankings for sure there's room for improvement, a decent CDM would be a good start.
You are right. Comments like 'hes almost always the bottom 3 player' or 'omg hes the worst ever' arent based on stats that i have looked at or anything. Just comments based on how annoyed I or others are when he does something ridiculously bad.

Havin said that! He is still the 19th player with only Sess below over the course of the season. While these rating systems arent perfect at all , it does show something when the likes of Dier, Ndombele etc who are all having bad seasons are rating higher than him.
 
Airfix, fixy, fixator, bro! stop it. He is almost always one of the bottom 3 players in matches. The way he bounces of players and fall to the ground giving them a run through the middle is embarassing to watch.
not as embarrassing as your non existent footballing knowledge.
A poster truly bereft of any kind of comprehension

Like most limited onlookers you simply see what you want to see and block out anything else.
 
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