Harry Winks

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his best years as a holding midfield player are yet to come
yea in the championship.

a bunch of europa league games against farmers and a game where son and kane was on absolute fire is your claim to winks adding value? thank god he didnt play at old trafford or that demolition job would never of happened.

by smooth sailing im talking about actually in control of a game, not a win streak which would of taken a moment of brilliance from an individual to pull us over the line in a game. theres only been 2 this year and thats united and west ham until winks came on...there will be plenty more tho thats for sure 😁
 
That's a biased way to view it.... As per the point you replied to; the goal that his error was a part of was no more costly than the 2 that preceded it.

A scoreline is decided upon an accumulation of goals conceeded.

If the 1st or 2nd goal had been handled better then the 3rd wouldn't have proven a pivotal moment.

Like you say, it's a 90minute game.
Surely a mistake on the last second of the game where all he has to do is kick the ball away is much bigger than one that happened earlier.

He is progressively playing worse for us. Its not me that decides if he plays or not. Its the manager thats not starting him in the league anymore. I just happen to agree with Jose in what he is doing.
 
I mean, shall we leave behind this obsessional nostalgia for players who are clearly below the relative required level.

We always have one in the squad traditionally.... We love to back a trier, "he gets it", he's relatable... one of our own... But objectively, through unbiased eyes.... isn't really ever going to be at the level we need to be to win the biggest prizes.

And now we are no longer using integrity as a crutch. Doing things the "right way" as something to hold on to in absence of what 99% of football supporters actually consider to be what the game is about. Surely being ruthless about where the squad can be improved is part of what we are at the moment.

I like Winks, he is the definition of a player who can have a great game without ever being noticed. A statsbomb dream i'm sure..... but he's not Modric, he's not Carrick. He's not gonna turn into Xavi with a run of games under his belt. And he can definatley be improved upon without breaking the bank.
 
And yet multiple managers, club and England (who in their waking seconds know a million times more about football than any of us), call on him.

Because he won't ever let them down. Pim pam, pim pam, a solid 6.5 out of 10. Game in, game out.
But Jose isnt starting Winks in the PL much now in more than a month. So you are right , Jose knows more and has figured out what to do with Winks.
 
yea in the championship.

a bunch of europa league games against farmers and a game where son and kane was on absolute fire is your claim to winks adding value? thank god he didnt play at old trafford or that demolition job would never of happened.

by smooth sailing im talking about actually in control of a game, not a win streak which would of taken a moment of brilliance from an individual to pull us over the line in a game. theres only been 2 this year and thats united and west ham until winks came on...there will be plenty more tho thats for sure 😁
Moronic response ..... I listed the games Winks played and you talk about games he didn't play in .... are you an idiot or don't you understand that a player only really impacts games when he's playing?

Mourinho knows PEH is better than Winks it's why he's now benched in the EPL ... nobody is saying Winks is the next Pele, just that he isn't the next Ali Dia

You have no clue what you're talking about - look at our best league run in years, last season after the Covid break, and Winks played more minutes than all but three players .... was that against against a bunch of EPL farmers?

You are clueless, and what's worse when provided with the very evidence you requested, you simply ignore it and continue with your totally unsupported drivel .... that's now just trolling not worthy of further response.
 
Moronic response ..... I listed the games Winks played and you talk about games he didn't play in .... are you an idiot or don't you understand that a player only really impacts games when he's playing?

You have no clue what you're talking about - look at our best league run in years, last season after the Covid break, and Winks played more minutes than all but three players .... was that against against a bunch of EPL farmers?

You are clueless, and what's worse when provided with the very evidence you requested, you simply ignore it and continue with your totally unsupported drivel .... that's now just trolling not worthy of further response.
yes i list the two games this season we totally dominated to highlight that the team is far more dominant without him in the team...proving the point!

evidence?? hahahahah!

end of the day the man who matters has got him, sanchez and dele nailed for exactly what they are. so tough shit for you little fan boys that either care more about players than the club or just do not have a clue what youre watching.
 
yes i list the two games this season we totally dominated to highlight that the team is far more dominant without him in the team...proving the point!

evidence?? hahahahah!

end of the day the man who matters has got him, sanchez and dele nailed for exactly what they are. so tough shit for you little fan boys that either care more about players than the club or just do not have a clue what youre watching.

You do know we had a better record without Kane than with Kane last season - is a moronic 'little fanboy' like you going to advocate that Kane is shit and should be dropped based on the games he didn't play in ...

Could you be anymore stupid? is that even possible?

FYI - KDB, Fernandes, Grealish didn't play in any of those games either, so by your bizarre logic you must be glad we don't have any of them in our squad ... what an idiot, who ranks players by what happens when they don't play? give me strength.
 
You do know we had a better record without Kane than with Kane last season - is a moronic 'little fanboy' like you going to advocate that Kane is shit and should be dropped based on the games he didn't play in ...

Could you be anymore stupid? is that even possible?

FYI - KDB, Fernandes, Grealish didn't play in any of those games either, so by your bizarre logic you must be glad we don't have any of them in our squad ... what an idiot, who ranks players by what happens when they don't play? give me strength.
youre pretty special ill give you that! ill leave you with this seeing as you like stats so much as you clearly cant see whats happening in a game of football. these are stats from a midfielder by the way not a goalkeeper.

appearances 98
Goals2
Wins58
Losses23

Team Play
Assists2
Passes4,300
Passes per match43.88
Big Chances Created3
Crosses54
Cross accuracy %17%
Through balls11
 
Surely a mistake on the last second of the game where all he has to do is kick the ball away is much bigger than one that happened earlier.

Nope. A goal is a goal...... If goal #2 doesn't happen then 3-3 doesn't happen either.

He is progressively playing worse for us. Its not me that decides if he plays or not. Its the manager thats not starting him in the league anymore. I just happen to agree with Jose in what he is doing.

Convenient... It's funny how people aren't so humble regarding managerial decisions in similar scenarios regarding Sissko, Aurier, Lucas, Dier etc. etc. etc... Or with Winks when he was more regularly being picked.

Like i reminded someone else earlier in this thread today; there is no crusade to play him or rush him back into the first XI so you and a number of others needn't storm this thread every few days and act like their is.
 
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youre pretty special ill give you that! ill leave you with this seeing as you like stats so much as you clearly cant see whats happening in a game of football. these are stats from a midfielder by the way not a goalkeeper.

appearances 98
Goals2
Wins58
Losses23

Team Play
Assists2
Passes4,300
Passes per match43.88
Big Chances Created3
Crosses54
Cross accuracy %17%
Through balls11
You seem to be the guy that would advocate selling Lloris because he's not scoring.
 
You seem to be the guy that would advocate selling Lloris because he's not scoring.

Indeed.

Well, apparently a who's been played as a DM for a number of years now should be regularly putting crosses in and creating "big chances"... And when he does and it leads to a goal (see last night) he's still undermined.
 
Indeed.

Well, apparently a who's been played as a DM for a number of years now should be regularly putting crosses in and creating "big chances"... And when he does and it leads to a goal (see last night) he's still undermined.
i would expect a midfielder whos meant to be a 'passer' to have better stats than that yes.
2 assists, 3 big chances created and 11 through balls out of 98 games. well let him off though for the protection he supplies the back four with :mourthumb:
 
Nope. A goal is a goal...... If goal #2 doesn't happen then 3-3 doesn't happen either.



Convenient... It's funny how people aren't so humble regarding managerial decisions in similar scenarios regarding Sissko, Aurier, Lucas, Dier etc. etc. etc... Or with Winks when he was more regularly being picked.

Like i reminded someone else earlier in this thread today; there is no crusade to play him or rush him back into the first XI so you and a number of others needn't storm this thread every few days and act like their is.
Dont agree with the a goal is a goal theory. A goal scored at 5-0 to make it 6-0 is not as important as the goal score to make it 1-0 from 0-0.

And similarly its easier to look past a mistake made at 3-0 than a mistake made at 3-2 on the last minute by someone who played only 17 minutes when all they had to do was kick it high into the sky.
 
youre pretty special ill give you that! ill leave you with this seeing as you like stats so much as you clearly cant see whats happening in a game of football. these are stats from a midfielder by the way not a goalkeeper.

appearances 98
Goals2
Wins58
Losses23

Team Play
Assists2
Passes4,300
Passes per match43.88
Big Chances Created3
Crosses54
Cross accuracy %17%
Through balls11

What a tool - a set of statistics with no point of reference, no comparison, and no conclusions - about as useless as a chocolate teapot, or in this case a poster named daveyboy88
 
What a tool - a set of statistics with no point of reference, no comparison, and no conclusions - about as useless as a chocolate teapot, or in this case a poster named daveyboy88
hahaha so you actually need comparisons for you to understand them stats are horrific for a so called 'passer' in midfield.

youre beyond help! clueless little twerp. as said before, jose has sorted it all out now anyway. thankfully hes the complete opposite of people like yourself. ;)
 
hahaha so you actually need comparisons for you to understand them stats are horrific for a so called 'passer' in midfield.

youre beyond help! clueless little twerp. as said before, jose has sorted it all out now anyway. thankfully hes the complete opposite of people like yourself. ;)
Of course you need comparison you idiot .... if a forward makes zero saves? or a defender scores zero goals? who gives a flying feck?

In this case you need to compare Winks a holding midfield player with similar players ... it's simple common sense, it's why he gets picked by every manager who's had that opportunity.

Probably beyond you as you can't fix stupid, and as your insane comments indicate you're clearly very badly broken .....

FYI - in 2019/20 in the EPL Winks had Spurs highest completed passing rate at 92% - not bad for a "so called passer" being the best at what you are supposed to do is appreciated by anyone with more than a couple of working brain-cells ... but not you?

2018-2019 Tottenham Hotspur Stats, Premier League | FBref.com
 
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As an old cunt, I'm going to go back to the 80s, when I used to go to Spurs quite a bit. I lived in Hackney, I was piss poor for a lot of the time (and a fair bit of my meagre disposable income went on on wine, women and Class B, so I'm not going to claim to be a regular, although it was always the Park Lane end of the Shelf for me back in the day).

These were the days of a Perryman-Ardiles central midfield. Magnificent, we've never seen two legends like that together since (and probably hadn't since Blanchflower and Mackay). The point of this post is that no one wondered why they didn't score more goals, or moan when they passed the ball backwards. There in the ground you could see what they did and the whole ground loved them. If they were missing (be that through injury, suspension or just a poor game) you noticed it.

I saw tons of games where either one or the other didn't have a noticeable "TV style" impact on the game but you still knew they were a key part in everything else that was happening. Just see how Glenn talks about them, and they about him.

(As a quick aside, I'd like to mention that not everybody was fully aboard the Hoddle-As-Genius bus. There used to be a lot of moaning about him in the early 80s on the terraces, "Glenda", "Doesn't get stuck in" and so forth. Perhaps other old schoolers can confirm this.)

I'm not suggesting for a second that Winks is the new Stevie or Ossie, god forbid, just that it strikes me that tidy central midfielders who kept the ball moving, who generally found better placed team mates, who did their best to cover their defence, who passed back when they wanted to stretch the opposition and all that were more recognised back then.

Younguns - watch a full game or extended highlights from those days. See how often these players trapped the ball, looked around and played a simple pass sideways or even - GOD NO, backwards - to a team mate.

See also: David Howells (who got a fair bit of grief too, often unjustifiably so). Maybe it's to do with greater TV coverage and the balance between the opinions of those at the ground and those watching on the box having shifted.

Like Howells, Harry Winks is Tottenham in ways we can only dream about. Is he the new Osvaldo Ardiles? Of course not, he'd be the first to admit that. Is he a versatile, dependable midfielder who managers love because he does what they tell him to, to the best of his abilities? Certainly.

Is he currently better than Højbjerg, Lo Celso, Ndombele in his current form? No. Can he play a hugely valuable part in covering those players? Yes of course. Will he fuck up massively in doing so? Unlikely.

The worst he'll be is steady, unspectacular, pim-pam, keeping the ball moving, making pretty intelligent decisions based on how he sees the game in front of him. That's more than fine with me.

Rant over

:kanegoal:
Great post
 
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