Is it just me ?

[Johnboy40]

I've said it in the VAR thread but what they need to do now is give everyone access to the mic feed from all the officials.

This would mean that the refs know we're all listening and will bring a level of accountability.

Get a red button feed for those watching at home. Broadcasters can clip any relevant sections around marginal/controversial calls to show the discussions the refs had at the time.

If they are saying 'Give the handball against them...it's Spurs' at least we'd know for sure then

The amazing thing, that they've missed, is that you can make money off it. Every rugby game I've been to at twickers, they sell the ref link reciever so you can listen in.

I did read somewhere that the PFA had objected to it (probably because they woukdnt get a cut, or cos we woukd find out what cocks some players actually are)
But yeah, sell a reflink headset or app and broadcast the refs mic.

 

[Billy Bob mate]

The amazing thing, that they've missed, is that you can make money off it. Every rugby game I've been to at twickers, they sell the ref link reciever so you can listen in.

I did read somewhere that the PFA had objected to it (probably because they woukdnt get a cut, or cos we woukd find out what cocks some players actually are)
But yeah, sell a reflink headset or app and broadcast the refs mic.

Rugby is the ideal example. It works well there.

Of course the players will protest but it not like we can't see them acting like knobs anyway. Most of the time the lip reading is pretty simple!

So even if they throw that argument in, along with the fact viewers may hear swears, then the response should be that the players need to grow up and stop acting like pricks then.

It could, if desired, clean up that part of the game - player gets heard insulting the ref = a ban.

We hear plenty of swearing with no crowd noise now anyway

 

[Johnboy40]

Rugby is the ideal example. It works well there.

Of course the players will protest but it not like we can't see them acting like knobs anyway. Most of the time the lip reading is pretty simple!

So even if they throw that argument in, along with the fact viewers may hear swears, then the response should be that the players need to grow up and stop acting like pricks then.

It could, if desired, clean up that part of the game - player gets heard insulting the ref = a ban.

We hear plenty of swearing with no crowd noise now anyway

Even cricket (International games) you can buy a reciever that links up with a localised broadcast of the TV and Radio commentary for that game. They did it with the Olympics in 2012 too . Still got mine. Battery is long since dead.

 

[Rocket]

I don't think its a conspiracy against us - and to be fair we've had a few very dodgy VAR calls go our way (Sheff Utd and Norwich offside goals spring to mind).

However...some of those that have gone against us are ludicrous in the extreme.

Kane goal vs Sheff Utd
Moura is fouled and pushed over, and as he is falling the ball hits him on back of the shoulder. Ball breaks to Kane and Kane scores. Goal is given by the onfield ref, but VAR then decides it was handball by Moura. In this instance, it is far from clear what part of Moura the ball actually hit - so for a VAR to be 100% certain it hit his arm is ridiculous. To add insult to injury, the ref should then have given a freekick to Spurs, as no advantage was received - but instead Sheff Utd got a freekick for handball. Fuck right off.

Kane pushed vs Bournemouth
About as blatant a push and a penalty as you are ever likely to see. The onfield ref missed it, and VAR decided it was not a clear and obvious error. WTF?????

Son red card vs Everton
A foul by Sonny with a worse outcome than would normally happen in that the knock on effect was the Everton player got his legs caught and broke his leg/ankle. Just a foul - nothing more nothing less, but then VAR tells the ref to red card Sonny and we are down to 10 men and it costs us a victory.

Penalties vs Southampton and Newcastle.
Not penalties - simple as.

Offside goals
The issue with some of these marginal offside goals is that VAR is trying to apply a 3D view of the offside line to a 2D picture at a broadcast camera angle. It simply does not work and the margin for human error on this is huge. The worst instance of this was the disallowed Firmino goal against Villa early last season, which VAR got spectacularly wrong. Sonny being offside in the build up to the disallowed Aurier goal against Leicester was another example - but not as obvious. In my opinion the only way to fix this is to have mobile overhead and sideline cameras sync'd and tracking play all the time, as this would remove virtually all of the camera angle issue. However that is not practical.

Good post, can't argue with any of that.

 

[AG67]

Two ridiculous penalties awarded against Spurs in consecutive League games in the very late stages.
The Southampton one was irrelevant really but the Newcastle one was the polar opposite and cost two points.
Hopefully it won’t become a pattern.

 

[Archie]

My biggest gripe is how VAR is applied. The refs and dickheads at stockley park are able to pick and choose which incidents they review leaving the decisions open to interpretation or indeed corruption. We've had players manhandled and rugby tackled in the box (dele v scum) nothing given.

These hand ball decisions are another thing this bullshit t shirt rule which means they can now look at the shirt colour (RED) and say oh but it just grazed the shirt and therefore not a penalty. See Arse v spammers.

 

[Blanchflower]

I believed football would be a more fair game with VAR. How naive I was... It's worse than ever now and it has almost killed the sport entirely.

They sold it as creating less bias and subjectivity........it's just created different bias and subjectivity

 

[spursmalc]

I am starting to think we should play the kids against MU and not tonight because with the current way the ref's are interpreting the laws we will get nothing Sunday. MU were lucky against us with the penalty in June and nearly got another in injury time. The number of Pens MU get, is it not will they get a penalty but how many. All right I am not being serious but does anyone really think we will get anything out of that match after the midweek matches and no doubt more injuries.

 

[Zest]

I think we live in the Matrix.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

I think we live in the Matrix.

No surprise.

 

[Spanish Spur]

It's only a matter of time before players start deliberately aiming the ball at defenders' arms. Whoever said pandora's box is spot on.

 

[BernardMatthews]

Has this thread been nicked from a Liverpool forum.

Help if we scored more fucking goals.

End of.

 

[Notabadsquad]

I think Jose was right about the lack of respect against us due to having less trophies over the years than our Top 6 rivals historically

Cant help but think some of those decisions against us would have been given for Liverpool and Utd for example

Yep and the worst is this.

If having a manager like Mourinho and his reputation cannot change the dial you have to think next to nothing will.

Kane, who in the last 2 league games, goals aside has been a striker at the top of his game must sit and ponder.

In my mind we are inching closer maybe but that absolutely depends on a striker and less so a central defender arriving in the next few days.

So many times in the last decade or so we fall short but that bit is as much us as the unaligned stars of misfortune.

 

[Billy Bob mate]

There's no conspiracy against us or any team, it's simply that VAR (in its current form) is crap.

I was moderately for technology in football, but that was before seeing its real-life implementation. I agree with the posters that VAR is hurting football because the simplicity makes it watchable. It's also a sport with much more of a natural ebb and flow than, say, cricket, so it's harder to bed in technology anyway.

Lots of problems here: a few in short: i. when you start to get out the lines on the computer that means there's millimetres in it, so it's not a 'clear and obvious' error; ii. offside goals are still being scored; iii. problems surrounding the policing of red card level fouls. Overall, it's compounded human error.

I'm all for scrapping VAR unless it can be brought back in such a way that is perfect, but I doubt that will happen. The only tech I am in favour of is goal line, as there can be literally no argument over whether the ball has crossed the line or not.

All replays should be in real time too. Everything looks worse in super slo-mo and freeze frame

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

I don't think its a conspiracy against us - and to be fair we've had a few very dodgy VAR calls go our way (Sheff Utd and Norwich offside goals spring to mind).

However...some of those that have gone against us are ludicrous in the extreme.

Kane goal vs Sheff Utd
Moura is fouled and pushed over, and as he is falling the ball hits him on back of the shoulder. Ball breaks to Kane and Kane scores. Goal is given by the onfield ref, but VAR then decides it was handball by Moura. In this instance, it is far from clear what part of Moura the ball actually hit - so for a VAR to be 100% certain it hit his arm is ridiculous. To add insult to injury, the ref should then have given a freekick to Spurs, as no advantage was received - but instead Sheff Utd got a freekick for handball. Fuck right off.

Kane pushed vs Bournemouth
About as blatant a push and a penalty as you are ever likely to see. The onfield ref missed it, and VAR decided it was not a clear and obvious error. WTF?????

Son red card vs Everton
A foul by Sonny with a worse outcome than would normally happen in that the knock on effect was the Everton player got his legs caught and broke his leg/ankle. Just a foul - nothing more nothing less, but then VAR tells the ref to red card Sonny and we are down to 10 men and it costs us a victory.

Penalties vs Southampton and Newcastle.
Not penalties - simple as.

Offside goals
The issue with some of these marginal offside goals is that VAR is trying to apply a 3D view of the offside line to a 2D picture at a broadcast camera angle. It simply does not work and the margin for human error on this is huge. The worst instance of this was the disallowed Firmino goal against Villa early last season, which VAR got spectacularly wrong. Sonny being offside in the build up to the disallowed Aurier goal against Leicester was another example - but not as obvious. In my opinion the only way to fix this is to have mobile overhead and sideline cameras sync'd and tracking play all the time, as this would remove virtually all of the camera angle issue. However that is not practical.

Nail on head.

 

[Calgary Spur]

This is what will happen...

PGMOL, the premier league and the FA will discuss it.
They will decide it needs changing, and issue some guidance. The following round of games, Van Dijk will handle a goalbound shot. The ref will use his new discretion and decide its no penalty, and as such, no card.
Probably be against us.

At this point, they need to keep up this charade of fairness until at least the halfway point. You’re right; if they changed their ways today then we basically get shafted (along with Palace) this year and the others are completely off the hook.

I’m completely against how they’re applying this, but maybe, just maybe, we’ll be the beneficiaries and things will even out. I’m trying my best to remain positive.

 

[ChiversRegal]

What the needed to do was go one again and then realise the stupid cock of a referee gave a free kick he should never have given.

This 100%. Scandalous decision, he didn't see the incident but turned round to see two players on the floor and made a judgement call to give the foul for the player who last had the ball.
Should be called to account for that as it led to such a controversial ending but he won't be as their too busy protecting their own.

 

[FightingIllini]

I've banged on about this before but you're right that it's particularly sickening when the lines come out and they're trying to assess millimetres of difference.

I won't say exactly what but I have a science background and as far as experimental measurements go (you could treat VAR offside decisions like that TBH) it would be bad science. If you wrote a report and presented those offside calls as absolute 'fact', you would look ridiculous and someone would rightfully be asking about every single contribution of measurement error.

Simply put:
- what's the resolution of the image used?
- what's your frame rate?
- given this frame rate, when did the ball leave the last passer's foot?

I can't put it any other way than it's men in a box using noticeably imperfect tools to produce a perfect decision. There should totally be an option for 'inconclusive' that gives the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. It's what the offside rule used to aim to do by eye and is within the spirit of the game. We all know the kind of egregious offsides that have been missed before VAR and those would be picked up conclusively without a doubt.

1000 times this.

The whole thing makes a mockery of the notion of "clear and obvious"

And the thing I always want to drive home about this, because this is the real axis of disagreement, this INHERENTLY CANNOT get better with time or improve with further development.

The kicking of a football is NOT a freeze-frameable instant of time (a concept which is itself theoretically shaky). And even if it were to be defined at that level (the foot making contact with the ball or the ball breaking contact with the foot) TV cameras don't capture the footage at that level of precision!

The whole thing is an illusion. It's precision theater.

 

[TonySoprano]

I don't think there is a conspiracy against us. But i do think when you're at the top of the football tree your profile can influence officials into giving you the benefit of the doubt. Liverpool get it now. Utd got it for years. How long did they go without conceding a penalty at OT when Fergie was around? Remember all those Fergie time goals?

If Liverpool had got that penalty decision against them in the last minute you can bet the media would have it front and centre of their agenda for the next week. What were we last match on MOTD? If that's Liverpool\City it's the headline game and all the analysis would we be on the injustice. That pressure and scrutiny can subtly affect officials in their following games.

 

[Lickher]

It’s not about whether it Is with us or against us simple fact is the system is not working to the best of the game of football in its current iteration - remember we maybe wouldn’t have made it to the champions league final if it weren’t for the Sterling offside call.