January 2021 Transfer Thread

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Fbref pay to use Statsbomb data but allow you to apply it to individual player comparisons, where statsbomb don’t offer that service for free.

I’ve gone to great effort to explain and support my opinion with anecdotal, pictorial, video and data metrics. Proper, in-depth analytics, not his opta score card.

You on the other hand have backed your opinion up with fuck all of substance, just a lot of hot air and rudimentary schoolboy stats. Oh and “The Manager picks him”. Managers don’t get everything right, that’s why they get the sack, continually, in Mourinho’s case from his last two jobs, partly because of his selections (cough Fellani). If we’re not going to question manager’s selections, let’s just close the fucking forum. At least I back my questioning up with something other than a Trumpian opta score or try to just shut down other opinions with little more than your usual Trumpian blow hard “fake news” rant.
Your opinion is "Sissoko is shit" doesn't matter how he plays at club or international level, you manage to insert that opinion into every thread (including this one) it's become tedious in the extreme .... by all means repeat it endlessly in the Sissoko thread if you must, but why every single thread on the forum?

In case you missed it this is the January 2021 Transfer thread not the "Blakey shits on Sissoko again" thread ... try keeping your Sissoko hate in one place, the rest of the forum would probably appreciate that a lot.

As for Keita who would you drop PEH? LoCelso? Ndombele? .... or would you want a 45m Liverpool reject sitting on the bench? Why on earth would we want that? Keita was touted as a box to box goal scoring midfield player - 67 appearances for Liverpool in two and a half seasons has produced 7 goals and only 4 assists that's a pretty terrible return. So what do you see which Klopp, who is obviously just an idiot professional football manager, clearly doesn't?
 
Rather condescending there Blakey....

I've yet to see that data reflected in an EPL performance by him. That's pretty much the long and the short of my opinion of the guy.....

I still find your "If he stays" comment somewhat pertinent... I mean why would they let the player you are depicting go anywhere (or similarly, why would you suggest they might if it's all rosey)?

Condescending? Why?

You might not have seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I have seen him have good games for Liverpool.


You are (potentially) oversimplifying a situation that is (potentially) more complicated. The player himself may choose not to sign a new contract and force the clubs hand if he feels he isn't going to become a fixture in the first team - Klopp wouldn't necessarily choose to sell him even if he thinks he's not automatic first choice because it wouldn't be easy to find a "back up" who's as good.

Again, he's playing for one of the best three teams in Europe over the last couple of years, letting him go, or him choosing to go is a long way from meaning he's shit. That's how we got Reguilon for example. how we've now ended up with Bale again, how we got VDV, many a very player has come out of not quite making it at a top side and had great careers.

Did Liverpool over pay for the player. Not in my opinion based on his performances (and I watched him quite a few times - and so did most of Europe's clubs and many would have signed him - which is why Liverpool who have been the best recruiting team in Europe the last few years jumped the gun and paid in advance to beat the rush), performances backed up by the metrics.

Has it worked out? not ideally, no, but as I'ver tried to explain and Klopp has said similar - sometimes there are external reasons beyond the player that can influence that, injuries, tactical structure, team dynamics, other personnel etc.

I stand by my opinion that he's a really good footballer with a good all round midfield skill set. I'd have him here in shot, and I think he'd walk into at least 15-17 teams in the PL. Other opinions are available.
 
Fbref pay to use Statsbomb data but allow you to apply it to individual player comparisons, where statsbomb don’t offer that service for free.

I’ve gone to great effort to explain and support my opinion with anecdotal, pictorial, video and data metrics. Proper, in-depth analytics, not his opta score card.

You on the other hand have backed your opinion up with fuck all of substance, just a lot of hot air and rudimentary schoolboy stats. Oh and “The Manager picks him”. Managers don’t get everything right, that’s why they get the sack, continually, in Mourinho’s case from his last two jobs, partly because of his selections (cough Fellani). If we’re not going to question manager’s selections, let’s just close the fucking forum. At least I back my questioning up with something other than a Trumpian opta score or try to just shut down other opinions with little more than your usual Trumpian blow hard “fake news” rant.
‘The manager picks him’ is my most despised counter argument and pretty much the most useless on an opinions based forum
 
Condescending? Why?

"anyone who's actually watched him knows he's got a really good all round skill set"

Intentionally or otherwise that statement implies that either I'm pretending to have watching him or that I don't know shit.

No offense taken, but still.....

You might not have seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I have seen him have good games for Liverpool.

I've not pretended otherwise(*), but like I say he's about 6th in line for a start at CM when everyone is fit.... That tells it's own story.

(*But I'll remind you of that comment when it comes to other players including a certain maligned Frenchman.)

You are (potentially) oversimplifying a situation that is (potentially) more complicated. The player himself may choose not to sign a new contract and force the clubs hand if he feels he isn't going to become a fixture in the first team -

Pray tell, why might he get that impression?

Could it be that the signing of Thiago (despite the Klopp interview you quoted) has since pushed him even further down the pecking order?

Klopp wouldn't necessarily choose to sell him even if he thinks he's not automatic first choice because it wouldn't be easy to find a "back up" who's as good.

For 48m? ....That's a rather bold assertion.

What's more, that's a costly manner of depth that I don't think even City & PSG have a policy of indulging in.

Again, he's playing for one of the best three teams in Europe over the last couple of years, letting him go, or him choosing to go is a long way from meaning he's shit. That's how we got Reguilon for example. how we've now ended up with Bale again, how we got VDV, many a very player has come out of not quite making it at a top side and had great careers.

Did Liverpool over pay for the player. Not in my opinion based on his performances (and I watched him quite a few times - and so did most of Europe's clubs and many would have signed him - which is why Liverpool who have been the best recruiting team in Europe the last few years jumped the gun and paid in advance to beat the rush), performances backed up by the metrics.

You may recall my first post; it expressed no doubt over the fact he may have made a good showing for himself in the BL.

Has it worked out? not ideally, no, but as I'ver tried to explain and Klopp has said similar - sometimes there are external reasons beyond the player that can influence that, injuries, tactical structure, team dynamics, other personnel etc.

Aside from injuries, that should all be somewhat have been pre-considered and become part of the 'good or bad signing' equation, no?

I stand by my opinion that he's a really good footballer with a good all round midfield skill set. I'd have him here in shot, and I think he'd walk into at least 15-17 teams in the PL. Other opinions are available.

Forgetting Sissoko; assuming you had the autonomy to pick who you wanted; who would you drop from PEH/TN/GLC if we had him then?

(If you'd only have him here for depth, again; that's not much of an endorsement.)
 
‘The manager picks him’ is my most despised counter argument and pretty much the most useless on an opinions based forum

When a succession of top level managers picks a player though it does project a degree of credibility to the player's ability to contribute.... Certainly above random internet bloke claiming "nah, X is shit".
 
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Your opinion is "Sissoko is shit" doesn't matter how he plays at club or international level, you manage to insert that opinion into every thread (including this one) it's become tedious in the extreme .... by all means repeat it endlessly in the Sissoko thread if you must, but why every single thread on the forum?

In case you missed it this is the January 2021 Transfer thread not the "Blakey shits on Sissoko again" thread ... try keeping your Sissoko hate in one place, the rest of the forum would probably appreciate that a lot.

As for Keita who would you drop PEH? LoCelso? Ndombele? .... or would you want a 45m Liverpool reject sitting on the bench? Why on earth would we want that? Keita was touted as a box to box goal scoring midfield player - 67 appearances for Liverpool in two and a half seasons has produced 7 goals and only 4 assists that's a pretty terrible return. So what do you see which Klopp, who is obviously just an idiot professional football manager, clearly doesn't?

In transfer threads we focus on where the team is weakest with respect to who/what type of player we should buy. Sissoko is a valid topic of any conversation involving that evolution. In terms of the team, his (Sissoko) role is probably the very weakest and easiest to upgrade. So forgive me if I say, fuck off telling me who I can and can't talk about, I'll talk about Sissoko all I like in the transfer thread.

Once again, you make a complete Donald of yourself when you actually attempt to discuss football or football stats and /or Sissoko's shitness. You claim Keita is shit because in 67 appearances he's scored 7 and assisted 4, but he's actually only made 47 PL appearances and only 29 starts. In 83 starts and 122 total for us Sissoko (also playing mostly as a box to box midfielder and even a fair few games as an AM) has managed 2 goals and 7 assists. So if Keita's is a terrible return, what's Sissoko's?

I happen to rate Klopp extremely highly, all I've done is try to rationalise why Keita might not have been a constant starter at one of Europe's top 3 best performing clubs, and backed that up, including with Klopp's own explanation, and why that doesn't automatically make Keita shit (as you seem to suggest).

In a midfield 2, that Mourinho plays every week come hell or high water, I'd have Keita ahead of Sissoko (who's stating there lately), Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele, maybe even PEH, but at least with PEH because as much as I like in varying degrees three of those players, none of them are better suited to playing the multi faceted double role as I think Keita would be. In my ideal CM3 system it would get complicated, but Keita could play in any of the remits in a CM3 IMO meaning he'd get loads of starts and all 4 (PEH, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Keita) would just constantly rotate with rest/competitions/injuries in my hypothetical scenario. And in that scenario he'd be a fucking huge upgrade on Sissoko and a pretty big one on Winks.
 
‘The manager picks him’ is my most despised counter argument and pretty much the most useless on an opinions based forum
It's when "the manager doesn't pick him" that probably tells you far more, after all he sees the player training every day - praising Klopp and Liverpool for great transfer strategy then failing to recognise that it's the same manager who isn't picking a certain player - where's the logic?

"I've seen him play a decent 45 minutes three times in two years" compare to "I've watched him in training every day for two years" ... you tell me who's likely to be the better judge?

Same goes for Dele - a few good, even great appearances over two years - that's not really worth all that much if you can't contribute to the team every time it's required.
 
"anyone who's actually watched him knows he's got a really good all round skill set"

Intentionally or otherwise that statement implies that either I'm pretending to have watching him or that I don't know shit.

That was more aimed at colonel blow hard who clearly hadn't seen him judging by the nonsense he was spouting than you. I was being double pivoted at the time.

I've not pretended otherwise(*), but like I say he's about 6th in line for a start at CM when everyone is fit.... That tells it's own story.

(*But I'll remind you of that comment when it comes to other players including a certain maligned Frenchman.)

He's started every one of their first 4 games, I think he then tased positive for COVID and missed the next 3/4? No?

Pray tell, why might he get that impression?

Could it be that the signing of Thiago (despite the Klopp interview you quoted) has since pushed him even further down the pecking order?

Hardly the biggest knock to be deemed behind Thiago in the pecking order is it?
Forgetting Sissoko; assuming you had the autonomy to pick who you wanted; who would you drop from PEH/TN/GLC if we had him then?

(If you'd only have him here for depth, again; that's not much of an endorsement.)

See my answer above.
 
When a succession of top level managers picks a player though it does project a degree of credibility to the players ability contribute though.... Certainly above random internet bloke claiming "nah, X is shit".

But that gets clouded when those managers constantly lose their jobs and random bloke on the internet can at least back up his "nah x is shit" with some well thought out and evidenced backed rationale.
 
When a succession of top level managers picks a player though it does project a degree of credibility to the players ability contribute though.... Certainly above random internet bloke claiming "nah, X is shit".
It’s when it’s used to conclusively win any debate it becomes most frustrating

not saying it doesn’t add some weight to an argument and sure a succession of managers more so but as a definitive answer that supposedly ends all debate I can’t stand it

it happens a lot and it’s more than fair to say managers don’t get it right as often as theyd like


Mason mount is a great player, Gary Southgate thinks so and he’s the England manager
 
That was more aimed at colonel blow hard who clearly hadn't seen him judging by the nonsense he was spouting than you. I was being double pivoted at the time.

:carrollwtf:

Hardly the biggest knock to be deemed behind Thiago in the pecking order is it?

Behind Fabhino, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Thiago & Milner is more the point I've been putting to you all along....

(Yes he got some starts at the beginning of the season, but early doors being what it is those underlined weren't available/fit to start. He was also subbed early-ish in each.)

Like I initially said, get everybody fit and he's fighting to make the bench.


See my answer above.

(Like I said, your preferred line-up, so I assume that to be a CM3.....)

So you don't rank him high enough to outright supplant anyone in (y)our best XI then?

Not sure that equates to walking into most other midfields as previously claimed.



I fear this is running out of steam, so I'll leave you to continue tearing it up with Bangcock if you've any juice left.
 
:carrollwtf:



Behind Fabhino, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Thiago & Milner is more the point I've been putting to you all along....

(Yes he got some starts at the beginning of the season, but early doors being what it is those underlined weren't available/fit to start. He was also subbed early-ish in each.)

Like I initially said, get everybody fit and he's fighting to make the bench.



(Like I said, your preferred line-up, so I assume that to be a CM3.....)

So you don't rank him high enough to outright supplant anyone in (y)our best XI then?

Not sure that equates to walking into most other midfields as previously claimed.



I fear this is running out of steam, so I'll leave you to continue tearing it up with Bangcock if you've any juice left.
I do not like the sound of being double pivoted .... I don’t know what it is but Blakey has my sympathies on this one
 
In transfer threads we focus on where the team is weakest with respect to who/what type of player we should buy. Sissoko is a valid topic of any conversation involving that evolution. In terms of the team, his (Sissoko) role is probably the very weakest and easiest to upgrade. So forgive me if I say, fuck off telling me who I can and can't talk about, I'll talk about Sissoko all I like in the transfer thread.

Once again, you make a complete Donald of yourself when you actually attempt to discuss football or football stats and /or Sissoko's shitness. You claim Keita is shit because in 67 appearances he's scored 7 and assisted 4, but he's actually only made 47 PL appearances and only 29 starts. In 83 starts and 122 total for us Sissoko (also playing mostly as a box to box midfielder and even a fair few games as an AM) has managed 2 goals and 7 assists. So if Keita's is a terrible return, what's Sissoko's?

I happen to rate Klopp extremely highly, all I've done is try to rationalise why Keita might not have been a constant starter at one of Europe's top 3 best performing clubs, and backed that up, including with Klopp's own explanation, and why that doesn't automatically make Keita shit (as you seem to suggest).

In a midfield 2, that Mourinho plays every week come hell or high water, I'd have Keita ahead of Sissoko (who's stating there lately), Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele, maybe even PEH, but at least with PEH because as much as I like in varying degrees three of those players, none of them are better suited to playing the multi faceted double role as I think Keita would be. In my ideal CM3 system it would get complicated, but Keita could play in any of the remits in a CM3 IMO meaning he'd get loads of starts and all 4 (PEH, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Keita) would just constantly rotate with rest/competitions/injuries in my hypothetical scenario. And in that scenario he'd be a fucking huge upgrade on Sissoko and a pretty big one on Winks.
Pure drivel designed solely to support your anti Sissoko rambling, this is not about Sissoko.

A transfer committee, and indeed a transfer forum thread, focuses on what would improve our team. There is zero evidence at all that Keita would do that ....

Even a bias fool like you must understand that Sissoko is not part of our future midfield three, he's 31 and well on his way out ... so let's just put away the Sissoko bile and look forward.

We have a likely midfield three of PEH, LoCelso and Ndombele the obvious concern is the lack of fitness and the ability of LoCelso and Ndombele to cover behind attacking fullbacks, a job Sissoko currently does better .... however that will / should change as they both get fitter.

But this is the transfer thread so let's look forward not backwards - if we were to buy Kieta where would he play? Well he's a pretty average defender so no way could he replace PEH, likewise IMO he's a major step down on LoCelso and Ndombele when it comes to pure ability, and let's not forget he's a short-arse who is useless in the air.

So looking at next season he would at best be a bench player who when called upon very rarely scores or creates a goal ... so in reality no better or more effective than Dele, Lamela, Lucas.

Why would we want that? You talk about a 'multi-faceted' role but don't explain what the hell that is, he's another Ozil, Ramsey, Dele, Pogba type player loads of tippy-tappy but neither a great defender nor a great goal scorer.

There is a reason Klopp doesn't fancy him, so why should we?

He's not an upgrade so we wouldn't start him - if we were to buy a midfield player we either need a dedicated defensive midfield player to play alongside PEH when we need to be more defensive, or we need an attacking midfield player who will score 10/15 goals a season ... Keita is neither.

We do not need a box-to-box player who is neither a defender, a creator or a goal scoring player ... that role is currently redundant, it's why Kieta is a bench-warmer at Liverpool, and why he would add nothing to our starting line up.

You seem to have this ridiculous stance where players are either world-class or useless - Kieta is neither, he's a long way from world class and he's a lot better than useless, maybe a mid-table team can find a space but not a team with greater ambitions. He's simply not good enough.

FYI - Why do you keep calling Liverpool one of Europe's top 3? UEFA ranks them 10th, they like us were knocked out of the CL in the last sixteen last year, so what do you know that they don't?
 
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But that gets clouded when those managers constantly lose their jobs and random bloke on the internet can at least back up his "nah x is shit" with some well thought out and evidenced backed rationale.

Naughty Blakey....

Let's take your boy Sissoko for example (though it could just as easily be eg Winks)....

Jose, Poch, Deschamps.... How many of those men "constantly lose their jobs"(*) exclusively due to playing Moussa?

(*What's wrong with that statement....?)

Of course, the answer is none.

It’s when it’s used to conclusively win any debate it becomes most frustrating

not saying it doesn’t add some weight to an argument and sure a succession of managers more so but as a definitive answer that supposedly ends all debate I can’t stand it

it happens a lot and it’s more than fair to say managers don’t get it right as often as theyd like


Mason mount is a great player, Gary Southgate thinks so and he’s the England manager

.....But that is just one manager, which wasn't the point I made.

I'm not saying this to rile him, but (see above)... Who is the odd one out?

Jose, Poch, Deschamps, Blakey.
 
Naughty Blakey....

Let's take your boy Sissoko for example (though it could just as easily be eg Winks)....

Jose, Poch, Deschamps.... How many of those men "constantly lose their jobs"(*) exclusively due to playing Moussa?

(*What's wrong with that statement....?)

Of course, the answer is none.



.....But that is just one manager, which wasn't the point I made.

I'm not saying this to rile him, but (see above)... Who is the odd one out?

Jose, Poch, Deschamps, Blakey.
Maybe I wasn’t so obvious but I agreed your point had merit and acknowledged that .... The example I used was to reiterate my original point, apologies for the confusion

however ; mason mount is a great player , Gary Southgate and frank lampard think so 😉
 
Behind Fabhino, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Thiago & Milner is more the point I've been putting to you all along....

(Yes he got some starts at the beginning of the season, but early doors being what it is those underlined weren't available/fit to start. He was also subbed early-ish in each.)

Like I initially said, get everybody fit and he's fighting to make the bench.

Lets see, so far this season when fit he's started, apart from his first game back from injury/COVID when he was on the bench.

As I keep saying, regardless of how things pan out at Liverpool, I still like him a lot.
(Like I said, your preferred line-up, so I assume that to be a CM3.....)

So you don't rank him high enough to outright supplant anyone in (y)our best XI then?

Not sure that equates to walking into most other midfields as previously claimed.

For a start I do rate him as good enough to potentially nail a place in my ideal midfield, but more to the point, I wouldn't just want three midfielders fighting for three places. We've got 5 fighting for two now.

And there are very few "most other" midfields that even have the likes of Lo Celso and Ndombele, so yes, I do think he'd walk into most of them.

so I'll leave you to continue tearing it up with Bangcock if you've any juice left.

FFS don't leave me...
 
Pure drivel designed solely to support your anti Sissoko rambling, this is not about Sissoko.

A transfer committee, and indeed a transfer forum thread, focuses on what would improve our team. There is zero evidence at all that Keita would do that ....

Even a bias fool like you must understand that Sissoko is not part of our future midfield three, he's 31 and well on his way out ... so let's just put away the Sissoko bile and look forward.

We have a likely midfield three of PEH, LoCelso and Ndombele the obvious concern is the lack of fitness and the ability of LoCelso and Ndombele to cover behind attacking fullbacks, a job Sissoko currently does better .... however that will / should change as they both get fitter.

But this is the transfer thread so let's look forward not backwards - if we were to buy Kieta where would he play? Well he's a pretty average defender so no way could he replace PEH, likewise IMO he's a major step down on LoCelso and Ndombele when it comes to pure ability, and let's not forget he's a short-arse who is useless in the air.

So looking at next season he would at best be a bench player who when called upon very rarely scores or creates a goal ... so in reality no better or more effective than Dele, Lamela, Lucas.

Why would we want that? You talk about a 'multi-faceted' role but don't explain what the hell that is, he's another Ozil, Ramsey, Dele, Pogba type player loads of tippy-tappy but neither a great defender nor a great goal scorer.

There is a reason Klopp doesn't fancy him, so why should we?

He's not an upgrade so we wouldn't start him - if we were to buy a midfield player we either need a dedicated defensive midfield player to play alongside PEH when we need to be more defensive, or we need an attacking midfield player who will score 10/15 goals a season ... Keita is neither.

We do not need a box-to-box player who is neither a defender, a creator or a goal scoring player ... that role is currently redundant, it's why Kieta is a bench-warmer at Liverpool, and why he would add nothing to our starting line up.

You seem to have this ridiculous stance where players are either world-class or useless - Kieta is neither, he's a long way from world class and he's a lot better than useless, maybe a mid-table team can find a space but not a team with greater ambitions. He's simply not good enough.

FYI - Why do you keep calling Liverpool one of Europe's top 3? UEFA ranks them 10th, they like us were knocked out of the CL in the last sixteen last year, so what do you know that they don't?

I don't think you have ever watched a 90 minute performance of Keita have you? Be honest. If you had, you'd know he's absolutely fuck all like Ozil, Ramsey, Dele and is not a "tippy tappy" player. Even if you hadn't seen him at RBS and RBL, he's actually played as a DM a couple times for Liverpool, it's definitely not his best remit, but he's great in a CM2 or CM3/8 because as well as being able to dribble and pass incisively he's a tenacious player who's pressing metrics blow anyone in our midfields out of the water and his tackling/interceptions are better the likes of Winks, Sissoko and are only matched by PEH.

The last sentence just shows your ignorance. The UEFA club 5 yr coefficient ranking place Liverpool behind the likes of Sevilla, manU, Juve, AM, ManC, PSG, Barca. They also have Woolwich as 11th above us in 12th. This is a 5 year coefficient that is based solely on results in European competitions. Not a balanced perspective on who has actually been the best/strongest teams in Europe currently (or last 2/3 years) or do you believe Sevilla and ManU are better teams than Liverpool?

And guess what team are currently top of this seasons UEFA coefficient rankings. Liverpool.
 
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