Jewish chronicle article on Spurs and the Y-Word

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Jimnyg said:
Agree with all the comments here, and as has surely been said a million times in threads before my time on here, it is just the same as the N word, which when thrown in the direction of a black person in hostile context by someone of a different race it is derogatory, rascist and meant to belittle and demean the individual it is aimed at. So black people then adopted it as their word and instantly that diminished the power of the word to the rascist filth, however it does not make it ok for it to continued to be used in the original, aggressive and disgusting way. I guess the Jewish council has to be seen to make comment on our use of the term or risk the backlash of 'why's it ok for them' obviously it would be better if they came out and said what we've all said here about there being two very different connotations out there, the way we use it as a sense of identity, unity and a belonging and the vicious hate filled way it is used against us.
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Has it reduced the power of the N word though? I'm sceptical of this 'reclaiming words' stuff. Do you think racists sit around lamenting the fact that Dr Dre uses the N word, their word, and try to come up with another word? I very much doubt it.
I'm not Jewish, Tottenham is not a particularly Jewish community, the origin of THFC has nothing to do with Judaism. It's all very bizarre. But I must admit when at the ground I have found myself chanting Yid army, but ive done that since I was a child before I even understood what the term meant; it's just habit now and when I use it it totally refers to the club and has nothing to do with me expressing solidarity with a minority community, not that I don't wish to express that solidarity, just that's not what I'm doing with the use of the word.
All very bizarre and I'd prefer us not to use it, but it is what it is and I can't see it changing
 
1882 said:
I still don't get what's unlovely about it... European Jews have been speaking Yiddish for nigh on 100 years... and no one ever said it was unlovely then...
I genuinely think the point is being missed every time this subject rears its' head....

When will people realise that it's not the word... it's never been the word...
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE COCK-A-DOODY CONTEXT!

And I still maintain (and always will) that; YOU FUCKING DIRTY JEW is wayyyyy more offensive than The thing I love most is being a YID!
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The only people who I think can truly determine this are the Jewish. I like this article because it's written from the point of view of a Jewish Spurs fan. I don't think there is a strong enough and especially a united Jewish voice coming out from the fanbase who are in favour or not (I know both). The thing that is united is the fanbase but seeing as the fanbase is overwhelmingly non-Jewish the opposing voices will always exist, either genuine racists and anti-semites hiding behind this convenience or those uneducated and nieve.

One of the most important things anyone can do in life is to walk in someone else's shoes. I'm not religious. I'm a white Anglo Saxon male (have distant Italian and Spanish descendants but you wouldn't know to look at me or my immediate family) but being a Spurs fan has given me a unique viewpoint on what it's like to feel racism/anti-semitism. Spurs is part of my identity which now goes hand in hand with a Jewish identity (I reiterate I'm not religious, in fact, I hate religion, all of it from Christianity to Judaism to Muslum. I don't hate those that are religious just hate religions) and I feel anger when anti-semitic chants are directed towards us/me. (My wife is black, my kids are mix-race and my grandkids are black, so I see it as no different when I see racism that comes towards them, I walk in their shoes every single day too).

Whilst I am proud to fight the good fight, both as a Spurs fan and as a Husband, Father and Grandfather I am still guided by those that are the intended target and how they actually feel. I think this is a tad harder when we are talking about religion as racism as it is not based on a physical appearance. By way of example I sat next to a lovely Jewish fella for many years, he absolutely hated Spurs fans signing "yids". What am I now meant to do? I chose not to ever sing or say that word whilst I was sat next to him, he's Jewish and I'm not, what else can I do but respect the wishes of a Jewish person, especially if he was offended by it. Equally, I've sat next to other Jews who belt it out with such conviction that it means everything to them, they feel empowered and humbled by Spurs fans/me signing it side by side, I've had long conversations with them and they don't feel marginalised and in return I felt more brotherhood singing "yid" alongside them, it gave it more relevance and made it more than just a chant, it gave it a cause.

If my memory serves me well you are Jewish(??), if that's correct it stands to reason that as a non-jew myself I'll always take your guidance and your opinion first, it helps shape mine, but on this very forum Smoked Salmon Smoked Salmon (R.I.P) was one of those completely opposed to it and if he were still alive I'm in no doubt he will be on here now sharing his views which differed to yours.

TDLR: Need more Jewish Spurs fans to take up a voice. This article should be the first of many for that very reason.
 
Tottenham Sean said:
I know a good few Spurs fans hate the name,and won't use it.
Personally i love it.
I do wonder what Daniel's views are.He can't condone it obviously,and i can't see it being an attraction to any Jewish businesses looking to invest,naming rights etc.
I am talking ones that have no loyalty to Tottenham ,from abroad etc here
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I am going to start a business called York Independent Dealer Services purely on the basis that when i make my fortune (rapidly running out of time) i can be the Spurs shirt sponsor. Could they stop me?

On that note, i have three acquaintances that LEGALLY changed their middle names to Yido/Yiddo (£9.99). No one in whatever government department that deals with it questioned them/raised any objection in the slightest.
 
It is not an anti-Semitic slur that I have ever heard in the US, so I have a hard time knowing how bad the word in the non-Spurs context is. I'm Jewish and it clearly never bothered me in the slightest. In fact, I'm sure the Jewish association of the club is something that probably drew me to it in the first place. But, I do understand the concerns, and while I've gone back and forth through the years, I choose not to use the term any longer. With that said, I find it outrageous that people could be charged criminally for it---especially in this context.
 
I'm Jewish, I got Jewish mates from London who don't mind at all, I know the former chief rabbi of the UK (who now sits in the lords) and I know he doesn't care (though he supports utd.).

They do not speak for all of us.

They want to see antisemitism in the UK? why don't speak to LibDem activists for 5 minutes, or Osborne and his nutters.
 
Tottenham Sean said:
I know a good few Spurs fans hate the name,and won't use it.
Personally i love it.
I do wonder what Daniel's views are.He can't condone it obviously,and i can't see it being an attraction to any Jewish businesses looking to invest,naming rights etc.
I am talking ones that have no loyalty to Tottenham ,from abroad etc here
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I'd bet good money he loves it. For a start he'd have known before ENIC invested. But also, I expect we'd have been thrown under the bus when our friends at the policy, the black lawyers etc launched their crusade if he personally found it distasteful. You'd have seen us partnering with Chelsea for videos on how ALL uses of the Yid word were awful, you'd have seen people kicked out over it regularly to set an example, we'd probably have been given cheesy song 'suggestions' to the same tune so that a minority would sign that and distort ("The thing I love most is Tottenham Hotspur!!"). The club took the minimum action it could given the legal and business climate, has never made any real effort to stop it, and went as far as publishing a poll that they knew would show the vast, vast majority of our Jewish fans did not find it offensive.
 
Just got my one. Very strange survey - for a start the email with the link to it was fairly badly written, lacking in context and the usual padding/introductions. Then the survey itself was equally badly written - questions not explained properly, one question split onto a new page when it could have been on the previous one, etc. The structure of it (as LLB Part Deux LLB Part Deux says) seems to be to present a series of comments from opinion pieces that all frown on the fanbase's continued use of the Y-word, seemingly with the aim of making fans think twice about how they use the Y-word. Not exactly an objective consultation to gather sentiment - the club should have learnt from the excellent THST survey.
 
CSWY said:
Filled it in. The Y-word is a badge worn with respect, integrity and pride as a two fingered counter to the racism and bigotry from clubs like Chavs and Spam. Fuck the haters.
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Absolutely true, the thing is we never started it. It was started by those two excuses of clubs, back in the sixties. Now we use Yid, it's being villified. Should have been dealt with back then, instead of blaming us for using it.

YID ARMY.
 
This is not an easy subject, I think you have to take away the perspective from other fans, so whatever approach Spurs take needs to be independent of noises from outside. The likes of David Baddiel and Matt Lucas have caused the argument further damage as, while they are Jewish, they both face justifiable arguments of deflection because the antisemitism is coming from their own team's fans and their narrative, for that reason, appears misguided.

The word 'Yid' is offensive because you would not use it outside a Spurs context. In a Spurs context it is clearly not intended to cause offence and it's origins are from a good place but it probably has ceased to be relevant to the identity of our fans or the surrounding area.

I would like to say I've never sang it and I try not to, but when we score I'm sure I have joined in the chant because it's infectious.

There is also something which I also think about, when football and the world becomes increasingly homogonised this identification sets our club apart from others and it's a genuine part of the history of Tottenham Hotspur.

On balance I think it's something that will be used less over time but on my survey I said I felt the club would be very ill advised to ban the use of it, that will just create a situation where fans rail against it and that won't help or stop it.
 
I completed it today, as I didn't want to rush it and I wanted to give the questions proper consideration. Like everyone here, wouldn't dream of using it outside of supporting our team. With that in mind, it seems wrong to use it at all. However, until other supporters stop their abuse, I probably will continue to sing it.
For me, it's all about context.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
Can't believe he doesn't see how Chelsea supporters are one of the worst at racist chanting.
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He does, it's not the racism he has an issue with it's his agenda that drives his issues.

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If it's wasn't Tottenham he wouldn't have an issue Mrs P
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
I assume that as Bagel is a derogatory term now that if the word his gets banned, the word bagel will soon follow? That's how it works right? Someone turns a normal word into a cuss, the whole world has to stop using that word. That's the setup of the politically correct right? That's the game they want to play?
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Well I'm in trouble the next time I pop into my local 'wealthy young Jewish man characterized as being spoilt and materialistic' bakery, and ask for a cream cheese and smoked salmon wealthy young Jewish man!
 
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