Lost one game

[Park Lane James]

AVB is the fucking man. I can't believe that people were getting on his back last year after a poor start. He is a visionary, and thinks of the players at our club as components of a machine. Everything is being built correctly and I think the players know exactly what is expected of themselves before every game.

I love how this club is progressing, we're being run well from top to bottom at the moment! I just hope that we can see this optimistic period end with a trophy or two in the next few seasons or so...

 

[Mick Cooper]

AVB is the fucking man. I can't believe that people were getting on his back last year after a poor start. He is a visionary, and thinks of the players at our club as components of a machine. Everything is being built correctly and I think the players know exactly what is expected of themselves before every game.

I love how this club is progressing, we're being run well from top to bottom at the moment! I just hope that we can see this optimistic period end with a trophy or two in the next few seasons or so...

I think you are being over defensive of him to be honest. People last season quite rightly voiced concerns, because the first few games were fucking pedestrian and lacklustre, and after 3 seasons of swashbuckling attack, attack, attack under Redknapps less inhibited style - it was a sea change that didn't sit well on the eye.
The less excitable amongst us realised that there was going to be a settling in period and after a while the cohesion and understanding emerged, and thankfully the results still kept coming, despite a reliance on being Bale'd out on more than one occasion.
AVB has exceeded my expectations, and that is obviously down to his man management and tactical acumen, which he must have an abundance of, as he has little or no personal skills experience to draw on (something DiCanio had bucket loads of, but lacked everything else) and he is a fantastic asset to the club.
I'm not sure I have seen any evidence of visionary leadership just yet, having a 100 million pound talent injection can't hurt any manager, but remember we put out a team valued far higher than the Goons, and they beat us - without us really putting their goal under any pressure, so we are definitely still a "work in progress" team.

 

[pleb]

I think you are being over defensive of him to be honest. People last season quite rightly voiced concerns, because the first few games were fucking pedestrian and lacklustre, and after 3 seasons of swashbuckling attack, attack, attack under Redknapps less inhibited style - it was a sea change that didn't sit well on the eye.
The less excitable amongst us realised that there was going to be a settling in period and after a while the cohesion and understanding emerged, and thankfully the results still kept coming, despite a reliance on being Bale'd out on more than one occasion.
AVB has exceeded my expectations, and that is obviously down to his man management and tactical acumen, which he must have an abundance of, as he has little or no personal skills experience to draw on (something DiCanio had bucket loads of, but lacked everything else) and he is a fantastic asset to the club.
I'm not sure I have seen any evidence of visionary leadership just yet, having a 100 million pound talent injection can't hurt any manager, but remember we put out a team valued far higher than the Goons, and they beat us - without us really putting their goal under any pressure, so we are definitely still a "work in progress" team.

You know he has little or no personal skills because A- You are a close friend and have dinner with him every Friday night. B- You have associated with him on a regular basis.C- You are a clinical psychologist/therapist who is making a diagnosis based on what visual evidence you have seen or D- You have not got a fucking clue and you are just looking to manufacturer faults in the man because you are a closet Harry supporter who just cannot fully come out of the darkness and bathe fully in the AVB light.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

You know he has little or no personal skills because A- You are a close friend and have dinner with him every Friday night. B- You have associated with him on a regular basis.C- You are a clinical psychologist/therapist who is making a diagnosis based on what visual evidence you have seen or D- You have not got a fucking clue and you are just looking to manufacturer faults in the man because you are a closet Harry supporter who just cannot fully come out of the darkness and bathe fully in the AVB light.

Closet Harry lover or just a pretentious troll? The latter is increasingly obvious.

 

[Mick Cooper]

You know he has little or no personal skills because A- You are a close friend and have dinner with him every Friday night. B- You have associated with him on a regular basis.C- You are a clinical psychologist/therapist who is making a diagnosis based on what visual evidence you have seen or D- You have not got a fucking clue and you are just looking to manufacturer faults in the man because you are a closet Harry supporter who just cannot fully come out of the darkness and bathe fully in the AVB light.

Oh sorry, has some first class footballing career that he has had, come to light?
I was under the impression that he had no professional skills of any note, from all that has been written and reported about him.
You obviously know something that I don't. - Just where in what I posted, was some kind of put down or condemnation of the man?
Fuck me, do you just look for any reason to criticise my posts?

 

[Mick Cooper]

Closet Harry lover or just a pretentious troll? The latter is increasingly obvious.

Pretentious troll.
Why? I made no attempt to be inflammatory, there was no attempt to denigrate anyone or anything about the team, its manager or the club.

As far as I can see the only trolling would be you, trying to badmouth me for whatever reason.
Its amusing to see you calling me pretentious by the way. Almost beyond funny.

 

[Adam Clark]

Oh sorry, has some first class footballing career that he has had, come to light?
I was under the impression that he had no professional skills of any note, from all that has been written and reported about him.
You obviously know something that I don't. - Just where in what I posted, was some kind of put down or condemnation of the man?
Fuck me, do you just look for any reason to criticise my posts?

What exactly are you referring to when you talk of personal skills? The man has been involved in football since he was 16 years old working at Porto. His career has included being part of the backroom staff of two champions league winning teams, the coach of an international team (granted it was the British Virgin Islands to be fair but it is still experience) and has also been manager of a treble winning team which, regardless of the circumstances, cannot be discredited for lack of competition etc. This is pretty remarkable for someone so young and it would be hard to argue that he has not picked up any personal/professional skills in that time.

Other than that I think pretty much what you said is a good explanation as to why all the hatred was coming out last year, the football was not as attractive as it was under Harry to begin with but it has slowly got better and now it all appears to be falling in to place with two exceptional performances in a row.

I would also point out that Woolwich did have 7 players in their starting line up that have been at the club for ages now so obviously their values would be less than Spurs who were playing 7 players who had been bought in the last year. I think if both teams starting line ups were sold in the next window the value of Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Dawson, Rose, Paulinho, Dembele, Capoue, Chadli, Townsend and Soldado would be "far higher" than Scezsney, Jenkinson, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Walcott, Cazorla and Giroud.

 

[Mick Cooper]

What exactly are you referring to when you talk of personal skills? The man has been involved in football since he was 16 years old working at Porto. His career has included being part of the backroom staff of two champions league winning teams, the coach of an international team (granted it was the British Virgin Islands to be fair but it is still experience) and has also been manager of a treble winning team which, regardless of the circumstances, cannot be discredited for lack of competition etc. This is pretty remarkable for someone so young and it would be hard to argue that he has not picked up any personal/professional skills in that time.

Other than that I think pretty much what you said is a good explanation as to why all the hatred was coming out last year, the football was not as attractive as it was under Harry to begin with but it has slowly got better and now it all appears to be falling in to place with two exceptional performances in a row.

I would also point out that Woolwich did have 7 players in their starting line up that have been at the club for ages now so obviously their values would be less than Spurs who were playing 7 players who had been bought in the last year. I think if both teams starting line ups were sold in the next window the value of Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Dawson, Rose, Paulinho, Dembele, Capoue, Chadli, Townsend and Soldado would be "far higher" than Scezsney, Jenkinson, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Walcott, Cazorla and Giroud.

There was nothing sinister or derogatory behind the comment Adam, it was just a reference to the fact that he's not an ex professional footballer of any discernible talent, ie he never played the game at a reasonable professional level.

 

[Phil1988]

I'm a big fan of AVB and I think he's already proving to be a great manager for us. Since when has a manager in recent times masterminded a record of 1 goal conceded in 5 league games? For us, that's quality. Gone are those days of Anthony Gardner! :avblol:

 

[Burko]

Oh sorry, has some first class footballing career that he has had, come to light?
I was under the impression that he had no professional skills of any note, from all that has been written and reported about him.
You obviously know something that I don't. - Just where in what I posted, was some kind of put down or condemnation of the man?
Fuck me, do you just look for any reason to criticise my posts?

I think what people mean is that he's spent the last 20 years studying football tactics, rather than playing the game.

Some may say this qualifies him to be a manager better than someone who has played for 20 years and then decides to start becoming a student of the game.

There are plenty of examples of successful managers who had a less than distinguished playing career.

 

[Mick Cooper]

I think what people mean is that he's spent the last 20 years studying football tactics, rather than playing the game.

Some may say this qualifies him to be a manager better than someone who has played for 20 years and then decides to start becoming a student of the game.

There are plenty of examples of successful managers who had a less than distinguished playing career.

That's because management and motivation are skills that not everyone possesses, see Diego Maradona for details! However - I think its fair to say that in all walks of life, people who work for a manager who has a track record in the work they are carrying out, get a much higher level of trust in their workforce from day 1, until such time as they have proved their managerial skills over a period of time.
Teaching physical skills are much easier if they can be demonstrated by the trainer, but now in football, coaching staffs are much bigger and a non playing manager will simply employ an ex pro to do the demo's for them.

 

[Lister]

It may also be a hinderance to him that he has never been in a footballers shoes, he doesnt have the experience of learning how to play, regular training, what goes through the mind of a player out of the side... Which most managers actually have, something to empathise/identify themselves with a player.

Which, I think, is all Mick is saying.

That said, IMO, its clearly not holding him back. He seems to me to have the players playing for him, more so than Harry with his fabled man management in fact, and the results are certainly coming even if the playing style is still a work in progress.

As to our competition this year, I think its a little unfair to write them off as "should have won anyway" games

Palace away, newly promoted team on day one - bearing in mind Blackpools start under Holloway the other year - had "Banana skin" written all over it.

Swansea are, IMO, a bloody good side. And while we were at home they still present a challenge. That was a solid result.

Woolwich - we werent at our best. The new nature of the team was revealed and the result disappointing. Personally I thought we were good for a draw mind you. And even then, 1-0 is an improvement on shipping 5!

We failed to beat Norwich in 3 games last season. And they have improved since. We should on paper beat them, but they are typically the sort of side we struggle to put away. We didnt this time which personally I saw as a real marker for progress.

Cardiff away. Another newly promoted side, better than Palace, invested more, better organised - having drawn with Everton and beaten City already - this wasnt an easy game. I predict many teams to come away with nothing from them. The nature of the win was the thing for me. A proper "Big club" performance and a winner in added time such was our belief. Huge, IMO.

So perhaps we havent been tested thoroughly, but IMO this hasnt been a walk in the park either. There has been a lot of potential for us to slip up and Woolwich aside we havent looked remotely like it.

 

[Colonel_K]

I think what people mean is that he's spent the last 20 years studying football tactics, rather than playing the game.

Some may say this qualifies him to be a manager better than someone who has played for 20 years and then decides to start becoming a student of the game.

There are plenty of examples of successful managers who had a less than distinguished playing career.

Two names that spring to mind, one that sounds like Arsehole Wanker and the other is Jose. Neither had distinguishing playing careers but no one would argue against their records.

Let's not forget that AVB learnt his trade from the likes of Bobby Robson and Jose Mourinho. He's been in and around football clubs all his life, learning from great coaches. Yes he may not have played the game professionally but he will certainly know about the inner workings of how to coach a side and examine formations and tactics. Perhaps it's the more intelligent and analytical minds that make better coaches. There are plenty of examples of top players making terrible coaches.

 

[Adam Clark]

That's because management and motivation are skills that not everyone possesses, see Diego Maradona for details! However - I think its fair to say that in all walks of life, people who work for a manager who has a track record in the work they are carrying out, get a much higher level of trust in their workforce from day 1, until such time as they have proved their managerial skills over a period of time.
Teaching physical skills are much easier if they can be demonstrated by the trainer, but now in football, coaching staffs are much bigger and a non playing manager will simply employ an ex pro to do the demo's for them.

I see where you are coming from with regards to not having a playing career, it is an interesting discussion point as to what makes a good manager. do you want someone who's career is "purpose-built" as a manager who knows all about the technicalities and tactics or football, or one who is an experienced professional who may not have as extensive understanding of the game, but can relate to the players in terms of what they may be feeling and how to manage their mental state.

I reckon, like most things, the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle of these two extremes however, I do think a more important factor for a manager is how flexible they are and how willing they are to adapt their tactics to keep up to the changes and advancements in the way the game is played as well as notice their faults and work on improving them.

I think AVB has what it takes and, despite his work in the game to date, he is still very young for a man in his position and for that reason he will make mistakes as shown by what happened at Chelsea, which can somewhat be put down to his poor man management at the time (grossly exacerbated by the divas in the Chelsea dressing room though). The Friedel/Lloris situation last year was handled smoothly (despite what the papers wanted you to believe) and he has also become a lot more friendly with the media and seems to understand how to work them a bit better (something which he clearly did not know how to do at Chelsea).

In case you hadn't figured it out, all in all I'm very happy with him (and I don't even hate Redknapp )

 

[Colonel_K]

I really believe that AVB learnt from his experience at the Chavs and this has made him a far better coach. I think going to the Chavs from Porto with his record was a massive boost to his ego and bred some arrogance, you could just sense it in some of his interviews from that time. However since his humbling at the Chavs he seems to come across less surly, extremely articulate, the way he handled the Bale situation during the summer and the way the players seem to respect him are all major pluses in my book.

 

[Mick Cooper]

I see where you are coming from with regards to not having a playing career, it is an interesting discussion point as to what makes a good manager. do you want someone who's career is "purpose-built" as a manager who knows all about the technicalities and tactics or football, or one who is an experienced professional who may not have as extensive understanding of the game, but can relate to the players in terms of what they may be feeling and how to manage their mental state.

I reckon, like most things, the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle of these two extremes however, I do think a more important factor for a manager is how flexible they are and how willing they are to adapt their tactics to keep up to the changes and advancements in the way the game is played as well as notice their faults and work on improving them.

I think AVB has what it takes and, despite his work in the game to date, he is still very young for a man in his position and for that reason he will make mistakes as shown by what happened at Chelsea, which can somewhat be put down to his poor man management at the time (grossly exacerbated by the divas in the Chelsea dressing room though). The Friedel/Lloris situation last year was handled smoothly (despite what the papers wanted you to believe) and he has also become a lot more friendly with the media and seems to understand how to work them a bit better (something which he clearly did not know how to do at Chelsea).

In case you hadn't figured it out, all in all I'm very happy with him (and I don't even hate Redknapp )

I'm happy with him too, and I did like the way Redknapp got his teams to play (just not the way he handled himself publicly) - I'm not a fan-boy of players or managers, but neither am I beguiled by hype. AVB has done a good job and has got a great team to work with, the improvement defensively has been brilliant to see - from someone who has been watching porous Spurs defences for 30odd years, and the passing and movement has also been fabulous to watch. The only concern is the massive number of opportunities and the relatively low return in goals. However, I have plenty of faith that Soldado will click and when he gets one from open play, it will probably be like a dam bursting.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Oh sorry, has some first class footballing career that he has had, come to light?
I was under the impression that he had no professional skills of any note, from all that has been written and reported about him.
You obviously know something that I don't. - Just where in what I posted, was some kind of put down or condemnation of the man?
Fuck me, do you just look for any reason to criticise my posts?

No, you proved exactly what you are over PMs. I have no interest in waging a sad little internet feud with you Suffice it to say I sized you up immediately with the tone of your private communications after giving you the benefit of the doubt for a long time - private communications initiated by your following your own overreaction I might add. The likes of @ Lister hovering over their neg rep button might be wise to reserve judgment.

 

[BushHillSpurs]

The likes of @ Lister hovering over their neg rep button might be wise to reserve judgment.

Im not here to argue with you SS, but its actually a disagree button. You do not get another -1 on your rating for that.
Its like ronseal, it just means he disagrees with your opinion.
Dislike on the other hand, is what me and you seem to trade too often

 

[Mick Cooper]

No, you proved exactly what you are over PMs. I have no interest in waging a sad little internet feud with you Suffice it to say I sized you up immediately with the tone of your private communications after giving you the benefit of the doubt for a long time - private communications initiated by your following your own overreaction I might add. The likes of @ Lister hovering over their neg rep button might be wise to reserve judgment.

You sized me up - that works both ways. I have estimated your size to be roughly that of a self important windbag .
Oh - and you were replying to an answer I gave to someone else.

 

[Park Lane James]

I think you are being over defensive of him to be honest. People last season quite rightly voiced concerns, because the first few games were fucking pedestrian and lacklustre, and after 3 seasons of swashbuckling attack, attack, attack under Redknapps less inhibited style - it was a sea change that didn't sit well on the eye.
The less excitable amongst us realised that there was going to be a settling in period and after a while the cohesion and understanding emerged, and thankfully the results still kept coming, despite a reliance on being Bale'd out on more than one occasion.
AVB has exceeded my expectations, and that is obviously down to his man management and tactical acumen, which he must have an abundance of, as he has little or no personal skills experience to draw on (something DiCanio had bucket loads of, but lacked everything else) and he is a fantastic asset to the club.
I'm not sure I have seen any evidence of visionary leadership just yet, having a 100 million pound talent injection can't hurt any manager, but remember we put out a team valued far higher than the Goons, and they beat us - without us really putting their goal under any pressure, so we are definitely still a "work in progress" team.

We lost 1-0 away to Woolwich - that isn't exactly a catastrophic failure is it? Let's not forget that under his leadership we beat United away last season for the first time in 20-odd years! We'll see what happens this coming weekend against Chelsea, but we look more solid as a team then we have done in a long time. In previous years, it seemed that we could out-stretch a top opponent and rely on pivotal moments - but now I feelt hat we actually have the quality to go out and out-play the big teams for 90 minutes, while remaining solid at the back.

In terms of 'visionary', I made that comment because I think he really considers where a player should play within a team/system, why he performs certain roles and whether or not he is suited for that particular role. He was obviously a fan of the 4-3-3 at Porto, and seems to have cherry-picked certain players to be apart of this formation at Spurs (think of Hugo Lloris, who comes off his line with pace at a moment's notice).