Louis Van Gaal

[Tomo]

Im not getting drawn into this, hanging a whole argument on one word.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, We want 4th and that is the clubs expectation. If we dont get it we have failed, under Sherwood just as we would have under AVB.

Maybe but if we are simply talking about managers at the point of avb's sacking this clubs season was in meltdown, for someone to come in even just as a caretaker manager to put us back in contention for 4th when we looked out of
It and more likely to get 6th is a big achievement, it may still fall apart. However we cannot judge ts on 4th because he took over mid season in a crisis if he was manager at the start of the season I would be far less happy if we where not in the top 4 at this moment.

It is because we have got so many points under ts that we are back in it but it is also the reason why we have less room for a bad patch. I have said all along that ts will probably go at the end of the season but his performance so far, Woolwich, man city aside has been very good.

 

[Lister]

We were in contention for 4th when AVB was sacked.
We were also in the FA and League cups, as well as EUROPA.

Performances werent great, but people forget the position we were actually in - amazing how perception can influence views (and Im as guilty of it as anyone)

 

[NorseYid]

We were in contention for 4th when AVB was sacked.
We were also in the FA and League cups, as well as EUROPA.

Performances werent great, but people forget the position we were actually in - amazing how perception can influence views (and Im as guilty of it as anyone)

We were doing ok resultswise when AVB left, fewer points to title than now IIRC with many games to play and in both cups. Unfortunately the performances were poor and deteriorating fast.

Now we are doing almost just as well in terms of results and even 2 pts closer to CL, but out of both cups. Also performances have improved short term, but the lack of a gameplan raises worries long term. Still, with a negative net spend the board if not fans should be content.

Conclusion? AVB was sacked for other reasons. Should be clear to all.

 

[AlMacca_]

We were doing ok resultswise when AVB left, fewer points to title than now IIRC with many games to play and in both cups. Unfortunately the performances were poor and deteriorating fast.

Now we are doing almost just as well in terms of results and even 2 pts closer to CL, but out of both cups. Also performances have improved short term, but the lack of a gameplan raises worries long term. Still, with a negative net spend the board if not fans should be content.

Conclusion? AVB was sacked for other reasons. Should be clear to all.

what other reasons can you think of that would have got him sacked? I'm struggling here

 

[Lister]

what other reasons can you think of that would have got him sacked? I'm struggling here

Personally I think he lost it. I dont think it was results.

Seemed to me like he earned his stripes last year and was backed this year, Levy put up a lot for him - so Im inclined to think baring a catastrophic collapse (which didnt happen) it must be something else.

AVB was looking more and more under pressure, and the players were showing signs he could be losing the dressing room as well, when Liverpool scored the 5thhe looked like he was going to cry. I think he just folded, to be honest, or Levy saw he was about to.

 

[AlMacca_]

Personally I think he lost it. I dont think it was results.

Seemed to me like he earned his stripes last year and was backed this year, Levy put up a lot for him - so Im inclined to think baring a catastrophic collapse (which didnt happen) it must be something else.

AVB was looking more and more under pressure, and the players were showing signs he could be losing the dressing room as well, when Liverpool scored the 5thhe looked like he was going to cry. I think he just folded, to be honest, or Levy saw he was about to.

surely the results played a part in him losing it? Don't disagree with you btw but getting smashed by City and Liverpool would surely have had an impact on him and the team and played a part in him losing the dressing room

 

[Lister]

I dont know. In the main results were VERY good, those 2 games were oddities compared to the rest.

Perhaps he struggled to pick them up after the City mauling? The Liverpool one was shortly after and obviously then he got the chop.

Id think it was more the ongoing inability to get us scoring goals. He seemed to run out of ideas IMO and that would surely ramp up the pressure

 

[East17]

I dont know. In the main results were VERY good, those 2 games were oddities compared to the rest.

Perhaps he struggled to pick them up after the City mauling? The Liverpool one was shortly after and obviously then he got the chop.

Id think it was more the ongoing inability to get us scoring goals. He seemed to run out of ideas IMO and that would surely ramp up the pressure

he only seemed to have one idea! and it wasn't a very good one. i reckon his stubbornness to change his tactics was his ultimate downfall. wasn't there a story flying round that levy didn't intend to sack him after the Liverpool game, but AVB dug his own grave in post match post mortem

 

[CJJ]

I dont know. In the main results were VERY good, those 2 games were oddities compared to the rest.

Perhaps he struggled to pick them up after the City mauling? The Liverpool one was shortly after and obviously then he got the chop.

Id think it was more the ongoing inability to get us scoring goals. He seemed to run out of ideas IMO and that would surely ramp up the pressure

I think based on his character he built up more pressure for himself than Daniel would have.

I could imagine the meeting being "what can we do to help you André" kind of thing, and perhaps he was more like "I can't help you, you've bought too many players who aren't suited and I'm not going to sit around and take the blame for it" kind of thing


Pure speculation, but I take from the scenario and AVB's reaction to it all that he was just as likely to want to go through pressure and maybe some arrogance? After all, there was no LMA involvement, no tabloid bitching...

 

[NorseYid]

what other reasons can you think of that would have got him sacked? I'm struggling here

Because we were playing very, very poorly, because he right or wrong alienated at least one key player and because the players had as for many of them quite obviously given somewhat up on him.

It certainly isn't the results, which were quite good.

 

[NorseYid]

I think based on his character he built up more pressure for himself than Daniel would have.

I could imagine the meeting being "what can we do to help you André" kind of thing, and perhaps he was more like "I can't help you, you've bought too many players who aren't suited and I'm not going to sit around and take the blame for it" kind of thing


Pure speculation, but I take from the scenario and AVB's reaction to it all that he was just as likely to want to go through pressure and maybe some arrogance? After all, there was no LMA involvement, no tabloid bitching...

Pure speculation, but certainly not impossible.

 

[CJJ]

Pure speculation, but certainly not impossible.

It wouldn't surprise me if he (AVB) has two responses ready for the summer:

Response 1 (with Tim not getting CL qual)
Too much pressure, not supported by Levy, plays brought in he didn't want

Response 2 (Tim gets CL qual)
Built the foundations of that team, didn't get enough chance to finish his 'project'

Same as Chelsea, think he waits until he can make the right face saving response. Then he'll get a job elsewhere and we'll be the next ex he obsesses over in every Pre-Match Press Conference.

 

[AlMacca_]

Because we were playing very, very poorly, because he right or wrong alienated at least one key player and because the players had as for many of them quite obviously given somewhat up on him.

It certainly isn't the results, which were quite good.

certainly don't disagree with any of that apart from the last sentence. But we don't need to go back into all that

 

[NorseYid]

certainly don't disagree with any of that apart from the last sentence. But we don't need to go back into all that

Results good, some benchmarks better than now, though it hardly seems that way looking back. The place where TS has really improved us has been keeping in touch with whoever is in 4th place.

If Fulham weren't so poncy we'd be equal points with Liverscum. Alas.

Either TS's results are way better than we could reasonably expect. Very nice.

 

[welshiespursboy]

Im not getting drawn into this, hanging a whole argument on one word.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, We want 4th and that is the clubs expectation. If we dont get it we have failed, under Sherwood just as we would have under AVB.

What? Even if we win every game from here til the end of the season, and Liverpool don't slip up?

Don't be so fucking stupid

 

[Lister]

The target is 4th, if we dont get 4th we dont meet our target = we have failed in that endeavour.

Its perfectly logical, not "fucking stupid" at all.

Thats not to say the season wouldnt be without merit, is it?

 

[WookieD]

We were in contention for 4th when AVB was sacked.
We were also in the FA and League cups, as well as EUROPA.

Performances werent great, but people forget the position we were actually in - amazing how perception can influence views (and Im as guilty of it as anyone)

Not to run over old ground but we were completely devoid of any forward movement and hadn't looked like a team with goals in them for over a season, barring the Welsh simian kid.

His tactics didn't work on our small pitch - never once tried to account for it

We were labouriously slow with the ball so easy to park the bus against - never once tried to counter it

Said he'd learnt his lesson at Chelsea over poor man management - Froze two senior players out of the squad

...perceptions can be deceiving but many people had a legitimate gripe. When we announced his appointment I was pretty pessimistic but always supported him, especially with the way the press wanted him to fail. But his entire time in charge he proved he is completely inflexible and stubborn not only to a fault but to a catastrophic error.

The definition of stupidity is performing the same actions over and over again and expecting different results. Wish the bloke well but if he can't learn to adapt to his environment then he'll never make it in a league like ours or Bundesliga.

 

[Lister]

Ive never said otherwise Wookie, fair post

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Not to run over old ground but we were completely devoid of any forward movement and hadn't looked like a team with goals in them for over a season, barring the Welsh simian kid.

His tactics didn't work on our small pitch - never once tried to account for it

We were labouriously slow with the ball so easy to park the bus against - never once tried to counter it

Said he'd learnt his lesson at Chelsea over poor man management - Froze two senior players out of the squad

...perceptions can be deceiving but many people had a legitimate gripe. When we announced his appointment I was pretty pessimistic but always supported him, especially with the way the press wanted him to fail. But his entire time in charge he proved he is completely inflexible and stubborn not only to a fault but to a catastrophic error.

The definition of stupidity is performing the same actions over and over again and expecting different results. Wish the bloke well but if he can't learn to adapt to his environment then he'll never make it in a league like ours or Bundesliga.

All very good reasons why the childish shit you read on here that tells you you're an AVB lover if you disagree with Sherwood's appointment and vice versa is such baseless nonsense.

AVB had to go, no question. It's just such a shame that he appears not to have had the ability to learn from his mistakes. Shame, I feel sorry for him facing two high profile sackings at such a young age, but if he doesn't try and learn about what went wrong then he's destined to make the same mistake again. Unfortunately, I can't help but feel that some of his comments since leaving us suggest that he thinks most of the problem lies with Levy & co. A worrying lack of introspection over just why his tactics and formation were failing to deliver in the PL, both with us and Chelsea.

 

[sammyspurs]

What? Even if we win every game from here til the end of the season, and Liverpool don't slip up?

Don't be so fucking stupid

It will still be Sherwoods fault for not being a the Scary Terminator type in his interviews....AVB would have used better mind games to MAKE Liverpool slip up.