Lucas Moura

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Said that Moura shouldnt start games? I can find probably 20 posts you said that.

The other part was a dig at Poch, I never once claimed you said we should him as Llorente.
Look whos putting words into peoples mouths.

I wont hold my breath for an apology though

I'm referring to this Sammy: "The way I see it that any manager that tries to use Moura as he would Llorente, needs to have a word with himself".
This reference is utterly bogus, why even bother with it?

I HAVE been saying: He isn't a starter because he's not as good as those I've mentioned. Yes!

 

[Airfixx]

He will be starting games now as we have presumably Son out and Lamela out and maybe Kane too (I've no idea if he's on his deathbed with man flue or has the sniffles).

Either way, he has to turn up or we are even more fucked.

Do you feel more confident that we will score with potentially Kane, Son & Lemela out and Lucas in over the next few games?

Now he's gotta bail out our attack in another B-team like scenario...... Lucky Lucas.

 

[Macch]

On what basis is he deserving of a start?

Does he start ahead of Kane?

Does he start ahead of Son?

Does he start ahead of Lamela?

For me, it's a no on all of those players.

i would agree but we usually play with 4 attacking players don't we?

Dele? Looking better

Lucas had 15 fucking goals last season. 10 league 5 champs. It wasn't like he was beating up on shit teams in the FA cup.

Only Kane and Son had more goals than Lucas, yet Poch is content leading our 3rd leading score from last season rot on the bench.

It's madness. It's insanity.

 

[sammyspurs]

He will be starting games now as we have presumably Son out and Lamela out and maybe Kane too (I've no idea if he's on his deathbed with man flue or has the sniffles).

Either way, he has to turn up or we are even more fucked.

Do you feel more confident that we will score with potentially Kane, Son & Lemela out and Lucas in over the next few games?

Is this a serious question? After you just cried one off about me making shit up....?
Why would I feel confident of scoring more with Son, Kane and Lamela out?
Ive said I would replace Eriksen in the AM position with Moura and showed you the formations Id go with.

If those three are out, I dont expect Moura to be better without them than I would if he plays with them.

 

[sammyspurs]

Now he's gotta bail out our attack in another B-team like scenario...... Lucky Lucas.

So you think Moura could win the world cup on his own

 

[sammyspurs]

I'm referring to this Sammy: "The way I see it that any manager that tries to use Moura as he would Llorente, needs to have a word with himself".
This reference is utterly bogus, why even bother with it?

I HAVE been saying: He isn't a starter because he's not as good as those I've mentioned. Yes!

Its not a bogus reference, its a reference to the fact thats what Poch did yesterday, but you are ignoring that and saying the game is proof of why Moura shouldnt start games

 

[Airfixx]

So you think Moura could win the world cup on his own

Me? No.... But it seems he'll suddenly be expected to carry our attack until further notice (and be harshly judged should he not be able to).

 

[sammyspurs]

Me? No.... But it seems he'll suddenly be expected to carry our attack until further notice (and harshly judged should he not be able to).

I know I know mate......feels like the whole forum has morphed into arcspace.

I said Moura would be better in the AMs playing with Kane and Son, or with Kane, Son and Lamela in a four.

And the question then put to me was "so you think Moura will score more goals on his own if Kane, Lamela and Son are injured"

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

1. That implies everyone else is on form.... If they all play so much better together then why is our attack so stagnant?
2. That ignores the previously cited stance that he's not being played to his strengths.

1. We've scored 17 goals this season 5th best so hardly stagnant, miles & miles off our best but not a disaster within the context of the league overall. And this is with an out of form AM's and attackers.

2. Also, I don't think it does. I thought we were shit against Utd. arguably our worst performance of the entire season last year. But Lucas made the most of his strengths, DRIBBLING/RUNNING with the ball and this was the difference and why we won.

I'm not for one moment expecting him to replicate that every week but he had all the space in the world yesterday to run at Everton who has one of the worst defensive records in the league, they didn't park the bus so it was there for him to show his strengths.....he attempted 5 dribbles and won one of them (I'm taking this off whoscored so I don't know what their criteria for a dribble is but I don't even remember him doing even one).

Yesterday on paper was a day set-up for him to shine, playing against a shit defence, who aren't set up in a low block camped with 10 men behind the ball, this type of game there is justification to even start him. A player who has pace, who can dribble and isolate defenders, have them turned and running back to their own goal. He didn't show up.

 

[Jin Lee]

Unfair to judge him on the Everton game. He hasn't had a good run of games, was played out of position, alongside Eriksen who doesn't help much anymore, and without Kane. At any rate Poch needs to play him more, at least sub him on earlier if he's going to put him on the bench.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

i would agree but we usually play with 4 attacking players don't we?

Dele? Looking better

Lucas had 15 fucking goals last season. 10 league 5 champs. It wasn't like he was beating up on shit teams in the FA cup.

Only Kane and Son had more goals than Lucas, yet Poch is content leading our 3rd leading score from last season rot on the bench.

It's madness. It's insanity.

I think Lamela has a better goal to mins ratio but can't be arsed to work it out.

I think he's just not starting above those I've mentioned. I think they are all better and I'm not using goals and assists as the binary measure. I think he's a maverick (there is always space for a maverick) but with all the others I've mentioned they knit better, keep the ball higher up the pitch, press better create as a unit better by creating for each other.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Now he's gotta bail out our attack in another B-team like scenario...... Lucky Lucas.

Yep, it doesn't bode well. I hope he can find something better than yesterday.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Is this a serious question? After you just cried one off about me making shit up....?
Why would I feel confident of scoring more with Son, Kane and Lamela out?
Ive said I would replace Eriksen in the AM position with Moura and showed you the formations Id go with.

If those three are out, I dont expect Moura to be better without them than I would if he plays with them.

Good we are on the same page on that then.

 

[Borks]

Whether or not he was shit yesterday you can always trust football fans to judge a player based on one performance out of position.

He played up top in front of Eriksen and Dele ffs, Kane has looked woeful with no service from them so what were people expecting from Lucas? Also the bloke barely gets a run in the team because of our useless manager. Might as well judge Sess on the 1 minute he had.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Its not a bogus reference, its a reference to the fact thats what Poch did yesterday, but you are ignoring that and saying the game is proof of why Moura shouldnt start games

I took it as though you were suggesting that I had implied that. Sorry if I took this wrong.

If it's at all relevant I don't see Poch playing Lucas as he would Llorente. We certainly didn't attempt to hoof long balls onto his head for him to knock down to Son. Lucas has played as a striker or 2nd striker numerous times in his career, it's not something completely alien to him.

 

[Macch]

Whether or not he was shit yesterday you can always trust football fans to judge a player based on one performance out of position.

He played up top in front of Eriksen and Dele ffs, Kane has looked woeful with no service from them so what were people expecting from Lucas? Also the bloke barely gets a run in the team because of our useless manager. Might as well judge Sess on the 1 minute he had.

This season in a nutshell huh?

Dele on the wing
Eriksen on the pitch (or on the wing)
Sanchez at RB
Winks at CDM
Son started on the RW yesterday
Lucas as a striker

I'll be excited to see Kane back at GK

 

[Borodin55]

....Perhaps on the basis that we've sorely lacked attacking dynamism?

Is that word in any way connected to the word 'dynamic' ??

 

[BernardMatthews]

i would agree but we usually play with 4 attacking players don't we?

Dele? Looking better

Lucas had 15 fucking goals last season. 10 league 5 champs. It wasn't like he was beating up on shit teams in the FA cup.

Only Kane and Son had more goals than Lucas, yet Poch is content leading our 3rd leading score from last season rot on the bench.

It's madness. It's insanity.

Not really madness or insanity at all IMHO.

From memory at least 6 of those 15 goals came when Kane was injured. The 2 x hat-tricks.

And I would bet the majority of the remaining 9 goals he got came when either Kane or Son were out or used as a sub. (He started a lot of games last year with Kane injured and Son away).

Playing all 3 of them together has rarely worked

I think on occasion it has, although I wouldn’t say it’s our best formation to play by any means. Need better defensive midfielders.

So to me playing those 3 as a front 3 every game would be madness with our current personnel.

And if you think dropping Son for Lucas is not insanity then fair enough.

But I 100% think that dropping Kane for Lucas would be insanity.


So maybe some sense is in there somewhere.......

 

[Airfixx]

1. We've scored 17 goals this season 5th best so hardly stagnant, miles & miles off our best but not a disaster within the context of the league overall. And this is with an out of form AM's and attackers.

C'mon dude; we're struggling to create decent chances over the course of 90mins... Meanwhile the current furore surrounding the form of CE & Dele speaks for itself... We're scoring MORE than our XG total most weeks.

2. Also, I don't think it does. I thought we were shit against Utd. arguably our worst performance of the entire season last year. But Lucas made the most of his strengths, DRIBBLING/RUNNING with the ball and this was the difference and why we won.

I'm not sure what that has to do with me saying he's not being played to his strengths, being shoe-horned in as a CF or being expected to be a stand-alone hero in a B-team kind of scenario or in 10min cameos.

I'm not for one moment expecting him to replicate that every week but he had all the space in the world yesterday to run at Everton who has one of the worst defensive records in the league, they didn't park the bus so it was there for him to show his strengths.....he attempted 5 dribbles and won one of them (I'm taking this off whoscored so I don't know what their criteria for a dribble is but I don't even remember him doing even one).

....In a makeshift attack, in some half-baked Aux-CF role.

Yesterday on paper was a day set-up for him to shine, playing against a shit defence, who aren't set up in a low block camped with 10 men behind the ball, this type of game there is justification to even start him. A player who has pace, who can dribble and isolate defenders, have them turned and running back to their own goal. He didn't show up.

You say "set up for him to shine"; I say, playing in a weakened, off-form attack without a focal point whilst being expected to hold the ball up like a genuine CF (which of course he isn't).

Sonny (eg) earned his rep here flat-tracking in the Europa league and being eased into an already high functioning team; my point is Lucas isn't blessed with that luxury. For me Moura is one of the obvious victims of our persisting with the shitty diamond formation for so long. Perhaps let's re-convene on this debate if we ever get the chance to assess Lucas on the basis of a decent run as part of a full strength, decent-form attack whilst playing in his natural position.

 

[Airfixx]

I took it as though you were suggesting that I had implied that. Sorry if I took this wrong.

If it's at all relevant I don't see Poch playing Lucas as he would Llorente. We certainly didn't attempt to hoof long balls onto his head for him to knock down to Son. Lucas has played as a striker or 2nd striker numerous times in his career, it's not something completely alien to him.

That doesn't mean he's suited to it or that it doesn't negate his best qualities though.