Rodrigo Bentancur

[Deuterz]

Son's tally last season was a massive outlier, but putting that aside, outscoring xg is only one aspect of being a good player. Granted, Son at his best is REALLY clinical, which is why he's still a top player.

Outside of scoring Son is severely lacking in many important areas. He's weak, he can't retain possession, his first touch is inconsistent, can't head a ball, doesn't press or track back well, doesn't have any vision to speak of, can't win the ball in a tackle, etc etc.

Apart from goal scoring Kulu is the better winger because he has a more well rounded game and influences the game over 90 mins.

Bentancur is better than Son for the same reason. Whether he can keep it up is a different matter.

27 g/a season before last. 21 before that. That was no outlier. Unbelievable at getting in behind, brilliant finisher. You may not have enjoyed watching him but he terrified defences, scored so many big game goals & was a top 5 LW in world football.

Bentancur/Kulu have so, so far to go to get to prime Son level. Are they silkier to watch? Yes. Are they more effective? No, absolutely not.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

27 g/a season before last. 21 before that. That was no outlier. Unbelievable at getting in behind, brilliant finisher. You may not have enjoyed watching him but he terrified defences, scored so many big game goals & was a top 5 LW in world football.

Bentancur/Kulu have so, so far to go to get to prime Son level. Are they silkier to watch? Yes. Are they more effective? No, absolutely not.

Complete and utter nonsese. If anything Son is more pleasing to the eye than Kulu. Kulu is far more effective over 90 mins cos he links the midfield and attack, he makes key passes, holds up the ball, breaks past a deep block, tracks back, etc etc. He doesn't disappear from games when not in the act of scoring/shooting.

Son is a glass cannon, utterly devastating for those short moments of brilliance but otherwise contributes almost nothing.

 

[daveyboy88]

27 g/a season before last. 21 before that. That was no outlier. Unbelievable at getting in behind, brilliant finisher. You may not have enjoyed watching him but he terrified defences, scored so many big game goals & was a top 5 LW in world football.

Bentancur/Kulu have so, so far to go to get to prime Son level. Are they silkier to watch? Yes. Are they more effective? No, absolutely not.

a team sitting deep would rather see son on the ball than kulu, hes by far a more effective footballer than son in games like today. son might of edged him for effectiveness in an open game but not by much either i dont think. kulu been our best player since he signed. he has the actual quality you expect to see from a champions league forward, every tool going in his box. son has/had pace, finishing and crossing. kulu has everything except lightning pace.

 

[daveyboy88]

If anything Son is more pleasing to the eye than Kulu.

to a casual that hasnt got a clue yea.

on crouch's podcast they asked his mrs messi or ronaldo and she said ronaldo! all messi has is going for him is hes a bit quick lol. to people like her son is more pleasing on the eye.

 

[Deuterz]

a team sitting deep would rather see son on the ball than kulu, hes by far a more effective footballer than son in games like today. son might of edged him for effectiveness in an open game but not by much either i dont think. kulu been our best player since he signed. he has the actual quality you expect to see from a champions league forward, every tool going in his box. son has/had pace, finishing and crossing. kulu has everything except lightning pace.

Christ, the way you two talk about him you'd think he fluked 20+ g/a in the league 3 seasons in a row & a ridiculous record in the CL .. talk about not liking a player. Acting like all he could do is run & shoot when he had double figures for assists 2 seasons in a row .. Son at his best was a dangerous dribbler, really good at crossing the ball & not a bad passer in his own right.

As for the bullshit subjective 'actual quality you'd expect to see from a CL forward' shit - Son's goals were part of why we got to a CL final. He's never been a complete player but absolutely earned a reputation as one of the best left wingers in world football. You don't need to be good at everything to be a great footballer, the game has specialist roles for a reason.

 

[daveyboy88]

He's never been a complete player but absolutely earned a reputation as one of the best left wingers in world football. You don't need to be good at everything to be a great footballer, the game has specialist roles for a reason.

hes a counter attacking forward. games very simple then. hed never play for a team better than us because they play against teams that sit deep every week. the best wingers can play on the break but can also break down teams who are looking to defend. you are not a world class forward if you can only play on the break. he was probably top 3 players in the world on the break! but the top teams dont play against teams that come and have a go every week, they play against sides who get back and compact and thats when son is useless.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

to a casual that hasnt got a clue yea.

on crouch's podcast they asked his mrs messi or ronaldo and she said ronaldo! all messi has is going for him is hes a bit quick lol. to people like her son is more pleasing on the eye.

Yeah, that's kind of what I mean, superficially, Son is more pleasing to the eye. Compared to him Kane and Kulu both look a bit awkward and uncoordinates.

He's got a Ronaldo type posture/sillhouette, and his step overs are straight out of fifa.

 

[Deuterz]

hes a counter attacking forward. games very simple then. hed never play for a team better than us because they play against teams that sit deep every week. the best wingers can play on the break but can also break down teams who are looking to defend. you are not a world class forward if you can only play on the break. he was probably top 3 players in the world on the break! but the top teams dont play against teams that come and have a go every week, they play against sides who get back and compact and thats when son is useless.

Haaland plays for City right fucking now, he's a worse footballer to watch on the ball than Son Heung Min is, he's just exceptional physically, has great movement and is very good at putting the ball in the net. Ronaldo for the latter half of his career was mostly shit to watch, guess what? Good at scoring goals a lot, clubs tend to value it.

BTW I can't be arsed to drag it up but Son's goalscoring record vs bottom half teams is almost certainly not bad, since you don't hit those numbers without scoring plenty vs teams sitting deep. Acting like he ONLY scored vs teams playing a high line is a joke, he won the fucking puskas award for a goal vs pissing Burnley.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Christ, the way you two talk about him you'd think he fluked 20+ g/a in the league 3 seasons in a row & a ridiculous record in the CL .. talk about not liking a player. Acting like all he could do is run & shoot when he had double figures for assists 2 seasons in a row .. Son at his best was a dangerous dribbler, really good at crossing the ball & not a bad passer in his own right.

As for the bullshit subjective 'actual quality you'd expect to see from a CL forward' shit - Son's goals were part of why we got to a CL final. He's never been a complete player but absolutely earned a reputation as one of the best left wingers in world football. You don't need to be good at everything to be a great footballer, the game has specialist roles for a reason.

If that's your take away from it, you lack reading comprehension.

No one is saying he's fluking goals, I've acknowledged his insane shooting ability more than once. His assists are less clear cut, some decent passes but not proportional to the number of assists he's got, nothing that marks him out as a having notable vision or passing ability.

Can't believe you've suddenly turned into a stats nonce.

No one said Son has to be good at everything, but even for a forward his abilities outside of runs and scoring range from the unremarkable to the embarassing.

 

[daveyboy88]

Haaland plays for City right fucking now, he's a worse footballer to watch on the ball than Son Heung Min is, he's just exceptional physically, has great movement and is very good at putting the ball in the net. Ronaldo for the latter half of his career was mostly shit to watch, guess what? Good at scoring goals a lot, clubs tend to value it.

debatable about haaland. hes also not involved in the buildup he barely touches the ball, he doesnt need to they have 5 playmakers out there working the ball into the box for him, his movement is 10/10 in the box so he works for city.

maybe youre right maybe son isnt such a hindrance against teams sitting deep. just strange how i watch him run into dead ends and cough up possession everytime in simple situations. he doesnt know how to just tick over and recycle the ball if nothing's on. its all or nothing with him against teams sitting deep and its nothing 99% of the time. im not interested in stats anyway i use my eyes, can see he struggles badly when it comes to playing actual football. even if he has scored a few against bottom sides so what? his presence would of made the game a struggle it didnt need to be. like united last year, everyone saying ronaldo scored so many goals...but the team suffered for that and they was shit. went from 2nd and looking like things are on the up to that shambles.

you got any of these good passes from son to cite?

 

[Deuterz]

debatable about haaland. hes also not involved in the buildup he barely touches the ball, he doesnt need to they have 5 playmakers out there working the ball into the box for him, his movement is 10/10 in the box so he works for city.

maybe youre right maybe son isnt such a hindrance against teams sitting deep. just strange how i watch him run into dead ends and cough up possession everytime in simple situations. he doesnt know how to just tick over and recycle the ball if nothing's on. its all or nothing with him against teams sitting deep and its nothing 99% of the time. im not interested in stats anyway i use my eyes, can see he struggles badly when it comes to playing actual football. even if he has scored a few against bottom sides so what? his presence would of made the game a struggle it didnt need to be. like united last year, everyone saying ronaldo scored so many goals...but the team suffered for that and they was shit. went from 2nd and looking like things are on the up to that shambles.

We do not look better without Son in the team & without him scoring every half chance he gets can't win a big game for toffee because he was the guy consistently bagging vs the best defences last season, and for years for us.

Anyway whatever, it's not his thread. Entitled to your opinions.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Haaland plays for City right fucking now, he's a worse footballer to watch on the ball than Son Heung Min is, he's just exceptional physically, has great movement and is very good at putting the ball in the net. Ronaldo for the latter half of his career was mostly shit to watch, guess what? Good at scoring goals a lot, clubs tend to value it.

BTW I can't be arsed to drag it up but Son's goalscoring record vs bottom half teams is almost certainly not bad, since you don't hit those numbers without scoring plenty vs teams sitting deep. Acting like he ONLY scored vs teams playing a high line is a joke, he won the fucking puskas award for a goal vs pissing Burnley.

He's wrong to say Son couldn't play in a better team than Spurs, but I think he'd certainly struggle in a team like City, where he'd be expected to excute near metronomic passing, unless he played as the striker.

Ronaldo was still a more complete player in his latter days than Son, he had the clinical finishing and he could head the ball, and his passing in the final third was also slightly better.

What Haaland is doing in terms of goalscoring is on another level to anything PL player has done in a very long time, not at all comparable to Son. Haaland is clunker looking than Son but he's still a more complete player. He can run in behind with place just like Son, but with the added bonus of outrageous strength. He can score headers, he can hold up the ball a bit, and he can use his strength to work shooting opportunities.

His general lack of link up play gets glossed over by fans cos as a striker it's less important, but City players like KDB and Pep himself have commented on it more than once. They want more than goals from him.

 

[daveyboy88]

We do not look better without Son in the team

yea weve looked electric this year, hes stunk the place out for like 18 games or whatever it is,

 

[bonaspur23]

We do not look better without Son in the team & without him scoring every half chance he gets can't win a big game for toffee because he was the guy consistently bagging vs the best defences last season, and for years for us.

Anyway whatever, it's not his thread. Entitled to your opinions.

Even last season, I don’t think son was nearly as good as 3-4 seasons ago. Statistically yes, but he just can’t dribble past a player anymore… even much of last season.

He’s a poacher now and much less of an all around player. He got by with his speed and his passing wasn’t great but he could beat a player off the dribble and create a numerical advantage and easier pass… hence, the good assist totals.

But now that he’s lost that, he’s lost everything but his shooting and running in behind.

He’s pretty similar to Sterling, the biggest difference being son is a better shooter and I know you rate Sterling much higher than I do.

 

[daveyboy88]

He's wrong to say Son couldn't play in a better team than Spurs,

who does he play for then? the better sides than us all play proactive football that requires intelligence and technique.

City, where he'd be expected to excute near metronomic passing,

you talk about metronomic passing. you see that akanji for them? hes their eric dier. awful player. passing behind players etc, if they got him starting games the league is wide open.

 

[jack sparrow]

it is not casual he has begun to score when we switched to 352

 

[Jimmy G]

What defines a good footballer is entirely subjective. Son has been one of the most effective forwards in the Premier League for years, up there with the best in the world in terms of performing above xG. Last season he contributed to 30 league goals despite not being a penalty taker. Extraordinary.

Bentancur is a good all round CM & flavour of the month, like Romero was not so long ago. Not saying either aren't good players, but Son/Kane have had years at the top level of being elite forwards, putting up numbers in both the CL & PL.

To be fair Bentancur is 25 and has 8 major medals in his cabinet, he is a top quality midfielder with the medals to back it up. Son and Kane are top players but aren’t proven winners like Bentancur

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

 

[Spursidol]

What a pair signed last January.

My only question from this video is whether that move was made at Juventus or Spurs. Otherwise its just a great move from 2 outstanding players.

 

[Spursidol]