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I think he’s looked ok as a wide forward, good touch and keep the ball but yeah not run in behind nor looked dangerous
the five sub rule will be a big change,
when it was used with covid not many managers understood how to use these extra sub's
hope Conte's coaching team understand what it means to team shape/proformance and use it in practice matches to see how to maximise it
also allows you to bring on young player (sub 4) and keep sub 5 in case you need it
when it was used with covid not many managers understood how to use these extra sub's
hope Conte's coaching team understand what it means to team shape/proformance and use it in practice matches to see how to maximise it
also allows you to bring on young player (sub 4) and keep sub 5 in case you need it
Agree. I believe you can only make 3 substitute stops eg you can’t make 5 separate changes so I suspect you will see a manager changing two or even three players on 60 mins or even earlier and holding back two subs for injuries or tactical reasons
Umm... what?
Like someone said - Bergwijn has proven that he is good at running behind the lines.
But saying that "Bergwijn is better technically better and in build up" - what? How?
Son has given 7 assists in EPL this season and overall 72 assists for Spurs (1 for every 300 minutes played across all comps).
Berg has 1 assist in EPL this season, overall 10, one for every 350 minutes.
And that is just for assists, but from finishing point of view, Son is very far off from Berg.
Not to mention that Son has shown this ratio over very long time and been very consistent year after year. So.. no, as of now Bergwijn is shown improvement in many fields but he is not technically better nor better in build up than Son.
Last 6 games Son has played we have won 5.
He has 5 goals + 1 assist in these games.
When counting goal contributions (G+A) he is only behind Salah in the whole league.
So if we want to get results, we need Son starting. Maybe there would be some game where Son feels fatique or some issue, but when both are fit and can play, Son has shown he deserves to start.
And I repeat myself - from attacking point of view Berg should be obviously the 1st player off the bench as things stand.
Okay, but a few things.
1. Bergwijn played under Jose who did not want him scoring goals but rather to defend, which he did. So really I think we should totally disregard all those games, and again, all games under Nuno. What matters, if we are looking at stats alone, are the stats under Conte.
2. Most failed to recognise Son even after that second season. I would say it was only the last two seasons that people have almost universally accepted Son is brilliant. That's my point really, that fans often don't seem to recognise quality until it is established, but young players start off being inconcistent.
4. Lamela was a good player in his own way, not a big goal scorer, but nothing like Bergwijn in my view, totally different types of players.
Berg controls the ball at his feet much better than Son does. However, Son is quicker, faster, and finishes chances better than Berg (and pretty much everyone in the league).
Son is quite clearly the better overall player but his one weakness is that his touch lets him down. Berg has a silky touch. He should definitely come on as first sub ahead of Lucas.
Son is quite clearly the better overall player but his one weakness is that his touch lets him down. Berg has a silky touch. He should definitely come on as first sub ahead of Lucas.
Imagine bale, eriksen and berg being subbed in together on the 70th minute..
Now Rodon is someone I'd like to see leave. Not because he's a poor player (he is not) but because he's good enough to be playing regular premier league football. He's not going to get regular time under Conte and his performances for Wales (a lot of the time against superior opposition) suggest he is a good player.
Would do well at a mid-table premier league club, imo and would be much better for his development.
As for Mr Stevo, I like him. Nice lad, very much a confidence player. I think he'll be moved on in the summer though.
Loan deal for me tbh. He’s still young and if he can show his quality playing regularly, I’d like to think he could make a career with us
Bergwijn is good enough to be a PL player in my opinion and by that I mean to start regularly.
More than likely not quite at the level we need but damn good nonetheless.
But when he comes on as sub he gives his all. When he starts he really tries and when you contrast that to Ndombele, every single day I would rather the Dutchman, even with the lesser natural talent.
He will leave but we will get decent money for him and maybe live to regret the sale.
More than likely not quite at the level we need but damn good nonetheless.
But when he comes on as sub he gives his all. When he starts he really tries and when you contrast that to Ndombele, every single day I would rather the Dutchman, even with the lesser natural talent.
He will leave but we will get decent money for him and maybe live to regret the sale.
100%. Lucas has his place though, he has the ability to create panic and change the dynamics of our attack so has his place. Miles away from starting games now tho
The five subs ting might get another year out of him through to the WC. Would expect a decent fee if he does go as been banging for Holland too
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1 - You say "Jose who did not want him scoring goals".
Here's a quote from Mourinho;
“We need him to score goals. Of course we know he has the ability to do that,”
"I believe the goals will arrive if his condition improves.”
Yes Mourinho requires more defensive work from his players but he was signed to score/create goals with Eriksen leaving that window.
Regardless of playing a more defensive role he would still get in goal threatening positions and often produce a low confidence shank.
2 - Son was the same age as Bergwijn is now in his 2nd season but deserved the minutes being in the team more to produce more. Hopefully when Bergwijn gets a chance to have a run of games he will snatch it playing with the confidence he has shown the past few weeks.
4 - Lamela was signed to replace Bale on the back of scoring 21? goals for Roma the season before. I believe the idea with him was to replace produced/scored goals we were losing - the same as Bergwijn. Injuries included, he wasn't capable of that. Calling Lamela a 'good' player for us is suitably ambiguous.
Is it only the Spurs fan base who can't credit a player unless it's to the detriment of a teammate? Bergwijn is a very useful young player with space to improve. He is a asset who deserves more minutes. These facts speak for themselves independent of Son Lucas or Kane.
I can't speak for anyone else but I am not denigrating Lucas for saying that Bergwijn deserves to come off the bench before Lucas. When we are discussing why Berg deserves more minutes, it has to come at the expense of one or more of our attackers losing minutes. That's all I was getting at with my post. Berg has performed better than Lucas and should be rewarded with the sub minutes that Lucas gets (coming on ~70 min mark) rather than what he has been resigned to (coming on for time wasting during ET).
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The thing with Bergwijn is his lack of minutes though.
You say he deserves more of them, but you can't field 12 men - so you have to replace a player to give him those starts, and who honestly can say he deserves minutes ahead of Kane, Kulu or Son?
So you have to look at his teammates because they are the cause of his predicament where he doesn't get 'the minutes he deserves'.
What Bergwijn needs to do is play with a rocket up his arse when he gets a chance.
Conte has started him in 2 games I believe, West Ham at home in the league cup where he scored and got an assist and Chelsea away in the league where everyone was terrible.
If other players are fit I don't see Bergwijn starting another game this season and wouldn't blame him if he wanted to leave. The idea he deserves more minutes is a lovely idea, but practically you are saying another player doesn't deserve those minute too.
Personally I just agree with Conte's choices. He's clearly far more qualified than any of us on here to make those kinds of calls.
1. Come on, I was just using shorthand - of course Jose wanted him to score goals, BUT he was a defensive coach and goals were secondary. The priority was that he defended, and he did as he was asked. Some games he spent almost the entire time defending and working hard doing a good job of it to, but he simply was not being used as an attacking player as he should be, and now is.
2. The squad is so different now. Who did Son displace? Townsend/Chadli - we can't expect Bergwijn to displace Son. Not yet anyway. It's just a different situation.
3. As you say, he is likely to get more chances and next season in more comps there will be more game time but he will need to be patient. I expect it will be 2 seasons yet before he is a starter every game.
4. Lamela scored goals at Roma. He couldn't do it in the prem. I think Bergwijn is a better player, with goals in him in this league. I say Lamela was good because he was. He adapted to the league to be useful but he was no better than good because he didn't score enough goals. Some fans never rated him because of it. I think that was a mistake, he was a good player for us. I wish he had fulfilled his Roma promise and also scored many more goals but the Italian league is weaker/easier. Same is true of the eredivisie but Bergwijn has genuine promise in my view.
I guess only time will tell but I expect him to stay at least a season. I hope he stays beyond that and grows as a player. I think at some point he could just tick all the boxes and score a lot of goals for us.
He's a good squad player but clearly not better than any of the 3 starting, and whilst we only play 1 game a week it would be madness to break up an attacking 3 which is the deadliest in the league currently. Hopefully next season we're in Europe and stronger in the domestic cups, and he gets plenty of minutes, because rotation will be needed.
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Stateside Spur
I was not talking specifically to either of you. I was speaking to the issue of people constantly pitting Son against Kane and Lucas against Bergwijn.
to your point about minutes your just wrong its a logical fallacy to say more minutes come directly at another players expense in the context of me saying he needs more game time. These things are not exclusive.
Conte said himself our cup failures cost him time. If you want something to pin it on, this is as valid as framing it as player A vs player B.
Football is a squad game and part of our clubs problem has in large part been our inability to recognise this for what it is. The horrible Levynomics narrative of "No one wants to come here to compete against Harry Kane" is so facile its a joke the person its damaged the most is Harry Kane. Man United won the ECL with a front four of Cole, Yorke Sheringham Solskar. At one point in the not distant past we had Defoe Bent Berbatov Keane. This is how you win.
Edit: forgive me if I attributed your points tge wrong way round.
Stateside Spur
I was not talking specifically to either of you. I was speaking to the issue of people constantly pitting Son against Kane and Lucas against Bergwijn.to your point about minutes your just wrong its a logical fallacy to say more minutes come directly at another players expense in the context of me saying he needs more game time. These things are not exclusive.
Conte said himself our cup failures cost him time. If you want something to pin it on, this is as valid as framing it as player A vs player B.
Football is a squad game and part of our clubs problem has in large part been our inability to recognise this for what it is. The horrible Levynomics narrative of "No one wants to come here to compete against Harry Kane" is so facile its a joke the person its damaged the most is Harry Kane. Man United won the ECL with a front four of Cole, Yorke Sheringham Solskar. At one point in the not distant past we had Defoe Bent Berbatov Keane. This is how you win.
Edit: forgive me if I attributed your points tge wrong way round.
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