The “They’re really going to have a World Cup in QATAR?” Thread

[Airfixx]

If you took the time to read you would seen I was comparing thr laws in each country and how people follow the status quo of outrage.

Germany and Italy allows sex with 14 year olds. Yet that seems acceptable to you? Why isn't their international condemnation?

Whereas countries who ban homosexuality is universally condemned.

Why did nobody boycott Russia for its stance on homosexuals? Why did nobody boycott Brazil for its 'cleansing' of the slums of Rio. How many of the 19000 families died as a result of being forcefully evicted and the land being handed over to the wealthy to turn the area into a 'poverty theme park' for tourists.

It's double standards.

People certainly spoke out against Russia......

World Cup: Pussy Riot protesters jailed over pitch demonstration

Four anti-Putin activists ran onto the pitch in the World Cup final between France and Croatia.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukrainian Protesters Call For Boycott Of FIFA World Cup In Russia

A small demonstration was held on June 14 outside the European Union representative's office in the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, calling for a boycott of the FIFA World Cup in Russia.

www.rferl.org

Meanwhile, seems The Guardian had a word or two to say about Brazil:

World Cup: Rio favelas being 'socially cleansed' in runup to sporting events

Slum dwellers say thousands forced out of their homes to make way for building projects for tournament and 2016 Olympics

www.theguardian.com

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

So that means that whenever someone highlights any injustice then they must mention every group that has been, or is being, discriminated against.

Well yeah, that's literally been your argument, that England/The FA shouldn't make a stand against racism unless they also make a stand against Qatar gar rights issues.

Somehow it's ok for you to pick and choose the ones you have time and resource to make a stand against, but not them?

After all the word "all" to encompass ALL groups that are being discriminated against just doesn't cut it.

The FA's words "They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality" can encompass more than you've chosen them to as well.

Thanks for finally understanding why your argument is ludicrous, even if you don't seem to realise it.

 

[Hotspurpaul]

Well yeah, that's literally been your argument, that England/The FA shouldn't make a stand against racism unless they also make a stand against Qatar gar rights issues.

Somehow it's ok for you to pick and choose the ones you have time and resource to make a stand against, but not them?



The FA's words "They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality" can encompass more than you've chosen them to as well.

Thanks for finally understanding why your argument is ludicrous, even if you don't seem to realise it.

 

[stevee]

Well yeah, that's literally been your argument, that England/The FA shouldn't make a stand against racism unless they also make a stand against Qatar gar rights issues.

Somehow it's ok for you to pick and choose the ones you have time and resource to make a stand against, but not them?



The FA's words "They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality" can encompass more than you've chosen them to as well.

Thanks for finally understanding why your argument is ludicrous, even if you don't seem to realise it.

You've really lost the plot on this one.

Nowhere, except in your head, have I said that anyone should "pick and choose".
On the contrary I have said that all (yes, there's that word again) minorities should be treated equally.

If you have any doubts about my views then look at the "racism, prejudice, apathy, acceptance" thread.
Then look at who started it and then see my comments about all people being treated equally.

But you continue with your delusions.

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

You've really lost the plot on this one.

Nowhere, except in your head, have I said that anyone should "pick and choose".
On the contrary I have said that all (yes, there's that word again) minorities should be treated equally.

I know you haven't. You've not even said that in my head. That's really fucking clearly and precisely the opposite to what I've always thought you're saying, in fact. I'm not claiming that's your point.

You've been arguing that they can't pick and choose, yes?

That they have to be 'all or nothing', yes?

They've already said "protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality", which is no less catch all than your statement. This is what I'm questioning, and why I don't get your beef.

 

[stevee]

I know you haven't. You've not even said that in my head. That's really fucking clearly and precisely the opposite to what I've always thought you're saying, in fact. I'm not claiming that's your point.

You've been arguing that they can't pick and choose, yes?

That they have to be 'all or nothing', yes?

They've already said "protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality", which is no less catch all than your statement. This is what I'm questioning, and why I don't get your beef.

What on earth are you doing you waffling on about?

You accused me of "picking and choosing", by excluding women's rights in Qatar, and now you are saying that I made a statement that includes everyone.
I did make statement, which by using the word "all" includes all minorities.

Make up your mind.
Either I'm excluding a group or I'm including everyone.

 

[Hotspurpaul]

I know you haven't. You've not even said that in my head. That's really fucking clearly and precisely the opposite to what I've always thought you're saying, in fact. I'm not claiming that's your point.

You've been arguing that they can't pick and choose, yes?

That they have to be 'all or nothing', yes?

They've already said "protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality", which is no less catch all than your statement. This is what I'm questioning, and why I don't get your beef.

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

What on earth are you doing you waffling on about?

You accused me of "picking and choosing", by excluding women's rights in Qatar, and now you are saying that I made a statement that includes everyone.
I did make statement, which by using the word "all" includes all minorities.

Make up your mind.
Either I'm excluding a group or I'm including everyone.

You've absolutely missed my point, which was that you have totally contradicted yourself by doing exactly what you're slating England/The FA for.

 

[stevee]

You've absolutely missed my point, which was that you have totally contradicted yourself by doing exactly what you're slating England/The FA for.

Can you explain exactly how I have done that, bearing in mind that I've used the word "all" to include ALL minorities and ALL groups that suffer from prejudice.?

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Maybe you missed the bit where I said...


:mourfacepalm:

See I just do not get or agree with all or nothing because that is not how change happens never has. I respect your opinion but I don't and never will share it. By this logic we'd still have Jim Crow and Apartheid era South Africa whilst waiting for Islamic reform.

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

Can you explain exactly how I have done that, bearing in mind that I've used the word "all" to include ALL minorities and ALL groups that suffer from prejudice.?

I already did in umpteen posts, but you (deliberately or not, I really can't tell) choose to misunderstand the point I'm making (as you have yet again), so nah, I won't be bothering again.

 

[stevee]

I already did in umpteen posts, but you (deliberately or not, I really can't tell) choose to misunderstand the point I'm making (as you have yet again), so nah, I won't be bothering again.

Translation :

I haven't a clue what I'm talking about and have tied myself up in knots and have contradicted myself.
Therefore I'm trying to back out and save some face instead of quoting one of my previous posts.

 

[stevee]

See I just do not get or agree with all or nothing because that is not how change happens never has. I respect your opinion but I don't and never will share it. By this logic we'd still have Jim Crow and Apartheid era South Africa whilst waiting for Islamic reform.

You're missing the point.

If there was still apartheid in SA we wouldn't send a team there.
In fact the World Cup would not of been awarded to SA in the first place.

How then is it OK to award the World Cup and send a team to Qatar?

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

Translation :

I haven't a clue what I'm talking about and have tied myself up in knots and have contradicted myself.
Therefore I'm trying to back out and save some face instead of quoting one of my previous posts.

That's pretty much my view on the shite you've been spewing, to be honest. I tried to back out of a pointless debate with you early on but you were desperate to get me to engage, so I did. I wish I'd not bothered when you're so incapable of basic comprehension.

No matter how many posts I make to explain, you're never going to get it, so unless you want me to say the same thing but worded differently yet again (just so you can again miss the point), maybe just let it lie this time, yeah?

 

[stevee]

That's pretty much my view on the shite you've been spewing, to be honest. I tried to back out of a pointless debate with you early on but you were desperate to get me to engage, so I did. I wish I'd not bothered when you're so incapable of basic comprehension.

No matter how many posts I make to explain, you're never going to get it, so unless you want me to say the same thing but worded differently yet again (just so you can again miss the point), maybe just let it lie this time, yeah?

Ah mate, just admit that you're out of your depth on this one.
The only thing you've come up with is that I'm a hypocrite because I didn't mention women's rights in the same breath. If we're using that as a barometer, anyone who criticises racism, but doesn't mention gay rights, women's rights, xenophobia, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. in the same breath are also hypocrites. (Apologies for not mentioning every single minority and/or group that suffers from prejudice and inequality by name. I know that you struggle with the word "all")

You have continually tried to deflect from the issue of gay rights in Qatar. So much so that one would almost wonder why, almost but not quite.

For someone who didn't want to engage you've posted an awful lot of guff on the subject.
If only you had just hit the Disagree button on my first post instead of replying, you would have saved yourself, and others, from all this.

Anyway, you go ahead and have the last word.

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

Ah mate, just admit that you're out of your depth on this one.
The only thing you've come up with is that I'm a hypocrite because I didn't mention women's rights in the same breath.

No. No I didn't. So you have missed the point.

You called out England/The FA for being hypocrites for standing against racism, but not for also boycotting Qatar. Right? I asked you to clarify this, asking if you felt that unless they were 'all or nothing', being vocal in support of the fight against just about every other cause, then it wasn't right for them to be so prominent in their fight against racism. You confirmed that this is how you felt.

I then called you out for not holding yourself to the same standard.

I think it's a fucking ludicrous stance, because it's impossible to fight every single cause. Fight each fight as best you can, but don't expect to be able to fight everything at once.

If the cause the team feel most strongly about now is anti racism, then protest in support of this by taking the knee, or whatever else they feel is right to do to get that message across. They've got the world talking about it, so they've done really fucking well with that.

Perhaps when we get closer to the Qatar World Cup they'll also find a way to protest against that country's wrong doings? They're certainly a very socially conscious bunch, so I wouldn't put it past them, but who knows?

You're calling them out for not boycott something that they might not even qualify for yet. Doing that now would be just as ludicrous as Boris retracting his invite to the England team to visit 10 Downing Street after it'd already been rejected by the players anyway. A hollow gesture because they had no intention on taking him up on the offer. A boycott of a tournament we might not even get to would be just as hollow. Qualify, then make the gesture and it means much more. If they choose to at all. They've already done way more than any other team I can remember.


Now I don't give a fuck who has the last word, as long as mine aren't misrepresented as an argument different to the one I'm actually making. If you want to come back to say the same thing yet again, that's up to you, but please try to understand the point for at least a little while before you do this time.

Thanks.

 

[stevee]

then it wasn't right for them to be so prominent in their fight against racism. You confirmed that this is how you felt.

I then called you out for not holding yourself to the same standard.

This shows your lack of comprehension, I never said it wasn't right for them to combat racism. On the contrary I applaud them for doing so.
What I said was they should fight other injustices with the same vigour and if they didn't they (the FA) were hypocrites.

A subtle difference which I don't expect you to understand, seeing as you don't understand the word "all".

But well done on having the last word.

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

This shows your lack of comprehension, I never said it wasn't right for them to combat racism. On the contrary I applaud them for doing so.
What I said was they should fight other injustices with the same vigour and if they didn't they (the FA) were hypocrites.

Yeah, I know.

FFS. You're doing literally everything you're accusing me of. This is painful.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

You're missing the point.

If there was still apartheid in SA we wouldn't send a team there.
In fact the World Cup would not of been awarded to SA in the first place.

How then is it OK to award the World Cup and send a team to Qatar?

No you are. South African under apartheid was used in a sequence to show that change dose not happen all at once. And WE DID send various teams their during that era for big old chunks of that evil regime.

 

[stevee]

No you are. South African under apartheid was used in a sequence to show that change dose not happen all at once. And WE DID send various teams their during that era for big old chunks of that evil regime.

You are correct in saying that we did send teams to SA back in the day. I remember the protests about it and indeed the protests about selling SA products in shops.

Let me put it this way:

If SA still had apartheid TODAY , do you believe that
A) They would be awarded a World Cup?
And
B) It would be acceptable for the FA to send a team there if they were awarded it?