The Final Dash - Stoke City vs. Tottenham Hotspur

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Éperons said:
So because Dempsey's goals are *not* conventional, he's not "creative"?

I get what you're saying, I think, but I don't see the point. We need goals and points. Not everyone can be Bale or Messi. And look at what came of Bale's creativity: many shots hitting the Stoke wall.

Stoke had a plan for the 11 of hearts, and they executed reasonably--I don't think he had a great match. Dempsey, otoh, did what he does well: draws fouls, trolls the opposition, and puts himself in lucky positions.
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No. Simply put that is not what I am getting at. It wasn't a conventional finish so it had an element of luck about it.

Don't try and take what I have said about 1 goal and apply it to all "Dempsey's goals". My opinion is that he isn't a creative player, you have pretty much admitted in the last sentence of your reply.

Bale taking shots is not what he brings creatively, his creativity comes from charging at defences and beating players.
 
Pairsy1882 said:
I think the issue here is of our differing definitions of a "creative" player.

For me creative is someone like Modric, Moutinho, Eriksen, who dictates play in the middle of midfield and picks out killer passes, not necessarily racking up assists but providing the necessary link up play to get the ball in the right area for other players to provide assists or at times picking the decisive pass themself. As far as I remember Modric never actually racked up a huge number of assists but nobody would dispute the creative nature of his play. Stats don't always tell the truth.

There are also certain strikers that I would class as strikers and these are usually the kind of striker who likes to come deep and pick the ball up off the midfield or come wide to provide an option and then looking to create. Ade is a good example when he is playing well.

There are also players that I would deem creative purely based on their footballing ability, see Messi, Ronaldo, Bale etc.
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Modric, Moutinho, Erkisen, Messi, Ronaldo, and Bale are certainly more creative on their day then Dempsey, but that is an unfair comparison. With the possible exception of Moutinho and Eriksen, these players are world class unreal players. Dempsey is what he is...he works his ass off, scores goals (in important moments) and makes chances for others. Is it pretty? No...but who gives a shit? 2-1 vs stoke based on Dempsey scoring and assisting...I'll take it every day and twice on Sunday.
 
Pairsy1882 said:
The whole point of a Spurs forum (aside from talking to like minded people) is to debate, discuss and at times disagree on certain aspects of Tottenham's play, players, transfer policy etc.

How boring would talking about football be if we all agreed. It is all about opinions.


I enjoy Tottenham's success as much as anyone else that doesn't mean I won't come and voice my opinion on here.
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I do agree with that. Everyone is entitled to a POV and the very point of a forum is to discuss its merits

In the end, it's all about THFC acheiving the result needed
 
Each to their own. I love reading this forum for a decent debate thats why i am here. But all that smart ass shit after a crucial win. I'll enjoy our win today and leave you guys to catch thrills from debating creativity, just please try and limit it to a few pages please.
Thank you
 
JMo said:
Modric, Moutinho, Erkisen, Messi, Ronaldo, and Bale are certainly more creative on their day then Dempsey, but that is an unfair comparison. With the possible exception of Moutinho and Eriksen, these players are world class unreal players. Dempsey is what he is...he works his ass off, scores goals (in important moments) and makes chances for others. Is it pretty? No...but who gives a shit? 2-1 vs stoke based on Dempsey scoring and assisting...I'll take it every day and twice on Sunday.
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Yet again you totally miss the point.

You are trying to say that I don't appreciate what Dempsey does. That simply isn't true, he works his arse off and is a pain in the arse to play against. He gets important goals and I fully recognise that.

I wasn't comparing Dempsey to those players in terms of his ability I was comparing him based on his playing style. Shaun Maloney is a creative player with a similar style to Modric et al with arguably a similar ability to Dempsey. So that is the point voided.
 
Pairsy1882 said:
Yet again you totally miss the point.

You are trying to say that I don't appreciate what Dempsey does. That simply isn't true, he works his arse off and is a pain in the arse to play against. He gets important goals and I fully recognise that.

I wasn't comparing Dempsey to those players in terms of his ability I was comparing him based on his playing style. Shaun Maloney is a creative player with a similar style to Modric et al with arguably a similar ability to Dempsey. So that is the point voided.
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Then why did you bring those players up? You did not mention Maloney earlier, and, quite frankly its no issue. It seems we both appreciate what Dempsey brings to the table, so the point is moot.
 
JMo said:
Then why did you bring those players up? You did not mention Maloney earlier, and, quite frankly its no issue. It seems we both appreciate what Dempsey brings to the table, so the point is moot.
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Did you even read what I just said, I brought them up because of their style of play/what type of player they are, they are creative players.

I realise I didn't mention Maloney earlier, I included him in that post to placate your inner moron.

The point isn't moot at all. We weren't discussing his effectiveness or what he "brings to the table" we were debating whether not he is a creative player.
 
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Pairsy1882 said:
Did you even read what I just said, I brought them up because of their style of play/what type of player they are, they are creative players.

I realise I didn't mention Maloney earlier, I included him in that post to placate your inner moron.

The point isn't moot at all. We weren't discussing his effectiveness or what he "brings to the table" we were debating whether not he is a creative player.
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Yep, I get that you brought up some of the most talented players in the world and dempsey is not really among them. Their style of play/what type of player they are is exceptional. I appreciate your placation of my inner moron, I will most certainly sleep better tonight.
 
Don't know where to put this but... Spurs at home on the final day of the season, Woolwich, potentially one point ahead, away to a team without their first or second choice keeper...

Anyone getting deja vu?
:avbshit:
 
JMo said:
Yep, I get that you brought up some of the most talented players in the world and dempsey is not really among them. Their style of play/what type of player they are is exceptional. I appreciate your placation of my inner moron, I will most certainly sleep better tonight.
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And yet you still miss the point. Well done. :dempsey:
 
boxbat said:
Don't know where to put this but... Spurs at home on the final day of the season, Woolwich, potentially one point ahead, away to a team without their first or second choice keeper...

Anyone getting deja vu?
:avbshit:
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Arse may get 4, but Newcastle will probably get 4 too
 
boxbat said:
Don't know where to put this but... Spurs at home on the final day of the season, Woolwich, potentially one point ahead, away to a team without their first or second choice keeper...

Anyone getting deja vu?
:avbshit:
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None of that, k?
We don't have any fondness for Di Canio - We did have for Jol
Harper was good - Fulop never was
Alan Pardew hasn't got the England job - Hodgeson had
Newcastle are fighting relegation - West Brom weren't
The Newcastle players can understand what Wenger is saying - the West Brom players can't
St James' Park is normally a harder place to go than the Hawthorns
 
Pairsy1882 said:
And yet you still miss the point. Well done. :dempsey:
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And yet you fail to understand, I agree he is not as creative as the players you have mentioned. He is what he is. It seems we are saying similar things...perhaps I am wrong, but I'd prefer to leave it at this point.
 
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