Tottenham Hotspur vs Chelsea. 4.30 Sunday 19th September. EPL

[Airfixx]

Far as I am concerned that is all on Kane

You just said it was all on "Us".... "Us" being Spurs, no?

(Which is why I gave the response I did.)

It isn't Neville's job to worry about whether he is disrupting or making things difficult for Spurs

I didn't suggest he wasn't doing his job or should feel guilty, but it's quite clear from that fan pannel during the summer that he was adopting a stance of double standards (compared to say Pogba/United) when considering the role and disruption that interview caused to our run-in.

At the end of the day we reached a point where "One of our own " couldn't be more desperate to get out of the club if he tried.

He could have been more desperate... He could and perhaps SHOULD have handed in a transfer request.

That was all our own doing.

You've shifted back to the "ALL our own fault" narrative....

- The suggestion that City hadn't tapped him up is pure denial....
- The fact that HK is not fit and missed pre-season is on HIM as is his participation in and the timing of the interview.

That falls on the owners whether you like it or not , they have mismanaged this club for years and this is where you end up at

Our current mess has nothing to do with two bit pundits

You've come full circle.... And thus so will I.

I hear your hatred of our ownership talking.....

There's THREE contributory parties in this summer's shit-fest:

Us
City
Kane (Neville interview falls under this umbrella).

 

[1882]

Yes it was down to luck, if we spent £1bn on players hoping to reach the top then at the top collapsed into debt like Leeds you wouldn’t call it prudent.

Abramovich was originally going to buy us not Chelsea before deciding he didn’t like the area and Chelsea would have gone into receivership and we would have been minted. That’s fate, Leeds did the same as Chelsea, one collapse, one got a lucky buy out.

I don't think it was the area that was the issue. More that they were already a CL club and had that guaranteed CL income stream plus a stronger base of players to build from. The year he bought the chavs we finished 10th so it would have needed a much larger investment in players to turn that around.

The 'area' was clearly TOO JEWISH for him....
He much preferred to invest his hard earned cash in a club whose fan base is full of Nazis and Racists....

If he can't see (or chooses to ignore) that, then it says more about HIM than it does about us!

I haven't been to a Spursv Chelsea game YET that didn't involve 'hissing' and Zeig Heils from their 'supporters' ....how must that make RA or even David Baddeil feel (or Andy Jacobs, if we're going there?)
They couldn't give a Rabbis foreskin if it means they get to celebrate a trophy every year.... and THAT'S where it gets difficult and messy!

Anti Senitism holds no sway when trophies are involved!
Chelsea's fan base have ALWAYS been abhorrent , Nazi cunts.... yet they get to celebrate winning the CL twice, and numerous League titles!

Don't tell me God favours the Jewish people.... he fucking HATES Jews!

God is fucking Hitler!!! He BLEEDS ROYAL BLUE! He must've LOVED yesterday... especially as he's had Soppy old Russian Jew Roman Abramovitch doing all his dirty work for him these past 15 years!!!

 

[iz futbal]

"Ah but it was Chelsea and they're a better team than us"

So we don't need to try against Leicester, Man Ure, Liverpool then?

We'd better give City their 3 points back too.

No it means we can try but we will most likely fail against the top teams. We have a 7th best squad and we will end up somewhere near it.

 

[Skooch]

Way I see it we lose to wolves in cup and gooners sunday nuno is in trouble.

And rightly so. The Goons are a bigger loonball case than us, and that must be hell for them.

Fuck them all

 

[halothagod]

Just look flat and no energy. Im convinced we have a talented squad but no desire and energy.

I thought training has improved under Nuno??

 

[Zoidberg]

I thought training has improved under Nuno??

I think Jose left the bar pretty low.

Dele jogging along for a pack of fags would probably be an improvement.

 

[Igula]

The Reguilon missed cross and the Son shot that Kepa blocked (he was onside if you freeze frame it). And we were better than Chelsea the first half even if it was more even the last 15 minutes.

I didn't think Son had much of a chance on that play, and it looked offside on many replays but I didn't freeze it.

The Reguilon chance was decent although I think Chelsea had a few equally good chances if we are counting that one.

I don't think we were better than Chelsea at all, I think us being not so bad as we have been skews what really happened in that first half.

 

[Airfixx]

I thought training has improved under Nuno??

Suggestions are it has...... We looked energetic in the first half(*).... It's wrong to suggest otherwise..... Even the second half looked more like mental fragility to me.

(*We did for the bulk of the City game too.)

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I admire your optimism but we got spanked 3-0 at home in a London derby. I don't care how good Chelsea are that's simply unacceptable. We've given them more of a game in the past when the disparity between the sides has been much more pronounced.

Just comes across as spin.

Why are you aiming your comments at me? I didn't write the article, the bloke that did is one of the most respected analytics writers in the game, call him out as spin, it's his piece, not mine.

 

[Dilly]

Yes it was down to luck, if we spent £1bn on players hoping to reach the top then at the top collapsed into debt like Leeds you wouldn’t call it prudent.

Abramovich was originally going to buy us not Chelsea before deciding he didn’t like the area and Chelsea would have gone into receivership and we would have been minted. That’s fate, Leeds did the same as Chelsea, one collapse, one got a lucky buy out.

Again, you are completely ignoring the fact that the club knew exactly what they doing by going 100 million into debt and why they were doing it.
Again, there was no plan at Leeds other than a short-term chucking money at CL football.
Chelsea would probably have gone out of business if they had not rebuilt the ground, brought in quality players and got the crowds flocking back to the bridge.

Also, pre RA, they not only won trophies and were third when he took over, they also got to the CL QF and only going out by one goal to Barca after having a man sent off.
Also finished 4 points off top under Vialli with two draws against champs Utd. One goal in each and Chelsea would have been champs

Finally. The billion pounds is a bit disingenuous. Chelsea have made a ton of money on transfers. The net spend over the entire RA era is only 400 million. In the last 7 years the club is nowhere the net spend of City or Utd.
Net spend per trophies won, Chelsea come out on top of value for money spending.

 

[Bazali]

Why are you aiming your comments at me? I didn't write the article, the bloke that did is one of the most respected analytics writers in the game, call him out as spin, it's his piece, not mine.

You chose to post it

TLDR

 

[Thoughtful]

They were buying success when they took over us, difference was pre Russian they were about to go bust because of it.

If you look at the numbers the net spend of Spurs and Chelsea from the introduction of the PL to the time Abromavich turned up is not that much difference it’s within about £8 -£10 million

Bates got into trouble because the Bonds taken out were maturing and also following Matthew Harding’s death his widow was calling in the loan.

Chelsea's debt to RA is reported as being anywhere between 1.2 and 1.7 billion.

Thems the headline figures but it’s far more complex than that. In effect he owes himself between £1.2 and £1.7billion

RA has invested around that sum into Chelsea’s holding company. That sum includes the money he paid to buy out Bates and other shareholders, the sum to clear their debts and of course huge investment in their squad

RA owns 100% of Chelsea valued around £2 billion and that has cost him at most £1.7 billion. In effect it’s a soft loan and I believe remains on the books because it’s potentially tax efficient

 

[skywalker68]

If you look at the numbers the net spend of Spurs and Chelsea from the introduction of the PL to the time Abromavich turned up is not that much difference it’s within about £8 -£10 million

Bates got into trouble because the Bonds taken out were maturing and also following Matthew Harding’s death his widow was calling in the loan.



Thems the headline figures but it’s far more complex than that. In effect he owes himself between £1.2 and £1.7billion

RA has invested around that sum into Chelsea’s holding company. That sum includes the money he paid to buy out Bates and other shareholders, the sum to clear their debts and of course huge investment in their squad

RA owns 100% of Chelsea valued around £2 billion and that has cost him at most £1.7 billion. In effect it’s a soft loan and I believe remains on the books because it’s potentially tax efficient

Even if Roman decides to sell which he won't for a long time it should not be too much of an issue for the new potential owners.
If rumours that ENIC want around 2 billion for a club like ours which is smaller and far less successful than Chelsea it will be no problem for anyone buying them.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

He's way out of his depth.

:nunoteeth:

 

[Mick Cooper]

How much have we won since 91?

That was 30 years ago. I reckon at least 1/4 of the fans in our stadium yesterday weren't born when we won the FA Cup.

Between us winning the 91 FA Cup and Abramavic buying them, they won it in 97 and 2000, they won the league cup in 98, Uefa Cup Winners Cup winners 98, Uefa Super Cup 98,

Tell me with a straight face they weren't already well ahead of us?

Still not convinced?

Between 96/97 and the 2003/04 season they finished 6th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 6th, 4th, 2nd for an average of "4.5th"
In that same period. we finished 13th, 11th, 11th, 15th, 13th, 14th, 14th, 13th for an average league position of 13th

Have you also forgotten that prior to the Jol team of 2006, we hadn't beaten them in a single league game for SIXTEEN years (32 league matches)

Like it or not, they were already comfortably better than us when Abramovic bought them.

In 1993 Harding and Bates took over Chelsea and started spending money like water, developing the ground, Chelsea Village etc. They also started buy elite players and sinking millions into the team to achieve success. What they got for their outlay were the cups you listed, not the league or the European cup. When Harding died it all started to fall apart as they had been spending money they didn't have in the hope it won them the big prize.
What happened in that period is a smaller version of what happened when Abramovich arrived. Chelsea were on the verge of being wound up, because they were in so much debt and couldn't pay it off without them selling their site to developers, meaning they would have to ground share, sell off their player assets and try to rebuild - a glorious moment for all Spurs fans - and then the Russian fairy godmother rocked up (and spoiled everything!)

Basically, Chelsea have been buying success from 93 with money they didn't earn, financially or in terms of on field success.

That's not to say that their football teams haven't deserved to win their games and their trophies - it's just that had the club gone about their business in the same way as every other club has had to (excluding the other frauds in Manchester), they would be another West Ham -either that or be extinct or hacking around in the southern league

 

[Deuterz]

Mourinho help bring that weak mentality about by breaking the squad. We never had this kind of weak mentality under Poch their was always a belief we could win. Look at the Ajax game. The fact is the belief was built up with years of Poch as manager. The fact is our squad has been broken since losing the champions league final.

Yeah, we need a total refresh. Squad rebuild from the ground up under a younger manager who is willing to give it time ala Poch.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

Mourinho help bring that weak mentality about by breaking the squad. We never had this kind of weak mentality under Poch their was always a belief we could win. Look at the Ajax game. The fact is the belief was built up with years of Poch as manager. The fact is our squad has been broken since losing the champions league final.

Spurs have had a weak mentality for years. Even under Poch. But under Poch it tended to boil over into us playing very rough rather than just collapsing. The battle of the bridge being the prime example.

Ajax is our greatest overcoming of it. But Spurs collapsing in on itself when things don't go our way did not start with Jose. His ultra defensive tactics only exposed it more.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

The other thing that changed in the second half was we stopped pressing them high up the pitch.

When Silva was under a bit of pressure in the first half they didn't play out all that effectively. Second half he had an armchair ride and was spraying passes about with all the time in the world.

Harry and Tanguy slowing down probably play a part in that. It is hard to press from the front when two of the players expected to do it don't keep up with the pace. You can cover for one. But not too, the space for the opponent to work in becomes much too big.

 

[Airfixx]

Yeah, we need a total refresh. Squad rebuild from the ground up under a younger manager who is willing to give it time ala Poch.

Nuno is as young (or younger) than all the oft mentioned names:

Potter: 46
Nuno: 47
T.Frank: 47
Rodgers: 48
Tuchel: 48
Pep: 50
Ten Haag: 51
Conte: 52
Klopp: 54


.....I'm also pretty damn sure Nuno is more than happy to 'give it time'.

It's inevitably the fans/owners that run out of patience whatever the club/manger.

 

[Deuterz]

Nuno is as young (or younger) than all the oft mentioned names:

Potter: 46
Nuno: 47
Frank: 47
Rodgers: 48
Ten Haag: 51
Tuchel: 48
Pep: 50
Klopp: 54


.....I'm also pretty damn sure Nuno is more than happy to 'give it time'.

It's inevitably the fans/owners that run out of patience whatever the club/manger.

Nuno ticks some boxes, but not others for me. If other people rate him/think he's up to the job then that's fine, personally I find his style of play utterly depressing, and if Wolves fans got sick of it, so will we.