Which players need to go?

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I honestly just feel like we need to completely rebuild. Maybe I'm throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but I just can't help but think that this is not a matter of just changing out 2-3 players and we'll be back on the right path. This would need to be a wholesale change at this point.

The only two that I would MAYBE limit that to would be Kane and Son, just based upon sheer talent and heart they bring to the side. I could maybe make a case, maybe not convincing enough one for most people, that we just cut our losses and use them to rebuild.

I just feel like the team that we have come to love and appreciate so much is over. It's like owning a car that you have loved, but the repairs are so extensive that you may just need to cash it in and get something new.
 
Haggar said:
Sadly, I think Kane’s head has been turned given his recent performances. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he left.
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Yes, I too wish he'd stop playing with resistance bands and exercise mats and start scoring again! It's just unacceptable from our alleged talisman and co-captain.








Elsewhere and not being sarcastic, he put in some brilliant performances in several of the early games under Jose. He was earning the team crucial points right up until he got injured (he literally injured himself scoring what should have been an equaliser).

I'd urge anyone who thinks Kane is physically or technically finished to go back and watch something like the Wolves game from earlier in the season. He didn't even score in that one but he was just bossing everything all over the pitch, exactly like he used to, to eke out some kind of result for the team.

Those early Jose games convinced me that there's a psychological aspect to Kane's decline in mobility and stamina. Even though I still believe he's consciously trying his best, a lot of motivation is subconscious. It's intresting to compare and contrast how free and happy he looked playing for England throughout 2019 versus Spurs at times, despite controlling for the difference in quality of opposition. I don't claim to know what the problem is, if it even still exists, but I believe the right manager, which may or may not be Jose, could get him playing consistently at or near his peak again (so long as this latest injury isn't a killer). The signs were there less than half a season ago.
 
ILSpur said:
I honestly just feel like we need to completely rebuild. Maybe I'm throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but I just can't help but think that this is not a matter of just changing out 2-3 players and we'll be back on the right path. This would need to be a wholesale change at this point.

The only two that I would MAYBE limit that to would be Kane and Son, just based upon sheer talent and heart they bring to the side. I could maybe make a case, maybe not convincing enough one for most people, that we just cut our losses and use them to rebuild.

I just feel like the team that we have come to love and appreciate so much is over. It's like owning a car that you have loved, but the repairs are so extensive that you may just need to cash it in and get something new.
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I sympathise with this, even as a fanboy who reflexively opposes talk of selling Kane.

The argument you're talking about isn't even that difficult to make: if you accept the premise that Spurs need a ground-up rebuild that's going to mire the club in mid-table mediocrity for several seasons to come, keeping Kane and Son would be (a) pointless because those two alone won't get you top 4 or even 6 with journeymen in every other position, (b) creating a top-heavy distribution of funds and assets that could be leveraged to bring up the average level of the whole XI, and (c) selfish because both of those players deserve to win something substantive, not languish in obscurity for the rest of their careers.

But it all depends on whether you accept that core premise wrt how difficult and/or necessary the rebuild job really is. If Spurs can be back among the big boys next season with a handful of players that can be bought this summer, it would be ludicrous to sell Kane or Son (you'd just have two more vacancies that you could only fill with inferior replacements because the club doesn't have the clout to acquire players as good as Kane or as good as Son has become on the open market). I feel like most of us here agree that it's not a one-summer job though.
 
1966 said:
But it all depends on whether you accept that core premise wrt how difficult and/or necessary the rebuild job really is...
... I feel like most of us here agree that it's not a one-summer job though.
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That's exactly why I think that it's a viable idea. It would kill me to see Kane go especially, and Son is just so obviously important to us.

Kane won't win anything with us for years at this rate, and the likelihood that bringing in the right 2-3 players and obtaining success next year is very low. I'd rather offload 10 others and build around them, but I don't know if Kane and Son would want to deal with a complete rebuild, and I wouldn't really blame them.

Do we offload the dead weight and then sell one or both to fund a number of new players? It didn't work out really well with Bale, but maybe we have better scouting at this point?

We are not a well-built machine at this point that just needs tweaking at this points. We're in the realm of almost complete overhaul. This will take two years at best.
 
1966 said:
What did I just read? The only thing Kane lacks is pace and you can compensate for that by pairing him with a pacy forward that can run beyond him like, um, say, I don't know, Son? We've already seen Kane's ability to pick a great forward pass and then make an intelligent run to drag defenders out of space for a teammate a few times now so I think it could work.

In less sarcastic news, I would've thought it would be clear by now that Son alone is not going to replace the goalscoring output you get with Kane (at least not consistently enough). Nobody else in the squad has Kane's clockwork ability to put away chances.

If Kane had pace, he'd literally be the ultimate all-purpose forward. To get a bit FIFA on y'all asses for a moment, pace is the only attribute of his that isn't at least a solid 7.5 or 8/10. He holds up the play well enough to be a top-notch target man; he has the passing and vision to be a strong 10; he is also the consummate loose or second-ball poaching out-and-out striker.

Son lacks Kane's strength, hold-up, height/ability to knock down second balls from aerials, passing technique, predatory vision/instinct/positioning, and clinical finishing (yes, he's just as good some of the time and then he has those odd spells where he can't hit the proverbial barn door). I'm not saying Son's bad in any of those areas, but Kane is just some degree better (to an extent dependent on the trait). And you don't necessarily need to replace all of those attributes that you would lose with Kane - you can change your play style to minimise the importance of, for example, height and aerial ability by playing along the ground - but Son isn't going to cover everything you're losing in just one player.

Your strategy is impractical, IMO, unless it involves buying someone else to do what Kane could do already, only there's no way that player is going to be as good as Kane, which makes the whole thing an exercise in futility.
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Really? Lets take a look and see how Son and team has performed when Kane has been out.

Since the Start of 2018/2019 Season (From: Aug 2018 Onwards)
*Includes ALL Matches/Competitions with Kane out due to injury AND Sonny starting the game/not getting a red card*

Champions League
Dortmund (Round of 16) - Win/Advance - GOAL
Man City (Quarter Finals) - Win/Advance - GOAL x3
Ajax (Semi Finals) - Win/Advance
*4 GOALS IN 4 APPS

EPL
9 Wins
3 Losses
1 Draw
*8 GOALS IN 13 APPS

FA Cup
Middlesbrough - Win/Advance
Southampton - Win/Advance - GOAL x2
*2 GOALS IN 4 APPS

SONNY'S TOTALS = 21 APPS / 14 GOALS (13 FROM OPEN PLAY)
 
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1966 said:
keeping Kane and Son would be (a) pointless because those two alone won't get you top 4 or even 6 with journeymen in every other position,
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But isn’t that effectively how we’ve lined up the last 2 years and still qualified for CL? I’m not convinced we should sell both, but it feels like we’ll have to part with one of them to fund the rebuild.
 
Levy. Reckon we could get a good price for him. Still has a decent reputation as a businessman despite being fucking shit with all footballing trading since he got lucky with RvdV. Arabs and Chinese will love him. Shiny stadiums and Lady Gaga. Everton would be perfect. Bye!
 
sammyspurs said:
Some that drop from the first team are still good squad options. Those I’ve bolded
First Team:
LLoris
Davies
Aurier
Toby
Dele
Winks


Those who should leave from the periphery:
Jan, Vorm, Lamela

So basically LLoris, Aurier, Dele and Jan to leave while Davies, Aurier, Toby and Winks become solid squad cover

That’s seven of Jose’s first team when fit.

Ndombele gets a full season of fitness, or bust

Sorry about Lamela but his fighting spirit just can’t carry him anymore
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Which Aurier stays and which goes though?
 
I believe any of the mentioned players would gain some confidence anywhere else.

There were only 3 players attacking at all times due to the counter attack approach against a team that don't necessary attack like Liverpool

We were that bad and toothless, tactics are tactics where players were told to be mindful about, lacking freedom to do what they like. It's a pity we didn't lose 5 0 to give the mourinho out a bigger push

I'm waiting to hear what lucas and Tony has to say about mourinho. Only time I'm seeing spurs happy is through theirs spurs tv infraction among themselves
 
Lloris - Love the guy but needs to be moved on for the sake of the team. Having flashbacks of holding my breath reminiscent of Gomes. Would like to see Onana take his place.

Gaz - Maybe a loan spell? I feel as if he's in this awkward place right now, would be a good Championship keeper, not good enough of for the Premier League. Sort of like West Brom

Aurier - fucking liability

Jan - love him, doesn't have what we need for the first team. Even if he does stay move him graciously in to a coaching role.

Toby - would take if the money was right, dunno why but something tells me Foyth/Sanchez and or Tanganga has decent potential with consistency.

Sess - loan spell

Lamela - I think Gio is just a better version, can provide the same bull dog attitude

Lucas - if the money was right.

Vorm - forget he's still around.

Dele - if the offer is good enough, sad to say I feel like he's starting to plateau, be it just him as a player or with us.

Rose - feel like he's almost been an extended Eriksen saga. Admire him for what he has done for mental illness in football, but should've gone shortly after his "Well i should get paid more" moment. someone thinks that they are above the club is not a player I want around. Can feel him sulking even now up north.

KWP - I wish I could say another loan but I don't think he's cut out for what we need. Same as CCV
 
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