"Yid" chanting...

[Kris]

There'll never be a right answer for this, because some black people use the N word, it doesn't mean that all black people are ok with it. Likewise, because some Jews are fine with using the Y word, doesn't mean that all Jews are fine with the word.

It's a call to arms but this thread and other discussions have made me question chanting it. However, I know for a fact, on Saturday, someone in the pub will start the chant and I'll be screaming it too.

Nail on the head

 

[S.L.R]

I'm a bit confused re the ethnicity that constitutes Jewishness.

What follows is what I think I know. I'll keep it brief(ish) but I've got a real interest in the subject so would appreciate anyone who knows more about it than me, telling me if this is all bollocks.

OK, the root of Judaism is Hebraic and before Rome sacked Jerusalem, most likely the vast majority of people considered to be Jews were Hebrews. But since the Jews were expelled from Israel, and dispersed among Europe, you had two main groupings, the western and the eastern. The western became the Sephardic, and those in the east spent hundreds of years mixing with Turkic, Slavic, and Eurasian peoples, gradually becoming more and more detached from the Hebrew root of Judaism. Not just genetically mixing with other ethnicities, but forgetting the old culture, language, dietary laws, etc.

In Muslim Spain, the Sephardic Jews had more freedom to move around the core centres of Judaism in the Middle East - which they wouldn't have been able to do easily if living under Catholic rule which forced Jews to convert. So the western Jews retained the Hebraic root more prominently.

Then much later on, when the Latinised Jews moved from where they had been settling in Germany further to the east, to the slavic territory (the migration fuelled, at least in part - and inevitably - by anti-Semitic hatred), then they gradually mixed with (and taught) the Jews they met in the east, trying to get them back in touch with their Hebrew roots. The mixing of languages, mainly German and Hebrew but with Slavic influences etc, gradually formed the language Yiddish.

Over all that time you've got Gentiles converting to Judaism and mixing into the pot too.

So it must be conceivable that a lot of Jews aren't that strongly Hebraic at all - as there are so many possibilities in terms of lineage for them. They could come from a Greek line that converted to the religion 1500 years ago or whatever.

If you bothered to read that, cheers.

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

It's a small sample, but a quarter of people who have voted in the poll so far find it offensive. Of the others who knows how many Gentiles have voted.

That 25% is significant, especially given that many of those who have posted in this thread did not know of the word's origins so did not know how people find it offensive.

Thelonius, your point only talks about black people. We are talking about non-Jews using Yid in the same way that a white person has no right to use n*****.

 

[Thelonious]

It's a small sample, but a quarter of people who have voted in the poll so far find it offensive. Of the others who knows how many Gentiles have voted.

That 25% is significant, especially given that many of those who have posted in this thread did not know of the word's origins so did not know how people find it offensive.

Thelonius, your point only talks about black people. We are talking about non-Jews using Yid in the same way that a white person has no right to use n*****.

I can only speak from a black POV because I'm black, I don't think it's my place to say whether or not a Jew should be offended by the Y word.

This thread (and a few others) are great for bringing this out into the open and giving us non-Jews more of an understanding of the word.

The N word is steeped in hatred, it's not a shortening or slang for Negro btw.

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

It's a small sample, but a quarter of people who have voted in the poll so far find it offensive. Of the others who knows how many Gentiles have voted.

That 25% is significant, especially given that many of those who have posted in this thread did not know of the word's origins so did not know how people find it offensive.

Thelonius, your point only talks about black people. We are talking about non-Jews using Yid in the same way that a white person has no right to use n*****.

I can only speak from a black POV because I'm black, I don't think it's my place to say whether or not a Jew should be offended by the Y word.

This thread (and a few others) are great for bringing this out into the open and giving us non-Jews more of an understanding of the word.

The N word is steeped in hatred, it's not a shortening or slang for Negro btw.

Yes, but you would presumably think it odd if a white person called himself a n*****.

 

[ZoC]

ZoC, you made some great points in the original thread. How about a précis?

i think most of wot i said then has been covered here, by u and others, just as eloquently. however, i did make an illustrative point which might be worth repeating...

 

[Blanchflower]

If you bothered to read that, cheers.

:cliveallen:

 

[Thelonious]

Yes, but you would presumably think it odd if a white person called himself a n*****.

They'd get stabbed. not really

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

Yes, but you would presumably think it odd if a white person called himself a n*****.

They'd get stabbed. not really

I appreciate the irony, but I bet that's how you'd feel inside.

 

[ZoC]

The N word is steeped in hatred, it's not a shortening or slang for Negro btw.

where does it come from then, then o thelo?

i always thought it was from "negro", the spanish/portuguese word for black... which came from "niger", the latin word for black.

 

[Thelonious]

Yes, but you would presumably think it odd if a white person called himself a n*****.

They'd get stabbed. not really

I appreciate the irony, but I bet that's how you'd feel inside.

That's between me and my therapist. :bae:

 

[Thelonious]

The N word is steeped in hatred, it's not a shortening or slang for Negro btw.

where does it come from then, then o thelo?

i always thought it was from "negro", the spanish/portuguese word for black... which came "niger", the latin word for black.

I'll be honest and say I was unaware of the latin word for it. What I do know, is during slavery it was coined to belittle black people and it's steeped in hatred from that point of view. If Spurs fans were being slated for having a huge black fanbase, and the N word became our call to arms, I'd know no different so it's hard to say what my reaction would be. However, it seems preposterous to even consider that happening (I'm aware of the irony of this).

Fuck is fornication under consent of the king iirc, I wouldn't say it in front of my parents because swearing offends them regardless of the origins.

 

[Blanchflower]

I appreciate the irony, but I bet that's how you'd feel inside.

That's between me and my therapist. :bae:

???

 

[Thelonious]

I knew as I posted that someone would post a picture of one, I'd rather you posted John Leslie or Alan Pardew as opposed to that cunt tbph.

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

That's between me and my therapist. :bae:

Benny's your therapist?

 

[Thelonious]

That's between me and my therapist. :bae:

Benny's your therapist?

Yes but he doesn't know it. I always ask myself, "what would Benny do?"

 

[tehTrunk]

Here's a counter-question:

What would a group of shaven headed men swilling lager and chanting about 'anything' to anyone look like?

You don't need the word Yid for it to be offensive. Ask Charlton youth fans.

As for "rules" of what are or aren't racist or offensive words, I'd actually prefer if there weren't any and I endorse free speech. I don't think imposing laws over thoughts and words achieves anything. You can be sent to jail for trolling on Twitter and yet let off for physically assaulting someone based on their race just because more people complained and were offended by the former and the courts wanna make an example of how they aren't racist.

I don't need John Terry's FC to give me a lesson on morality with a short one-sided video. They are all distraction pieces anyway.

Everyone has a right to free speech of course, but that's not the issue.

I reserve my right to call someone a 'n*gger' should I choose to, but then I respect the right of that individual to not have to face such abuse thus don't use it.

Having the right to use a word, and using a word are two very different things my friend.

With regard to the shaven headed gentlemen, looking like a lout and looking like a racist lout are again two very different things.

Why? Why is it more offensive to use the word Yid than cunt? It's subjective dependent on the perceiver, not the person saying it. A racist will use the word cunt out of racism, despite it not being a racist word. It's the intent is the problem, not the word. Can we then ban the word "hiss" when we have people hissing at us?

Or is "hiss" not a racist word?

Because calling someone a cunt is not insulting them purely based on their race?

Do you not see that by using someone's race, against them, you're therefore suggesting that there is something wrong with who they are biologically?

Unless someone has has literally been born as a giant vagina, then I don't see how calling someone a cunt is remotely comparable.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

That's between me and my therapist. :bae:

Benny's your therapist?

Yes but he doesn't know it. I always ask myself, "what would Benny do?"

Speakerphone afro or GTFO.

Disco.......

 

[Dr. Filth]

Fascinating thread. I've been supporting Spurs for a couple of years now, and I had never heard that people hissed. That sends a chill down my spine.

 

[Blanchflower]

I knew as I posted that someone would post a picture of one, I'd rather you posted John Leslie or Alan Pardew as opposed to that cunt tbph.

A lot of people I know only refer to him as the rapist