The sliding doors of Pochettinos reign

[Juno]

In 2015/16 City and Liverpool started the season with Pellegrini and Rogers as managers. They finished in 3rd on 66 points and 8th on 60 respectively.

Next season 2016/17, Guardiola and Klopp were in situe, incremental improvements 3rd and 4th on 78 and 76 points before both really took off in 2017/18. The weakness of our rivals was a factor as well in how we performed in 2015/16 and 2016/17.

Guardiola and Klopp are on a different level to Pochettino as a manager. Serial winners and elite level managers. That’s not necessarily a slight on Pochettino who is an excellent manager in a lot of departments. The other two are different gravy though,

 

[Arjun]

He never got offered those jobs because they know he will never win anything for as long as he is a manager. He would fail to win the French league with Psg

UTD fans were crying out for him to join them. Our own fans used to cry about how much Sky Sports linked him to UTD. But yes, keep trying to convince yourself a big club wouldn't touch him.

 

[Baggio1]

UTD fans were crying out for him to join them. Our own fans used to cry about how much Sky Sports linked him to UTD. But yes, keep trying to convince yourself a big club wouldn't touch him.

Yet they never went after him and that is with him blatantly wanting the man u job, weird that isn't it. Has a big club taken him yet?

 

[sammyspurs]

Yet they never went after him and that is with him blatantly wanting the man u job, weird that isn't it. Has a big club taken him yet?

Sooner or later the failures all start to add up.

Despite some spurs fans saying he was begging for scraps, the money men at the big clubs look at the actual 400M he had spent on some 20 odd players in his five years, plus the actual fact he had one of Europe’s most potent front three in Kane, Dele and Eriksen who only cost a combined 19M.

Some use the logic that because Andy Carroll cost 35M then Poch wasn’t backed. But the hierarchy at Real see it for what it was......a manager that couldn’t see them over the line time and time again.
The CL showing rightly put in the doubts, then the following 7 months and previous 4 hammered in the final nail in the coffin.

 

[sammyspurs]

UTD fans were crying out for him to join them. Our own fans used to cry about how much Sky Sports linked him to UTD. But yes, keep trying to convince yourself a big club wouldn't touch him.

We were linked with Dybala and Cavani so Levy is off the hook right?

 

[Spursidol]

That's debatable .
We're now saddled £850 million worth of debt. Some of which will be outstanding until 2050, and interest alone at 35-40million a year until 2042.

You obviously cannot calculate interest - average interest rates on bonds were about 2.4% or something on £637m of bond financing deal so circa £15m pa.

Coronavirus facility at 0.5% on £175m so circa £800k pa.

 

[Spursidol]

Problem in a nutshell is Poch started off on his first season at Spurs with Lloris, Vorm Walker, Rose, Davies, Vertonghen, Dier, Dembele, Mason Bentaleb, Eriksen, Kane

Of later additions :
Dele - David Pleat bullied Levy into signing the unknown
Son - Player and agent unhappy that Son not allowed by German club to play at Asian games (to win it meant exemption from compulsory army call up), Spurs took the risk. Son won Asian games in 2018 as captain whilst playing well and scoring/assisting goals for Spurs. Opportunity given to Levty/Poch
Winks - One academy prospect brought through in 5-6 seasons is very poor from the manager.

The majority of teams Poch picked typically had about 7 or 8 players in who were already at Spurs or he had little to do with (eg Dele and Son).

And what that means is that of the 20 or so players signed when Poch was pleased to say he had a significant amount of control over transfers, the vast majority were not good enough to consistently make Poch's teams. Foyth, N'Jie, N'koudou, Janssen, Yedlin, Pau Lopez,, Wimmer, Llorente, or players who played who really arent ideal for Spurs such as Sissoko (and at £30m I'd have preferred to have bought all 3 or Brooks, Maddisin and Grealish for the same money at that time and developed them) or one season wonders such as Wanyama. About his only successes were Alderweireld,and Trippier with 'ok status' for the likes of Mouraand Sanchez.,

Pretty appalling statistics for buying players - total contrast to the squad inherited by Poch.

Good coach, lousy at selecting players to buy- and self indulgent by refusing to accept a DoF

 

[Mensa]

Nothing is as simple as "Oh X was to blame" It's so extreme, so 2020 when people blind to anything outside of their idea.

Let's face it, its a combination of Chairman, manager and players, all did amazing things and dropped the ball when it mattered, all of them. So instead of going on and on and on picking sides and saying "oh no THEY were to blame", accept it, they all fucked up.

The killer is this isn't 97-03 when we had general acceptance of being shit, we had a real chance, so it hurts more as we look to pin the blame on who we hate the most. Thing is as Roy Keane said "Disappointment, its in Tottenhams DNA" and he is right

 

[AussieYiddo]

This made me proper sad.

 

[ElTel]

Problem in a nutshell is Poch started off on his first season at Spurs with Lloris, Vorm Walker, Rose, Davies, Vertonghen, Dier, Dembele, Mason Bentaleb, Eriksen, Kane

Of later additions :
Dele - David Pleat bullied Levy into signing the unknown
Son - Player and agent unhappy that Son not allowed by German club to play at Asian games (to win it meant exemption from compulsory army call up), Spurs took the risk. Son won Asian games in 2018 as captain whilst playing well and scoring/assisting goals for Spurs. Opportunity given to Levty/Poch
Winks - One academy prospect brought through in 5-6 seasons is very poor from the manager.

The majority of teams Poch picked typically had about 7 or 8 players in who were already at Spurs or he had little to do with (eg Dele and Son).

And what that means is that of the 20 or so players signed when Poch was pleased to say he had a significant amount of control over transfers, the vast majority were not good enough to consistently make Poch's teams. Foyth, N'Jie, N'koudou, Janssen, Yedlin, Pau Lopez,, Wimmer, Llorente, or players who played who really arent ideal for Spurs such as Sissoko (and at £30m I'd have preferred to have bought all 3 or Brooks, Maddisin and Grealish for the same money at that time and developed them) or one season wonders such as Wanyama. About his only successes were Alderweireld,and Trippier with 'ok status' for the likes of Mouraand Sanchez.,

Pretty appalling statistics for buying players - total contrast to the squad inherited by Poch.

Good coach, lousy at selecting players to buy- and self indulgent by refusing to accept a DoF

The club spent the Bale money on Soldado, Paulinho, Capoue, Chadli, Chiriches, Eriksen and Lamela.

Only Eriksen really succeeded out of that lot. 1 out of 7. Poch inherited them. So who is really lousy at selecting players?

 

[Spursidol]

The club spent the Bale money on Soldado, Paulinho, Capoue, Chadli, Chiriches, Eriksen and Lamela.

Only Eriksen really succeeded out of that lot. 1 out of 7. Poch inherited them. So who is really lousy at selecting players?

Point I made is the squad inherited by Poch was quite good.

The reason why we are struggling right now, is that half the players Poch inherited have left or too old and retired, so only half of them left - but we have very few of the Poch era signings as most are not any good.....so right now our squad is lacking enough quality.

Poch era signings might be summed up by signing Aurier when Pereira was available for similar money. Just a poor footballing decision. .


(btw, agree Soldado flopped -even though most thought at signing he'd be a good scorer for us, Paulhino was rubbish, Capoue lazy, Chirches too flamboyant for a CB so not a great bunch of signings. However most of the players resold in aggregate we didnt lose money on.................but at the same time Lloris was a good signing, as was Walker, Rose, Vertonghen , etc so the higher % of good players came from the transfer set up pre Poch )

 

[Luvf]

The article has some organised info but grossly neglected to mention the "Harry Kane team" factor hence any arguments over the 4 pages about it seem to me like swimming in a sperm pool

 

[suburbanexile]

Poch sorted out the defence, for the first time in a long time, and in Kane he had one of the PL's best strikers.
Unfortunately the best team he built, in our last season at WHL, disintegrated - Wanyama's injury, Dembele just getting on, and players like Walker were not replaced. He had the right formation, the central defenders still had two good seasons in them, and Kane when injured could be replaced by Son. Had we stayed at WHL another season I'm confident we would have won something, if not the EPL then a cup of some sort.
But I think it was the background of instability which meant Poch could not then push on in terms of the EPL. Moving stadium, the overstay at Wembley in particular, couldn't have come at a worse time.
The reality is Spurs had their chance when Leicester won the title, and to a certain extent we blew it - if we hadn't thrown the lead vs 10 men woolwich, we would have gone top of the table and psychologically I think that Leicester would have crumbled. The players then went a bit crazy vs Chelsea but really it was the home game vs woolwich which was the wasted opportunity. That is for me the most disappointing result in my time as a Spurs fan.
I don't blame Poch, nor Levy, for all that - I just think there is something of a curse on the club, as well as an inability to play for the full 90 minutes. Spurs just have bad timing in general, which in a way is related to getting too carried away when ahead, and too easy to fold when down. Poch identified this as a psychological issue at the club which he was trying to address, perhaps Mourinho is the person to do this, it seems he has identified it as one of the main things holding Spurs back. But obviously a lot of next season will come down to whether he can retain Kane's services.

 

[Norfolkspur]

I think the noticeable thing already with Mourinho is a mentality thing. Saying to the players if we win our next two, we win the Europa league gets in their head. Ive played the europa twice and won it twice. Talking like a winner. Poch would probably say “we will try. There are no easy games...”. Jose says “we will win it.” Players know he’s won it before, so get more confident. They can then give the extra 1% that is the difference between being a winner or just echoes of glory with another semi final loss, another runners up position etc.

I loved Poch. I am gutted how it ended, but two cup final losses, multiple semi final losses, failure to win the league when we could/should have done. Success breeds success and vice versa. When Jose first joined I saw a quote by him where the journo asked if the problems at Spurs were because of losing the Cl final. He responded ‘I don’t know, Ive never lost a final.’ Winning mentality. Hopefully it bleeds through because we need to get the no trophy monkey of our backs.

 

[suburbanexile]

The thing with the winning mentality is that it only works if it has a hold on reality.
Mourinho has won things but with bumper transfer budgets except when at Porto. Maybe he will come full circle.
In some ways Mourinho manipulates public opinion like Donald Trump - he can easily say something like we will win the Europa, but if we are knocked out in the group stages, he will systematically create a new controversy to move along the media agenda.
Tactically Mourinho's style of football is to grind out results but it is the way he manipulates the media which is perhaps the most interesting thing about him. Ferguson was similar.

 

[BernardMatthews]

The reality is Spurs had their chance when Leicester won the title, and to a certain extent we blew it - if we hadn't thrown the lead vs 10 men woolwich, we would have gone top of the table and psychologically I think that Leicester would have crumbled.

This x 100. We blew it.

Early in the season we played 4 had 3 points. From a possible 12.
Threw away points at home to Stoke when cruising 2-0 up and all over them. We blew a lead at Leicester next game. 1-1. Drew at home 0-0 with Everton.

And then last day of the season didn’t turn up. So the big gap in points is Bollocks. We absolutely had a chance that season.

Losing at home to Leicester a massive letdown. That was the key. When we played them only 4 points behind them. They weren’t even top. They went 7 points ahead of us. It could have been 1 point.........

Look at that game. Not Poch‘s fault. His tactics worked. 63% possession 21 shots. We bossed it. Players again let down in their biggest match of the season.

Kane missed best chance of the match. Prior to that they had been on a downward spin.

We fucked it. Plain and simple.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Are we nearly there yet?

 

[RocketRonny]

After 2017/18 it was clear the squad needed an overhaul but we got nothing. Getting to the CL final mainly through mentality and some luck papered over the cracks, the changes the summer after were too little too late.

yet football is an overlapping sport, when you ship of a pivot you either have a replacement waiting to come or already in the squad after being groomed for a season or two. We knew Dembele was running low on petrol but had nothing to replace him with. Poch was to optimistic that what we had could perform the same.

We also had the misfortune of Dele and Eriksen both dipping in form immensely simultaneously thus affecting Kane’s product. But that could not have been foreseen

 

[MiddxSpur]

The article unravelled itself in the very first paragraph:

If you had told someone in the summer of 2016, just after Tottenham had announced themselves to the world and run Leicester close to the title, that the team would go on to win a grand total of zero major trophies under Mauricio Pochettino, few would have believed you. How could one of the most dynamic, exciting groups of players in recent Premier League history, led by a charismatic young manager, with their peaks yet to come and their entire careers in front of them, end up trophyless?


Therein lies the rub.
Not City, not Chelsea, not Utd, not Liverpool, not Woolwich.

But Leicester.

For all ENIC and Levys failing, bottling that season wasn’t one of them.
Poch and the players failed to out perform Danny Drinkwater and Robert Huth.

That’s all there is to it.

I think we had so many self inflicted sliding door moments that stopped us winning trophies.
The season Leicester won the league they beat us 0-1 at WHL. Kane so nearly scored to take the lead, then our CBs trip over each other to leave Huth free to score late on from a corner. That was a 6 point swing and would later in the season prove too big a gap to close.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

I think we had so many self inflicted sliding door moments that stopped us winning trophies.
The season Leicester won the league they beat us 0-1 at WHL. Kane so nearly scored to take the lead, then our CBs trip over each other to leave Huth free to score late on from a corner. That was a 6 point swing and would later in the season prove too big a gap to close.

That was literally the only game I missed that season.

ochhail: