/

[To Dare Is To Do.]

He had 25 games in the PL last year and another 25 this year plus Cup and European games.

Klopp's Liverpool did not finish in the top 4 in his early seasons. Sir Alex Ferguson was nearly sacked by Manchester United early on in his tenure there, but was saved by winning the FA Cup.

This modern day impulse of sacking managers quickly frustrates me.

It isn't going to make him throwing guys under the bus have better effects.

He's publicly criticised Ndombele and Alli; 2 players who have question marks over their attitude, and were not performing under Poch in the first half of 2019/20 season either.
It worked with Ndombele but let's see how Alli does.

There is a reason that everything with his apologists is if, if, but, but, maybe, maybe and remember what he did everywhere else, but don't really focus on United more the other things he did other places.

He has done well everywhere he's managed, including United. Shown flexibility by winning different leagues; with Real Madrid he broke La Liga record of scoring most goals in a season in 2011/12 (more than Guardiola ever managed with Messi Villa Xavi Iniesta)

It doesn't change that his preference for big, plodding plugs that can't play the game but are cunts is totally ineffective.

Mourinho's analytical skills and footballing strategy are not this unsophisticated.

Signs of irrational hatred.

 

[NewZealand_Spur]

Signs of irrational hatred.

 

[MemphisWill]

I've got to say that I really don't get the school of thought that the league cup means nothing, particularly as we've won fuck all in 20 years. I'm sure the players would all be very happy to win it.
There are so many little positives that go along with the cup though.
Winning the league cup would give the players a massive confidence boost and drive to go for other cups.
It also increases the profile of the club and gets us in the news a bit more which is good for PR and sponsors.
Often if clubs are lucky they'll get a relatively easy draw through the cup run that gives the club a chance to rest players and/or play some of the youngsters.
Winning it would also show potential players that we're on the up and may sway the decision to join us.

I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously when you say players would want to sign with us because we won the LC.

Liverpool won the LC in 2012...it took 2 managers and 2 squad rebuilds over 7 years before they won anything again. Outside of City, United, and Chelsea the only other clubs to have won the LC since we last did are playing in the Championship. Hardly a kingmaker.

 

[Totti]

Klopp's Liverpool did not finish in the top 4 in his early seasons. Sir Alex Ferguson was nearly sacked by Manchester United early on in his tenure there, but was saved by winning the FA Cup.

Klopp has finished top 4 in every single one of his full seasons at Liverpool.

Whilst seeing clear improvements in his teams results and style of play.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

Klopp has finished top 4 in every single one of his full seasons at Liverpool.

Whilst seeing clear improvements in his teams results and style of play.

True, but he took over in October of 2015/16 season and finished 8th.

I do think Klopp is a better manager than Jose now, but you also have to take into account the amount of money Liverpool have had to spend to reach the pinnacle. VVD, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Keita etc.

 

[Igula]

Klopp's Liverpool did not finish in the top 4 in his early seasons. Sir Alex Ferguson was nearly sacked by Manchester United early on in his tenure there, but was saved by winning the FA Cup.

This modern day impulse of sacking managers quickly frustrates me.


He's publicly criticised Ndombele and Alli; 2 players who have question marks over their attitude, and were not performing under Poch in the first half of 2019/20 season either.
It worked with Ndombele but let's see how Alli does.


He has done well everywhere he's managed, including United. Shown flexibility by winning different leagues; with Real Madrid he broke La Liga record of scoring most goals in a season in 2011/12 (more than Guardiola ever managed with Messi Villa Xavi Iniesta)


Mourinho's analytical skills and footballing strategy are not this unsophisticated.

Signs of irrational hatred.

Ferguson started with United in a very different era and with Klopp you could clearly see signs that he was building something and improving the team. He didn't get worse in his second season like Jose has this season.

That is great that 10 years ago Jose was successful, this is not 10 years ago. With us he has shown zero signs of flexibility.

His "analytical" skills and strategy are exactly that unsophisticated.

There is nothing irrational about hating the style of football he has had us playing and the levels that he has us at. If 6th place last year and 8th place currently are your expectations for the team fair enough, but based on on results in the past 10 years to me they are lower than what fans should expect.

 

[Igula]

True, but he took over in October of 2015/16 season and finished 8th.

I do think Klopp is a better manager than Jose now, but you also have to take into account the amount of money Liverpool have had to spend to reach the pinnacle. VVD, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Keita etc.

A lot of that money came from selling their top players and having a plan of what needed to be done to fix the team.

Do you think if Jose sold Kane and Son that he would use the money to reshape us similarly to how Klopp was able to reshape Liverpool?

 

[Totti]

True, but he took over in October of 2015/16 season and finished 8th.

I do think Klopp is a better manager than Jose now, but you also have to take into account the amount of money Liverpool have had to spend to reach the pinnacle. VVD, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Keita etc.

And got them to a League Cup (lost on pens) and Europa League final in said season.

Klopp's total net spend from the moment he was appointed to last summer was £75,000,000.

 

[Gobbygonk]

I think Spurs need new fans that SUPPORT the team and manager through thick & thin. Watching that last game after all the lightweight clowns on this forum was stuffed down their disloyal, ignorant, media-brainwashed minds was amazing. If you are gonna side with the media then go and support Woolwich.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

Klopp's total net spend from the moment he was appointed to last summer was £75,000,000.

This net spend is also a reflection of Liverpool being able to pull off outlandish prices for some player sales:
-Brewster 23 million
-Solanke 19 million
-Benteke 28 million
-Ibe 16 million

If we could sell 4 useless players for £86 million, then I think Jose would benefit from bringing in a couple of stars without harming net spend value.

 

[bonaspur23]

Ferguson started with United in a very different era and with Klopp you could clearly see signs that he was building something and improving the team. He didn't get worse in his second season like Jose has this season.

That is great that 10 years ago Jose was successful, this is not 10 years ago. With us he has shown zero signs of flexibility.

His "analytical" skills and strategy are exactly that unsophisticated.

There is nothing irrational about hating the style of football he has had us playing and the levels that he has us at. If 6th place last year and 8th place currently are your expectations for the team fair enough, but based on on results in the past 10 years to me they are lower than what fans should expect.

No point in arguing with him.

 

[bonaspur23]

I think Spurs need new fans that SUPPORT the team and manager through thick & thin. Watching that last game after all the lightweight clowns on this forum was stuffed down their disloyal, ignorant, media-brainwashed minds was amazing. If you are gonna side with the media then go and support Woolwich.

Why are we siding with the media? Do you think mid table combine with boring football is acceptable?

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

Do you think if Jose sold Kane and Son that he would use the money to reshape us similarly to how Klopp was able to reshape Liverpool?

No, I don't think Jose would be able to do well if we sell Son and Kane. Is it a fair comparison?

Liverpool, in the midst of making tonnes from crap players during Klopp's reign, have only sold one world class player: Coutinho.
And when Coutinho was sold, Klopp was left with a paltry attack of... Mane Firmino Salah.
If we sold Son and Kane now, out attack would be nowhere near that Liverpool front 3.

Imo Klopp is the best manager in the world, so I'm not arguing on that front.

But the very fact you'd ask such a twisted question is further proof of your blind agenda against Mourinho.

 

[Igula]

No, I don't think Jose would be able to do well if we sell Son and Kane. Is it a fair comparison?

Liverpool, in the midst of making tonnes from crap players during Klopp's reign, have only sold one world class player: Coutinho.
And when Coutinho was sold, Klopp was left with a paltry attack of... Mane Firmino Salah.
If we sold Son and Kane now, out attack would be nowhere near that Liverpool front 3.

Imo Klopp is the best manager in the world, so I'm not arguing on that front.

But the very fact you'd ask such a twisted question is further proof of your blind agenda against Mourinho.

Did they not sell Sterling as well?

What twisted question?

Klopp came in and recognized that Coutinho was an issue and that there were better off moving on from him, he also then made smart decisions on who to buy and who to target so that he could build the team that he wanted to win.

Firmino, Salah and Mane were far from world class players when they came in but they fit for what Klopp wanted to do. He didn't force them into roles that didn't fit them. he had a system that worked for the players that he had.

Jose has shown none of that. He didn't come in here and make changes to fit what he needed. He didn't adapt to anything remotely close to what suited the players.

There is no blind agenda. As I have repeatedly said I was with bringing him in, I had zero hate for him before he came here, I have no personal hate for him now. It didn't work out, he is a poor fit for the club and current team.

My "agenda" is based all on facts and what he has done. The football we have played has been awful, that is undeniable. That is not me saying it but the majority of fans, media and neutrals. To argue that is ridiculous. It is based on us finishing 6th last year which is poor, below where we have finished the past 10 years under 3 different managers. It has to do with us now outside the top 4 again, with little chance of making it back. It has to do with us going out easy in our two Cups last year and looking poor in the Cups again this year but getting by in two solely because of weak opposition. That is not an agenda that is a summary of what we have got with Jose as the manager.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

Did they not sell Sterling as well?

Nope, that was under Rodgers.

What twisted question?

"Do you think if Jose sold Kane and Son that he would use the money to reshape us similarly to how Klopp was able to reshape Liverpool?"

Klopp did a great job at developing players, while Liverpool's negotiating department ripped off quite a few clubs with player sales. But... there's nothing Liverpool did since 2015 that would be comparable to Spurs selling Son and Kane now.
Twisted comparison designed to make Jose look bad.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

He didn't come in here and make changes to fit what he needed. He didn't adapt to anything remotely close to what suited the players.

Alright, so what should he have done differently?

In my opinion 2 errors he's made with line-ups is not starting Lo Celso and Bale more in the PL.

Gio Ndombele Hojbjerg would be a midfield that would give us more control. Meanwhile, Bale is far more clinical than Lucas or Bergwijn.

One word of caution with Bale: it's easy to extrapolate based on recent performances. Perhaps this gradual increase in intensity was the best way for him to build match sharpness without suffering a serious injury after years out. Bear in mind Bale has pulled himself out of a few matches too.

 

[Igula]

Nope, that was under Rodgers.

"Do you think if Jose sold Kane and Son that he would use the money to reshape us similarly to how Klopp was able to reshape Liverpool?"

Klopp did a great job at developing players, while Liverpool's negotiating department ripped off quite a few clubs with player sales. But... there's nothing Liverpool did since 2015 that would be comparable to Spurs selling Son and Kane now.
Twisted comparison designed to make Jose look bad.

I got the Sterling timeline wrong I thought they sold him in Klopp's first season. So it is only one of their top players that he sold and that funded the big moves he made. The point is still the same. Klopp did not come in demanding big money to remake the team. He used the resources he had, made a tough decision to move on from a talented player and got the team to play well based on what he had.

If you don't like the reasons Klopp was showing progress when he came look at the previous managers before Jose. They didn't have any more talent than he has now, they didn't need huge outlays of cash to build teams and they all got better results than him. I am sure Poch could have used a Reguilon or PEH in the two years he got nobody but he still managed to have much better results playing much better football.

The Jose excuses are almost as pathetic as the football he has us playing.

 

[Igula]

Alright, so what should he have done differently?

In my opinion 2 errors he's made with line-ups is not starting Lo Celso and Bale more in the PL.

Gio Ndombele Hojbjerg would be a midfield that would give us more control. Meanwhile, Bale is far more clinical than Lucas or Bergwijn.

One word of caution with Bale: it's easy to extrapolate based on recent performances. Perhaps this gradual increase in intensity was the best way for him to build match sharpness without suffering a serious injury after years out. Bear in mind Bale has pulled himself out of a few matches too.

What he should have done is not insist on the low block negative football. He should not have insisted on the no possession, no creativity, goals as bad philosophy he loves. Our best players are all better with the ball and attacking. The best football we have played under Jose is when the shackles are off and the team is able to attack.

As for specific players, Toby should have been first choice CB all the time, that is a no doubt and not based on hindsight that was clear as day.

GLC should have played way more especially over Sissoko. I think he should have figured out what he was doing with Dele much earlier. The tough love nonsense went on way too long and we wasted time/money we could have used by moving on from him and bringing in a player who could have helped us for this season.

I know the apologists will like to pretend he had something to do with Ndombele but all he did was waste his first season with us. Some on that is certainly on Ndombele's fitness but also Jose being a stubborn ass.

Bale I am not as critical of. I think he certainly should have played more and been given more rope than Jose gave hi, but at the same time should not have been given start after start early on especially in the PL. I think even at 50% he is better than Moura but best to let him work his way into game shape/form. I think he was pulled a few times too early and should have been used as a sub more but it was more of minor thing in my view.

 

[Mick Cooper]

I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously when you say players would want to sign with us because we won the LC.

Liverpool won the LC in 2012...it took 2 managers and 2 squad rebuilds over 7 years before they won anything again. Outside of City, United, and Chelsea the only other clubs to have won the LC since we last did are playing in the Championship. Hardly a kingmaker.

Yeah, thats EXACTLY what she said.

FMOB, talk about polarising a post and beating someone up for your inelegant and shoddy understanding of the point.

 

[Fattynomates]

I know everyone thinks the current CB aren’t good enough but they aren’t helped by Lloris. When a cross comes in he steps back onto his line meaning the opponents can have a header from the penalty spot if they can outjump a defender (and our defenders aren’t great in the air). You contrast this with some other goalkeepers who will come and punch (easily getting more height than the opposing attacking player) and it is possible that a more commanding GK will suddenly make the defenders look better. Lloris is misleading as he is still excellent at stopping shots (second in PL this season at outperforming expected goals against) but his reluctance on leaving the goal line creates a number of opportunities for the opponents.

No you are wrong, i have it on good authority that Lloris is the best GK and he would be able to show it if the defenders stopped all shots on target before they got to him!