Ange Postecoglou

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It is the crux.

Even the die hard evAngelists know something is awry. The question is should Ange be the one trusted with the rebuild we badly need. This is where opinions vary. I’m not sure where I am on it really.
Everything's a gamble but one thing is certain - change managers again in the break and we're going to have yet another 'transitional' season next season wasting yet another year.

And then we still might not make the right appointment.

The thing we haven't done since Poch is stuck by a manager and see what they can do over a period of time.

All a gamble really unless what we're witnessing is just what we can now expect from Spurs.... New manager - transitional season - sack manager - Mason caretaker - New manager - transitional season - sack manager .........and on and on.
 
You're right in some respect with your appraisal of serial winning managers who failed working for us. And you are right that they would probably fail again.

The issue that keeps getting brushed under the carpet is why?

We have the money and the resources so why do you think these managers are determined to win at every other club that employs them, but lose that determination when Levy employs them?

When the answer to this us properly addressed, then maybe we finally end our never ending cycle of failure. Not by falling back on some unproven journeyman in the blind hope he can achieve some kind of long term miracle.
I think it's probably two fold.

The serial managers have already proven themselves and therefore don't feel they have as much need to prove themselves - especially at Spurs. They want instant success so will demand a large funds to get in AAA players so they can keep the myth going that they're the best manager since sliced bread.

We are not a club that will splash unlimited money in the hopes that some will be winners - and you can understand why because most of the time when we have done so breaking or getting near the top of our transfer record - Lamela, Soldado, Ndombele, Sanchez, they've been utter cock ups.

So, in my very limited view, what is needed is a manager who has everything to prove with a decent track record in his previous roles and with the patience to stay the course over a couple of seasons knowing that he's not going to get everything he wants in the very first transfer window he gets.

Unless you're a financially doped club, it actually takes multiple seasons to build a team capable of challenging for honours - and that's without taking into account that the odds are stacked against you with the money dipped clubs.

Even in the early days of teams like Man City and Newcastle having an unlimited transfer budget, it took time to weed out the wasters and get in the personnel that was required.

Ultimately - we've tried serial winners and they've not worked out so it's down to whether we can actually trust Ange to sort things out - at the moment, that first ten games has given him a get out of Jail card in the sense that we're a lot higher up the table than our performances have merited. Even then, one single solitary season is nowhere near enough time to determine whether Ange is going to make it here.

TLDR: We've tried serial managers and they've been utter cock ups - trust in Ange and give him time as it's something we haven't done since Poch, so let's try it.

Doing the same thing over and over again is not the answer so let's try to stick for a while - what's the worst that could happen.
 
And the previous trophy winner before them sits with them at the bottom with Venables winning 7 of his first 33.
To be fair, Venables did inherit a huge mess when he took over. The 86/87 team was completely obliterated in the summer of 87:

- Glenn Hoddle left to join Monaco
- Richard Gough left to join Rangers
- Ray Clemence had to retire through injury
- Chris Waddle was out for several months
- Ossie Ardiles was 35 and injury prone
- Clive Allen's goals dried up when there was no service for him
- huge media circus over David Pleat's private life

The 87/88 playing squad was full of has-beens, injury prone players and players that just weren't good enough. We were also playing with two back-up keepers with neither one good enough for a regular first team place which IMO is a proven recipe for disaster (see Leicester last season). The goalkeeper situation was not resolved until January 1989.

I can't honestly blame Venables for taking a bit more time to get a run of form together after everything he had to deal with.
 
The cult thing I find genuinely interesting. Some intriguing parallels with Emilio Gentile’s work on political religion. The wisdom of the leader cannot be questioned and we must all blindly follow.
Was it really cult like though?!

I think the fanbase just breathed a massive collective sigh of relief to have exciting football back after dinoball, and have a manager in position who wanted to be here.

I grant you the song was a touch OTT/cringe after a while, but a lot of the ‘AngeBall’ hype was media generated.

If you call a large swathe of the fanbase saying he needs time and not descending into hysteria after a bad patch, cult like, then guilty as charged! 😁
 
Agreed.

Twitter especially seems to give a large number of looney tunes a platform.
Completely agree.

I actually lean towards giving Ange more time despite my scepticism.

1. I don't see the point in sacking him now.
2. Gmspurs Gmspurs and others have said 'hire and fire' has done nothing for us, I agree.
3. There's no one obvious to take over
4. 'Win now' with two toxic dinosaurs didn't work for us.

I guess my fear - I repeat - is can Ange learn and adapt?
 
Yes. Dad birthday cards with Ange's face on it, fans on Twitter saying they would give body parts if he got ill, expressions of undying love, etc. Obviously a lot in jest but even so.

That's not to say that most aren't somewhere sensible in between two extremes.

I started speaking with an Australian accent and only eat Vegemite and Lamingtons washed down with a tinnie.

Not cultish behaviour at all.
 
So do you think the players are playing to the best of their ability?

No but there are many reasons for that-Vic, VdV, Udogie are not experienced at this level. Neither Maddison nor Bentacour have regained their pre-injury form. Sarr has not been the same after the Afrian Cup. Kulu, Johnson, Werner Son and Richarlson are inconsistent.

Spurs are not playing Angeball as I know it, bar some glimpses of it every now and then. I don't know why that is.
 
No but there are many reasons for that-Vic, VdV, Udogie are not experienced at this level. Neither Maddison nor Bentacour have regained their pre-injury form. Sarr has not been the same after the Afrian Cup. Kulu, Johnson, Werner Son and Richarlson are inconsistent.

Spurs are not playing Angeball as I know it, bar some glimpses of it every now and then. I don't know why that is.
And how do we know that Eze or whoever we get in the summer are going to play it any better than the present bunch?

What I think the reason is we don't have the players, they aren't good enough to play that way, and that applies to most of the other teams in the PL too.

If we had players like Gazza, Klinsman, Ginola, Waddle Modric, Bale et al then yes but I can't see us acquiring such players of that ilk. Especially on bulk.
 
Ok if you keep changing managers and the outcome is the same then whose fault is it?

The concern is the team not improving under Postecoglou as the season has gone on. That's on him and makes him a risk going forward.

On the other hand this player list has a ceiling of top 5-8 with any any manager you get in.
What if a manager has a ceiling?

We change managers and players regularly and the result is always the same.
 
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