• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Management Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Deuterz said:
HE DIDN'T FUCKING HAVE ANY 100M PLAYERS. Good fucking god.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Neither did Ange. Not one minute did Ange have a 100m player.


Deuterz said:
His team were in the relegation zone when he took over the fucking club. Talking about net spend when comparing a team who started with Son and Kane compared to a team who were in the relegation zone is beyond thick. You're starting from completely different levels. And even then, our net spend is lower purely due to Howe being there longer.

"Net spend is net spend" Ange has been here less fucking time than Howe. Compare the squad value of Spurs compared to the squad value of Newcastle. We have the 6th highest payroll according to spotrac, they have the 9th.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I literally gave you the figures, we are almost identical.

2024-2025 Premier League Payrolls

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances
www.capology.com www.capology.com

Deuterz said:
So they have a less valuable squad and spend less on wages.

A "cl quality team" you absolute jokeman. Good god.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They literally qualified for the CL the season before last.

Deuterz said:
Against the Aussie Howe had a backline of Pope, Livramento, Burn, Kelly and Krafth the other day. He turned them in to a "CL" team by virtue of insane over-performance, that isn't a CL level squad by any stretch of the imagination. They start Longstaff WEEKLY.

Ange would be shipping five a game with that backline. We're shaky enough with Udogie, VDV, Romero, Vicario and Porro.

You used a sacked manager and a manager who took over a team in the relegation zone. The examples suck, find some better ones.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's great. You keep reinforcing my point. So Ange outperformed what you consider to be insanely good coach capable of getting massive over performance from his team, who has had 30m more spent on his team, has an almost identical wage bill, and has had an extra year to work with his team.

All this Howe did this and that is fucking irrelevant. I didn't say Howe is shit. In fact the less shit he is, the more it makes my point.
 
bus-conductor said:
Neither did Ange. Not one minute did Ange have a 100m player.




I literally gave you the figures, we are almost identical.

2024-2025 Premier League Payrolls

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances
www.capology.com www.capology.com



They literally qualified for the CL the season before last.



That's great. You keep reinforcing my point. So Ange outperformed what you consider to be insanely good coach capable of getting massive over performance from his team, who has had 30m more spent on his team, has an almost identical wage bill, and has had an extra year to work with his team.

All this Howe did this and that is fucking irrelevant. I didn't say Howe is shit. In fact the less shit he is, the more it makes my point.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes he did. He then got the 100m from it and got to reinvest it. You’re talking net spend like Howe didn’t have to transform a team from relegation battlers to top 4. Ange had to take over a team 4th season before last to .. yep, fifth.

WRONG. Bad source.

Yeah, because Howe overachieved. Their squad isn’t CL quality lmao.

Howe outperformed a coach who a couple of seasons ago took over a team in the relegation zone. He didn’t outperform him as a coach, we just have a much better squad all round than Newcastle and spend more in every single area.


Ange took over a squad which was 8th and 4th the season before that. He then added a bunch of his own players. This season he got to sign a 65m striker. He hand picked a 50m winger in Johnson. Got to sign a world class CB in the making in Van de ven. Muscled out Newcastle to sign Maddison.

We’ve consistently been a top 6 club for years. Our status as a club is way beyond Newcastle and the squad reflects that. That back 5 they started with vs us was hilarious, not a single player would get near our team.

Howe = borderline working miracles, Flange = Treading water first season and gulping it down so far this season.
 
Deuterz said:
Yes he did. He then got the 100m from it and got to reinvest it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You lose 100m then you get 100m. try and work out the net of that sum.

Deuterz said:
You’re talking net spend like Howe didn’t have to transform a team from relegation battlers to top 4. Ange had to take over a team 4th season before last to .. yep, fifth.

WRONG. Bad source.

Yeah, because Howe overachieved. Their squad isn’t CL quality lmao.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So Ange inherited a team that finished 8th then took them to 5th, whilst Howe took his team that finished in 4th, spent 106m and then finished 7th.

Deuterz said:
Howe = borderline working miracles, Flange = finishing above the miracle man
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

FYP
Mate.
 
bus-conductor said:
You lose 100m then you get 100m. try and work out the net of that sum.



So Ange inherited a team that finished 8th then took them to 5th, whilst Howe took his team that finished in 4th, spent 106m and then finished 7th.



FYP
Mate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The point is really simple. Ange had assets when he took over, Howe didn’t. Ange had a 100m player who was sold to give him 100m net to play with. He had Son who got him 16 goals 10 assists in the league last season. Romero who starts for Argentina. Etc. Howe took over a much, MUCH weaker side. It’s not even a comparable situation.

Finishing 4th was a pie in the sky over accomplishment for Howe. It was insanely ahead of schedule for them as a club. You don’t get to use it as a stick to beat him with. They had an injury crisis and, unlike us, their squaddies are barely Prem quality at all.

He’s finishing above a guy who inherited relegation battlers, got them over achieving, had an injury crisis + Europe and therefore dropped a bit. Squad wise our depth and quality throughout the team is so far above Newcastle. From their lineup the other day you take Guimaraes, Gordon, Isak and that’s it. Ange has way more to play with. He has a backline of top level internationals vs a backline of a bottom 4 club.

Most of Howe’s spend last summer went on a player who got a gambling ban FFS. Finishing ahead of the absolute state that was the N’castle team for most of last season isn’t even close to an accomplishment.
 
Deuterz said:
Ermmmm are you maybe counting the entire time Howe has been at the club? Which is longer than Ange? Since both have been there, there is absolutely zero chance Howe has spent more, lol. They practically didn’t sign someone this window. Their big signing last season got a betting ban for an entire fucking season ya jokester.

Oh please. You KNOW that list isn’t even comparable to the shit Howe inherited. Literal championship players. I don’t like Kulu but he’s a shit load superior to Jacob Murphy. Newcastle would fucking kill to have Udogie !!!!!!



Even if it was true - fuck me, Ange inherited a much better side including a 100m asset we sold. Nobody in the Newcastle team was even worth close to that when Howe took over.

Oh boohoo inheriting a team which was 8th. It was 4th the season before that with a coach there the entire season. And Poch inherited a team way below 8th. Money was spent on about five hundred players which = a season of adaptation. They consistently got a lot better, fucking schooled Ange in the second meeting after both had a season to work with their players. Our results fucking nosedived during the season.

Haha underlying metrics. Look at the points, nobody cares about doing better at things which aren’t getting you points.

His job isn’t even comparable to Howe and Poch got fucking sacked for his! Terrible bloody examples. Next you’ll cite Ten Haag who at least won something.

Our PPG for a very long period is dreadful. Our cup performances suck. Our big game results are dire. We had a halfway alright league season but are 13th. Lots of reasons to think he may be out of his depth.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
bus-conductor bus-conductor

3 points to add to Ange vs Howe debate:
1. We could also consider which style of play has a higher ceiling, rather than just who has done better with their resources so far. Imo Ange's style of play has a higher ceiling, it's just a case of getting it to click.
2. Ange needs more time before sample size is big enough for direct comparison to be made. Last season both clubs suffered a sustained injury crisis.
3. Net spend doesn't just reflect the quality of players transferred, but also the negotiating abilities of executives at the club. Imo we overpaid for Johnson and Solanke but got VdV for a bargain. Perhaps instead of using net spend comparisons between Ange and Howe, it makes more sense to use the current market values of the players transferred/ the squad as a whole.
 
Deuterz said:
The point is really simple. Ange had assets when he took over, Howe didn’t. Ange had a 100m player who was sold to give him 100m net to play with. He had Son who got him 16 goals 10 assists in the league last season. Romero who starts for Argentina. Etc. Howe took over a much, MUCH weaker side. It’s not even a comparable situation.

Finishing 4th was a pie in the sky over accomplishment for Howe. It was insanely ahead of schedule for them as a club. You don’t get to use it as a stick to beat him with. They had an injury crisis and, unlike us, their squaddies are barely Prem quality at all.

He’s finishing above a guy who inherited relegation battlers, got them over achieving, had an injury crisis + Europe and therefore dropped a bit. Squad wise our depth and quality throughout the team is so far above Newcastle. From their lineup the other day you take Guimaraes, Gordon, Isak and that’s it. Ange has way more to play with. He has a backline of top level internationals vs a backline of a bottom 4 club.

Most of Howe’s spend last summer went on a player who got a gambling ban FFS. Finishing ahead of the absolute state that was the N’castle team for most of last season isn’t even close to an accomplishment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fair post, and I don't want to repeat myself but-
Ange's style of play is inherently more risky but has a higher ceiling than Howe's as his teams have more control over games. Ange's style needs elite players, Howe is slightly more pragmatic and certainly better suited to a mediocre squad.
This is what makes our poor transfer window even more frustrating.
 
To Dare Is To Do. said:
bus-conductor bus-conductor

3 points to add to Ange vs Howe debate:
1. We could also consider which style of play has a higher ceiling, rather than just who has done better with their resources so far. Imo Ange's style of play has a higher ceiling, it's just a case of getting it to click.
2. Ange needs more time before sample size is big enough for direct comparison to be made. Last season both clubs suffered a sustained injury crisis.
3. Net spend doesn't just reflect the quality of players transferred, but also the negotiating abilities of executives at the club. Imo we overpaid for Johnson and Solanke but got VdV for a bargain. Perhaps instead of using net spend comparisons between Ange and Howe, it makes more sense to use the current market values of the players transferred/ the squad as a whole.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's all a nonsense straw man argument anyway. I didn't say which manager was better, or one is good one is shit, I merely pointed out that in finishing above people like Howe/Newcastle and Poch/Chelsea last season, at least demonstrated Ange isn't "out of his depth" in this league. That was it.

I think I insulted Deuterz Deuterz 's "how dare I suggest an Aussie could to better than an Englishman" honour and he felt duty bound to climb the hill and die on it.
 
bus-conductor said:
It's all a nonsense straw man argument anyway. I didn't say which manager was better, or one is good one is shit, I merely pointed out that in finishing above people like Howe/Newcastle and Poch/Chelsea last season, at least demonstrated Ange isn't "out of his depth" in this league. That was it.

I think I insulted Deuterz Deuterz 's "how dare I suggest an Aussie could to better than an Englishman" honour and he felt duty bound to climb the hill and die on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He finished above a coach who got sacked for underperformance and above a coach who had the squad depth of a relegation threatened team and an injury crisis. Whose big summer signing got banned for the season.

Newcastle were disappointing last season for various reasons. Neither of these coaches had a good season at either club.
 
Deuterz said:
He finished above a coach who got sacked for underperformance and above a coach who had the squad depth of a relegation threatened team and an injury crisis. Whose big summer signing got banned for the season.

Newcastle were disappointing last season for various reasons. Neither of these coaches had a good season at either club.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ange had a better season than Howe. Or is 7th higher than 5th if you divide 100m by PPG and x it by Australian?
 
Kiro Kompiro said:
He did adjuts as recently against City in that game. Its not that he can't set up a 9 man team to defend on the edge of their box. He simply refused to do it.

He himself said it was about getting the players to buy in. He also said to the players any consequences are on him not them. And you know, there were chances to win the game playing that way. It could have papyed off-the upside hto that would have been huge. Its obviously very high risk and he can be criticised him for it, but thats why did it
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He's said this a lot (and fair dues for doing so) but it rings pretty thin when the results and performances leave so much to be desired. I'd rather he took more decisive action and benched players not performing (Romero, Maddison) to shake things up a bit.

Shame we don't have the same "luxury" on the wings where (arguably) our biggest problems are.
 
bus-conductor said:
Ange had a better season than Howe. Or is 7th higher than 5th if you divide 100m by PPG and x it by Australian?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He had a better season if you think Spurs and Newcastle are the same. Which we aren’t, as squad value clearly shows. I’d love to see where Ange finishes with Burn, Murphy, Krafth, Dubravka and Longstaff in an XI. Go on, make me laugh again by throwing out names of full internationals for top countries and pretending they’re comparable.

6 point gap in the end. Considering Howe contended with European football, got to two quarter finals and had to deal with the shell of a relegation threatened squad .. I’d say good job.

Didgeridoos out anyway though I guess.
 
Deuterz said:
He had a better season if you think Spurs and Newcastle are the same. Which we aren’t, as squad value clearly shows. I’d love to see where Ange finishes with Burn, Murphy, Krafth, Dubravka and Longstaff in an XI. Go on, make me laugh again by throwing out names of full internationals for top countries and pretending they’re comparable.

6 point gap in the end. Considering Howe contended with European football, got to two quarter finals and had to deal with the shell of a relegation threatened squad .. I’d say good job.

Didgeridoos out anyway though I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zzz Ok GIF by Jim Gaffigan
 
Slavvie said:
Risking the usual Woke Brigade crap, yes. I'm a first-gen Aussie who works with a lot of indigenous students and staff. I don't like what I'm seeing on the footy pitch either, but this sort of stuff really irks me.

Mugs game spending time on the Internet if I'm ticked off by dumb comments, to be fair :ange-facepalm:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well we Brits also get it so I know where you're coming from....but this TFC...nothing is sacred.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top