Dele

[AcrossThePond]

I've not read through the thread, but have just watched todays training video on Youtube and for the third time in a row I can't help but compare the way Dele looks in training to the way Lamela does. Everything Coco does is a little exaggerated, knees high, full twists etc etc. Whether or not that makes a substantial difference to how effectively he trains is not a question for me, but Dele needs to realise that it will have an effect on how he is perceived.

IIRC in the Amazon documentary, Jose was pretty clear on Dele not being one of the guys who takes training as seriously as Jose demands.

I suspect that his drop from the starting 11 has as much to do with his training as the changes in style and new players brought in.

I don't think Jose wants rid. He knows how important depth is to a club that wants to challenge for trophies. I think he wants Dele to raise his level of training and level of play.

I hope Dele responds, my son will be devastated if he's sold.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

That's your interpretation.

Do you think N'Dombele has changed fundamentally as a human being in 3 months?

Some personality transplant?

Or the more logical thing is that he struggled with a combination of settling in to a new country, adjusting to the increased physical demands of the Prem and a lingering injury that was initially misdiagnosed.

He's adapting, he's happier.

On Dele like I've said, we've moved beyond needing him, and I've explained at length why I believe this It doesn't mean he's become rubbish or he's suddenly stopped loving football.

Also people need to accept that players will have other interests and will be used to market things. Son does a tonne of stuff for the Korean market. David Ginola was hugely marketable when he was winning POTY for us. In fact the better this club does,, the more high profile it's players will become and the more marketing opportunities they will have, That's the nature of the business.

Nope fundamentally changed obviously. Neural transplant. He is clearly completely different human....

 

[poch's coat]

Get him out. He hasn't kicked on, in fact the opposite. I don't know or care why. Some players improve during their career some decline. Dele has definitely declined. Team setup probably doesnt suit him but tough, top players adapt.

He is miles away from the first team, on big money and a long contract. Where on earth are we going to send him? Who would pay for him? Its a loan hoping that he has a good spell and they buy him.

I dont think any of this will happen. I think he will stay, getting the odd game, performing poorly, dividing fans and the dressing room. To think we could have got £50m for him at one point. Jeeez.

 

[bonaspur23]

he’s a #10 or a second striker and Jose uses neither. He has no position and hasn’t shown the willingness to adapt his game.

We really should be selling players if we think we can get more value than they are worth to us. Dortmund has done an excellent job of this and is able to compete each year.

We have a little bigger budget than them, but we should be trying to emulate them as our rivals will likely have more spending power than us for the foreseeable future.

We need to sell smart... before a player completely depreciates like eriksen and dele did.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Still think he will play an important role before the end of this season, and if we are destined for big things.
Then Dele deserves to be a part of that for his role in the last few seasons.

Eh?

He's been awful the last few seasons.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

I think that Dele's problems started when he played in the WC, when he wasn't really fit and that he had a mental issue/fear with aggravating his hamstring.
When Jose arrived and asked him if he was Dele's brother, he had a couple of good games. He hasn't kept that up, and seems to have lost his hunger to play. I hope he doesn't end up like Danny Rose, he's a lot younger and it would be a waste of talent, as I still believe there is a useful player in there somewhere. But for that to come out, he needs to step up and apply himself. Sadly, I don't think that he is going to do it with us.

 

[deadleyledley]

The thing is, at 24 years old and plying pro for 8 years, it's going to be mighty hard for him to change and reinvent himself.

In a perverse way Pochettino putting this raw unpolished 19 year old with some elite attributes, but also some huge flaws to be the free spirit in an otherwise quite regimented system hurt his all round development. All he had to do defensively was join in on the press and he could do that as he was an excellent athlete when he arrived.

Ball winning, recycling possession, resisting pressure, breaking the line, (all the standard midfield stuff) was all left to Dier/Wanyama, Dembele & Eriksen. Even Kane had more tasks to do to make the team work. Dele had two primary tasks, support runs into the box and the final pass. He was used in such away that it focused exclusively on his strengths and none of his weaknesses were worked on.

Great post.

 

[deadleyledley]

Agree, but what's sad is i don't think he has the maturity or desire to graft and add those things to his game. Those weaknesses need to first acknowledged (which i 'm not convinced he's done) and then actively worked on which i'm not sure he can do. Hopefully he can prove me and all the other doubters on here wrong.

Agreed. Think that boat has sailed.

At the very least I would have liked him to develop his left foot a bit more. He hasn't done that and so I don't think he will be developing any other attributes as much.

Also think he doesn't really know which position is best for him. On the balance of play AM is what most people would say. He played CM at MK Dons and Left of a 3 for England. When he first came in we played Eriksen at AM and Dele would come in off the right channel. This allowed him to ghost in undetected but I don't think he has evolved himself enough to add to his game.

 

[josh_spurs]

Big clubs have big squads with good players. Dele is undoubtedly a good player and will play his part to help win us matches over the course of the season.

He does not fit in the best system for us right now but across the course of the season, whether it be PL, EL, Carabao or FA Cup, he can have an impact and is a great option if we are forced into a different approach for whatever reason.

I've noticed a lot this year that people appear to struggle to come to terms with our squad size, I think its a mentality thing caused by supporting Spurs. For example, when Doherty was signed, people immediately thought Aurier should then be sold. That leaves us with then only one "right-back", which is back where we started.

Dele situation is similar, as Jose says, it is important to look not only at the bench, but who is at home, and see how much quality a squad has, especially if we want to win stuff. We need to keep players like Dele who offer a different style and a Plan B/C/D, IMO...

 

[ryuzakiluke100]

he’s a #10 or a second striker and Jose uses neither. He has no position and hasn’t shown the willingness to adapt his game.

We really should be selling players if we think we can get more value than they are worth to us. Dortmund has done an excellent job of this and is able to compete each year.

We have a little bigger budget than them, but we should be trying to emulate them as our rivals will likely have more spending power than us for the foreseeable future.

We need to sell smart... before a player completely depreciates like eriksen and dele did.

I have no idea about Mourinho time pre Porto, but since every Mourinho team has a no 10. Failure like that Armenian guy, and Alexis Sanchez experiment at Man U doesn't mean Mourinho doesn't use a #10. Deco, Ozil, Kaka, Lampard, Oscar, Fabregas, Sneijder.

The issue is Dele doesn't offer what is needed. Ozil ain't hard working and we read story about Mourinho had to be a pain in his ass to keep motivate him to produce which he did. Dele stagnated for a while before Mourinho arrived and haven't really improve.

Another factor is Kane's evolution. He's taking some of a play maker role, and we need midfielder that can drive forward to let our wide attackers focus on movement into goal scoring area.

So Dele is direct competition to Lamela and partial back up for Kane play making forward role instead of a leading the line forward in Vinicius.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Lot of people with very short memories of the quality this guy possesses.

The dinked goal with the outside of the foot against Woolwich at the Emirates, the Palace goal.

I question his hunger but not his ability. Jose is giving him this treatment to see how badly he wants it.
Anyone that watched the Amazon doc its apparent that Jose rates him highly and thinks he is wasting his talent.

think he will prove a lot of you very wrong

 

[TeamSpirit™]

Lot of people with very short memories of the quality this guy possesses.

The dinked goal with the outside of the foot against Woolwich at the Emirates, the Palace goal.

I question his hunger but not his ability. Jose is giving him this treatment to see how badly he wants it.
Anyone that watched the Amazon doc its apparent that Jose rates him highly and thinks he is wasting his talent.

think he will prove a lot of you very wrong

He’s capable of pieces of magic that nobody bar N’Dombele is capable of, true.

does this mean we have to force him in and unbalance the rest of the team despite his flaws? No.

I’m an advocate for selling him, that doesn’t mean it has an element of risk, but if we can improve by bringing in a top class CB with the funds selling Dele will raise then we’re better overall.

He’s our Phillipe Coutinho, we should sacrifice him for the greater good.

 

[todd1882]

Keep seeing references to how much 'quality' Dele has and how his greatness is without doubt etc etc. If this player was playing for Woolwich or Chelsea we'd be laughing our asses off everytime a fucking ball bounced off him or another misplaced 5yd pass was sent to the oppo. Give me a break.

Folks this player should have been moved on a few seasons ago. Greatness and quality can be counted on. They don't just fade. I saw a reference to Ozil...Ozil is a supremely talent footballer. Also, he is a lazy prick but balls don't bounce off of him. You can literally kick the ball at any part of his body and he will control it. Can't really say the same for bumblefeet. Oh but the nutmegs...

...and we still got references to the fucking Crystal Palace goal 5+ seasons ago. FFS!!!! GKN scored that goal at Fulham. Do we want him back too? N'Jie had that move in the City game...we should give him a call while we're at it.

 

[Boltonspur]

keep him for now. It’s a squad game and he can do a job for us. Jose has lit the fire under his arse so it’s down to Dele now. He can either sit there and let it burn him away or he can step up. At one time he was the brightest prospect in England. Ferguson even told Jose to buy him at Manure. He can either sort his shit out or waste his talent. Maybe a move (Abroad) would be better for him long term but there’s little point in throwing out the baby with the bath water just yet. We know what he’s capable of. Isn’t he one of the youngest midfielders to ever reach 50 goals? Give him this season to get his mojo back & in contention. It’s his choice whether he pisses his career away.

 

[Mr. Voldemort]

keep him for now. It’s a squad game and he can do a job for us. Jose has lit the fire under his arse so it’s down to Dele now. He can either sit there and let it burn him away or he can step up. At one time he was the brightest prospect in England. Ferguson even told Jose to buy him at Manure. He can either sort his shit out or waste his talent. Maybe a move (Abroad) would be better for him long term but there’s little point in throwing out the baby with the bath water just yet. We know what he’s capable of. Isn’t he one of the youngest midfielders to ever reach 50 goals? Give him this season to get his mojo back & in contention. It’s his choice whether he pisses his career away.

Would you agree that he is now perfectly aware of his perilous situation and the pressure he's under to get a place back in the Premier first team ?. If you do then if he's selected to start this evening and gives a lightweight performance then surely that's sufficient indication that his interest at the club has dwindled and a (loan) /move would suit both parties at the moment.

 

[Boltonspur]

Would you agree that he is now perfectly aware of his perilous situation and the pressure he's under to get a place back in the Premier first team ?. If you do then if he's selected to start this evening and gives a lightweight performance then surely that's sufficient indication that his interest at the club has dwindled and a (loan) /move would suit both parties at the moment.

I would agree that he’s an idiot if he doesn’t realise the precarious position he is in. However, he’s not featured very much recently & match sharpness only comes with competitive matches. I wouldn’t expect the world from him in a one off match. He would start in EL, carabao and early rounds of FA cup. If he starts to click, he’d be back in matchday squads soon enough. But I think he needs to be seen in a few competitive games to see if he can shake off this poor form (or maybe even poor attitude). I’d want to see 100% effort. No fucking about. If I saw him put in a shift tonight, for example, I wouldn’t give up on him even if it doesn’t all click straight away.
It wasn’t that long ago that he was a rising star. That has come to a juddering halt recently & it certainly appears that’s down to him. But he can absolutely raise his level to where it was & beyond imo. It’s all down to how much he wants to be a footballer or how content he is with the celebrity lifestyle.

 

[Airfixx]

Would you agree that he is now perfectly aware of his perilous situation and the pressure he's under to get a place back in the Premier first team ?. If you do then if he's selected to start this evening and gives a lightweight performance then surely that's sufficient indication that his interest at the club has dwindled and a (loan) /move would suit both parties at the moment.

If he does, his detractors will say "It was only one game that's not a definitive reflection of a corner turned" and if he doesn't his defenders will say "It was only one game that's not a definitive reflection of a corner not turned"....

I'm not saying it's a pointless debate, but any appearance; whether he plays well or not will only be part of the picture that Jose uses to assess him. How well he applies himself in training we be central to any eventual decision.... Be that whether he plays tonight or if he is sold in Jan or the summer.

 

[mick derry]

TeamSpirit™ said:
The thing is, at 24 years old and plying pro for 8 years, it's going to be mighty hard for him to change and reinvent himself.

In a perverse way Pochettino putting this raw unpolished 19 year old with some elite attributes, but also some huge flaws to be the free spirit in an otherwise quite regimented system hurt his all round development. All he had to do defensively was join in on the press and he could do that as he was an excellent athlete when he arrived.

Ball winning, recycling possession, resisting pressure, breaking the line, (all the standard midfield stuff) was all left to Dier/Wanyama, Dembele & Eriksen. Even Kane had more tasks to do to make the team work. Dele had two primary tasks, support runs into the box and the final pass. He was used in such away that it focused exclusively on his strengths and none of his weaknesses were worked on.
Click to expand...

I was agreeing with this post but the bolded comment I thought a bit unfair and it jogged my memory of reading a stat (two years or so ago) about how much Dele regained possession - most in the league if I remember rightly, but from a position of high up the pitch. I couldn't be bothered looking for the exact article but found this one, statsbomb (I've never looked at a statsbomb article before and am aware of all the shortcomings of them) He, certainly at the time of the article, was doing more than your post states.

Dele Alli: Progress Depends On The Unreasonable Man | StatsBomb​

Dele Alli has become a pressing monster this season while continuing to carry a goal threat. Fans of opposition clubs...

statsbomb.com

'This season Dele has really dialled up the amount of pressure he applies to opposition players. It has been effective, resulting in a huge amount of pressure regains for his team. On average Spurs win the ball back over five times every single match within five seconds of Dele pressuring an opponent. Players with elite destructive traits such as N'Golo Kante and Sergio Busquets are forcing fewer pressure regains than that this season. Dele is also attempting almost twice as many tackles compared to last season and, impressively, is winning almost three quarters of them. His leggy build and masterful powers of anticipation are a tough combination for opposition players especially in tight areas during moments of transition. As well as disrupting opponents, Dele reduces the pressure experienced by his teammates. He's a great out ball - receiving the most passes when under pressure in this Spurs team. Once he's got the ball he doesn't just shift responsibility onto someone else in a similarly tough spot. Out of the entire Spurs squad he only plays the sixth most passes to a teammate under pressure. Interestingly this is quite a change from last season. When it comes to applying and relieving pressure Dele really seems to be developing.

 

[Mr. Voldemort]

I would agree that he’s an idiot if he doesn’t realise the precarious position he is in. However, he’s not featured very much recently & match sharpness only comes with competitive matches. I wouldn’t expect the world from him in a one off match. He would start in EL, carabao and early rounds of FA cup. If he starts to click, he’d be back in matchday squads soon enough. But I think he needs to be seen in a few competitive games to see if he can shake off this poor form (or maybe even poor attitude). I’d want to see 100% effort. No fucking about. If I saw him put in a shift tonight, for example, I wouldn’t give up on him even if it doesn’t all click straight away.
It wasn’t that long ago that he was a rising star. That has come to a juddering halt recently & it certainly appears that’s down to him. But he can absolutely raise his level to where it was & beyond imo. It’s all down to how much he wants to be a footballer or how content he is with the celebrity lifestyle.

Totally agree with your post and I'm not necessarily asking for a MOTM performance and I don't think José is either. I just want to see effort and commitment, a hunger for the ball and to be part of the play all of the time he's on the pitch. Simply doing the basics correctly and not 'switching off' for ten minute spells. I'll gladly settle for that.

 

[Claud601]

We need to see Harry Winks and Dele link up if we are to win the league