Eric Dier

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sammyspurs said:
It’s a bit like saying a Ferrari that doesn’t start is more useful than a VW that doesn’t start

For me they’re both sitting there doing fuck all.
I’m not happier because one is worth more.
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You've got to stop saying silly shit. We are not talking about both players not being out there on the pitch (like cars not starting) we are talking about them both being out there (starting in your car metaphor) but both players by their own individual standards being sub par. So to extend your car metaphor, we'd all rather have a Porsche* with a misfire than a VW with a misfire, because they'll both still get you there, but the Porsche will still get you there quicker and more stylishly.

*I'm replacing Porsche for Ferrari, for reasons of good taste.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Well, just saying but CM Wanyama of 29.09.2018 II half was much more convincing that CM Dier of 29.09.2018 I half...
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Goal vs Liverpool aside, that's half a game since injury 18 months ago.

So, are you prepared to bench Dier on that basis? ...Or on closer inspection would you actually consider that a relative gamble of the two options?

Not easy being Poch.
 
bus-conductor said:
You've got to stop saying silly shit. We are not talking about both players not being out there on the pitch (like cars not starting) we are talking about them both being out there (starting in your car metaphor) but both players by their own individual standards being sub par. So to extend your car metaphor, we'd all rather have a Porsche* with a misfire than a VW with a misfire, because they'll both still get you there, but the Porsche will still get you there quicker and more stylishly.

*I'm replacing Porsche for Ferrari, for reasons of good taste.
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And I’m saying that a good car that runs like shit is no better than a crap car that runs like shit.

You seem to think that because Eriksen is better than Dier when both are at their best that means that when Eriksen is poor, he must be better than a poor Dier as a rule of thumb.

It doesn’t work like that.

There are different levels of underperforming.
How can you say with a straight face that no matter how poor Eriksen is, he will never underperform Dier? It’s sheer nonsense.
 
Airfixx said:
Goal vs Liverpool aside, that's half a game since injury 18 months ago.

So, are you prepared to bench Dier on that basis? ...Or on closer inspection would you actually consider that a relative gamble of the two options?

Not easy being Poch.
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Ah yes, I agree with that 100%.
I did not mean with my post that it would be settled or we'd have enough evidence or anything. Just pointed out that in this game alone, he seemed a lot better option. Hopefully he will regain such form on constant basis, but right now it is too early to call.

Though this amount of loose passes (and also very-very medicore pressing in midfield area) by Dier were in fact SO poor, that if he'd put in one more such performance, I'd say that Winks and Sissoko should be ahead of - this is how shocked I was. But I hope that this was one-off and Dier will up his game as soon as possible!
 
TheSpurEst said:
Ah yes, I agree with that 100%.
I did not mean with my post that it would be settled or we'd have enough evidence or anything. Just pointed out that in this game alone, he seemed a lot better option. Hopefully he will regain such form on constant basis, but right now it is too early to call.

Though this amount of loose passes (and also very-very medicore pressing in midfield area) by Dier were in fact SO poor, that if he'd put in one more such performance, I'd say that Winks and Sissoko should be ahead of - this is how shocked I was. But I hope that this was one-off and Dier will up his game as soon as possible!
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Personally I think Dier hasn’t looked good since his CM partnership with Dele was broken up.

In the Leicester season they were fantastic together in the middle, but given Dele’s attacking abilities it was only a matter of time before he played a more forward role. They’re obviously close friends off the pitch, so maybe that connection brought the best out in him.

Since then he’s mostly looked like the weak link.
 
Jerry said:
Personally I think Dier hasn’t looked good since his CM partnership with Dele was broken up.

In the Leicester season they were fantastic together in the middle, but given Dele’s attacking abilities it was only a matter of time before he played a more forward role. They’re obviously close friends off the pitch, so maybe that connection brought the best out in him.

Since then he’s mostly looked like the weak link.
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Dier/Dembele was better.

Problem now is Dembele is nowhere near the level he was at in 15/16 when he was arguably the best all round central midfielder in the league. He could never quite build on that either because he was shafted between central midfield and centre back the following season.

Central midfield is the hardest position to play in football - yet if Dier is playing centre half for the majority of 12 months, his development was always going to stall. I mean, how was he playing in training?
 
bus-conductor said:
We finished second with Wanyama mostly playing in his place in CM and Dier playing more as a CB in a back 3.

I think if we'd had a proper, quality CM instead of Dier, we might have finished above Leicester and Woolwich in 15/16 and we might have finished above Utd in 17/18.

So, as much as I think on the whole, Poch is a great coach who gets a shitload of stuff right, I really think the whole Dier in CM thing isn't one of them.
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Given the choice I see replacing Sissoko as a much larger priority. I think Dier is a great squad player, trouble is he has become undroppable due to injuries and not signing reinforcements
 
Airfixx said:
Prob with this is:

1. Wanyama is a shadow of his former hights. Conversely, we know that ED, like Vic, has proven his capabilities in the past

2. We can only pick current Dier or current Vic OR pick on the basis of one or the other refinding their form.

We don't have the selective ability to drop Dier '18 in preference for Wanyama '16.

This is Poch's quandry.
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Absolutely agree with these.
I guess if Wanyama '16 is more of a concept. It represent possibility.
The thing is, Dier has played week in week out with no improvement.
As to in Wanyama case, it could be because the lack of match fitness, which you could only gained by playing in a competitive matches.
So in order to acquire '16 Wanyama, one has to be patient and let a run of games get by before we eliminate the '16 and agree that '18 version is permanent.

I would be more open to giving that time to Winks though. But how many games can Dembele soldier through. As it is i feel we use Dembele more often than he usually gets in recent seasons.
 
Imagine being so thick not to realise the difference between resting your best players in a lesser game vs dropping someone for poor form

:goonermong::goonermong::goonermong:
 
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messi dropped - Google Search

Why Klopp dropped Henderson to bench for Tottenham clash

Read more: Juventus v Tottenham: Pochettino reveals why Son has dropped to bench | Metro News
The Spurs boss made two changes to his team which beat Woolwich 1-0 at the weekend, with Son Heung-min and Kieran Trippier dropping to the bench in Turin.

Read more: Juventus v Tottenham: Pochettino reveals why Son has dropped to bench | Metro News
Dele Alli did not start Tottenham Hotspur's defeat of Brighton on ... The Argentine's inclusion meant Dele was forced to drop to the bench.

Why Keita was dropped to the Liverpool bench for Leicester clash


Dear TFC members.....learn basic English football language before you talk to me about what the word drop means.
Just because some of you think that being dropped means "sent to the reserves for 6 months and the manager thinks you´re SHIIIIIIIT", that doesnt make it the correct definition.

It just means that you dont know what the term dropped means.

It simply means, taken out of the team. There is no specific time frame. There is no specific reason. A player can be dropped to rest him, or for poor form, or to just rotate. Kane was dropped for the Watford game.
If people find that hysterically offensive, then they should seriously get a life.
 
spursmalc

"Drop" means "leave out"

Pressing disagree doeasnt change the English language to what you think it means.

Dont make me wheel out the Oxford dictionary again, oh fuck it:

4.1 Discard or exclude (someone or something)
‘they were dropped from the team in the reshuffle’


Time frame and reason is irrelevant, but dont tell me, you are more right than the dictionary, like you all were last time when you didnt know what spend meant.

 
sammyspurs said:
Why Klopp dropped Henderson to bench for Tottenham clash
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Easy answer to that one: Because he's shit.

But back to the topic at hand, thanks for the in-depth explanation sammyspurs sammyspurs

Would like to just show you that there are also cases of the term rested being used:

Ramos rested for Champions League trip to conserve energy –Lopetegui

Eden Hazard to be rested for Chelsea's Europa League match with PAOK Salonika

Mauricio Pochettino to rest Kieran Trippier and Toby Alderweireld and points out that cows are ignorant of train times

But at the end of the day, call it what you like - I'm out of this discussion.
 
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