Jose Mourinho

[TonySoprano]

Not very often and when we did it was not against anyone good. We beat Brighton 2-1 after trailing 1-0, we drew Norwich 2-2 after trailing 1-0, and we beat Aston Villa 3-2 after trailing 1-0. I think that's it for Mourinho in terms of PL games we trailed and then got something out of.

EDIT - We also drew Burnley 1-1 after trailing 1-0, but they also aren't any good either.

Woolwich as well.

 

[Clynelish]

Well if it's any consolation we aren't playing well and also probably not going to win anything.

Wooo bummer, I've already booked a hotel for May 2021 in Gdansk.

 

[greenmanRD]

Woolwich as well.

Ah, true, forgot that we trailed 1-0. It was probably one of our best performances under Mourinho.

 

[greenmanRD]

Wooo bummer, I've already booked a hotel for May 2021 in Gdansk.

I'm sure it'll be a great day out for teams that aren't named Tottenham.

 

[Ciro]

Ah, true, forgot that we trailed 1-0. It was probably one of our best performances under Mourinho.

We´ve lost against Bayern and United, but in Germany they´ve scored first and we scored with Sess to go level, and at Old Trafford Rashford scored first and then Dele Alli scored - again, to make it 1-1. In the CL group stages as well, we were losing 2-0 and ended the game winning 4-2. Against Boro in the FA Cup we suffered the first goal too. It would be the same story against Sheffield if it wasn´t for Moura´s handball.

We are counting 11 games in total now. That´a third of Jose´s games in charge.

 

[greenmanRD]

We´ve lost against Bayern and United, but in Germany they´ve scored first and we scored with Sess to go level, and at Old Trafford Rashford scored first and then Dele Alli scored - again, to make it 1-1. In the CL group stages as well, we were losing 2-0 and ended the game 4-2. Against Boro in the FA Cup we suffered the first goal and then got back in the game (ended 1-1). It would be the same against Sheffield if it wasn´t for Moura´s handball.

We are counting 11 games in total now. That´a third of Jose´s games in charge.

So we're counting games we came back and lost? How is that a come back? Losing is not a come back.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Jose Mourinho is a fraud. The worst manager Tottenham could ever have. Sack the bastard now before he does even more damage. Hojbjerg is our answer? Are you joking? How many defensive midfielders who can’t pass do we need? Surely we‘re overstocked in that department: Sissoko , Dier etc.
This was the most abject performance I’ve ever seen, since the last abject performance by Mourinho’s side. Jose is the problem. Sack the problem.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

I thought it was about suffering a goal and showing no reaction afterwards.

Does losing count as a reaction?

 

[Joshking5]

First of all, I disagree that he hasn´t improved any of our players. You might not like some of the players, that´s a different story - but it doesn´t mean that Jose hasn´t improved them.

Just for an example, Aurier. I don´t like him, I would prefer if he was sold (if we could sign someone for backup FB, obviously). But are you really denying that he just had the best season of his career under Jose?

What about Lucas? Again, it´s ok if you don´t like him, but after the break he´s been one of our best players. Do you honestly disagree with the fact that he has improved under Jose?

About Jose being the man for the job, only time will tell. Klopp needed two and a half years to build Liverpool. It´s perfectly reasonable to think Jose is not the man for the job; I won´t try to convince you otherwise - there was not enough time to respond to this question based on simple facts. Exactly for that reason, I ask you in return: do you really think Jose is not the manager for Tottenham based on half of a season and one full match after half of a pre-season?

I don’t think Aurier is any better than he was the only difference is he has now had a consistent run of games since Trippier left (my opinion). I have no problem with him and actually and I want him to stay for depth, don’t think there would be many better back up rb’s in the league.

Ahhh lucas, I’m glad you mentioned him. The player that wasn’t contributing for what felt like almost a decade and still Jose played him anyway. I would disagree that he has been one of our best players post lock down, he had a patch of good form but he’s always had patches of good form there in lies the problem (the Huddersfield & Ajax hat tricks were close together don’t forget). Even if you want to argue that Jose improved him, the truth is that he shouldn’t have been starting in the first place, Bergwijn deserved a run in the team a long time ago. This Is another instance of unfounded favouritism from Jose that I can’t get board with. THere are numerous instances of this!

so long story short I respectfully disagree with both of those examples, and I do not believe Jose has had any meaningful impact on the improvement of any of our players.

Is Jose the right man for us? No. Not in my opinion. You mention Klopp needing 2.5 years to get his team up to speed, that’s all well and good when you are talking about a project manager that stays at teams for a significant amount of time, we could afford to wait that out reap the benefits in a couple of years. Jose’s most recent teams are falling off a cliff by the time they get to 2.5 years. . . we are meant to be seeing results after 12 months at the club and 2 pre seasons but I can’t see anything positive at all from the team. Even when we did win after lockdown we wernt playing very well and were getting through by the skin of our teeth.

He has been on the decline for quite a while now and I don’t want our club to get to the point of toxicity that Utd and Chelsea dans has to put up with near the end. Kill it early get him gone.

 

[Matt1882]

The point to the article is Jose inability to coach attacking phases. It's NOT a personnel thing it's a coaching thing.

It says he got away with it with the likes of Hazard and Ronaldo.
I countered with we only have Kane with a (football) brain.
No one else will close to working this shit out for themselves like his other players.
Even Son.

 

[Ciro]

Does losing count as a reaction?

If you are losing the game and you put yourself in a position to not be losing the game, you reacted - the final score is another story.

You guys were mentioning our draw away to Norwich - they scored first, we reacted but the game ended in a draw.

If the argument is that we can´t react when the opponent scores first, then it definitely counts.

 

[Matt1882]

I'll say this as many times as I can with the caveat I'm not a Mourinho fanboi nor do I think he's lost it.

Changing him will so nothing.
The problems are so much deeper than him. We are exactly where we were when Poch took over.

IE, not in the Champions league, with a squad full of garbage that doesn't perform and having a hard time to move them on.

Look back to those days, Adebeyor, Kaboul, Lennon etc etc etc. Getting them out kickstarted the improvement

Fast forward..
Aurrier, Dier, Davies, Winks, Ndombele, Sissoko, Moura even Dele could as far as I'm concerned, all fuck off in favour of younger/better players.

Change Mourinho now and whoever comes in still has to have that shit stinking up the place. I bet Mourinho would bomb most of them out ASAP but Levy is probably in the background telling him the min amount he will accept....ie, too much.

 

[Igula]

I'll say this as many times as I can with the caveat I'm not a Mourinho fanboi nor do I think he's lost it.

Changing him will so nothing.
The problems are so much deeper than him. We are exactly where we were when Poch took over.

IE, not in the Champions league, with a squad full of garbage that doesn't perform and having a hard time to move them on.

Look back to those days, Adebeyor, Kaboul, Lennon etc etc etc. Getting them out kickstarted the improvement

Fast forward..
Aurrier, Dier, Davies, Winks, Ndombele, Sissoko, Moura even Dele could as far as I'm concerned, all fuck off in favour of younger/better players.

Change Mourinho now and whoever comes in still has to have that shit stinking up the place. I bet Mourinho would bomb most of them out ASAP but Levy is probably in the background telling him the min amount he will accept....ie, too much.

I think you are right in terms of competing for a championship, the players are not good enough. But changing Mourinho for a manager that doesn't set up to play for a 0-0 draw and focus so much on negative tactics could definitely improve the club for the short term.

For example if instead of what we put out yesterday we went with something like:

Lloris
Doherty-Toby-Sanchez-Davies
PEH-Ndombele
Son-Alli-Bergwijn
Kane
​

We are likely in a much better position to threaten Everton. I would persoanlly take Alli out but we really don't have a great option for him. Maybe move into a 4-4-2 with Son and Kane up front and Bergwijn and Lamela on the wings.

Having a manager that doesn't insist on keeping Davies at LB to fit a silly LB does nothing formation would immediately help us be more competitive.

 

[halothagod]

Not very often and when we did it was not against anyone good. We beat Brighton 2-1 after trailing 1-0, we drew Norwich 2-2 after trailing 1-0, and we beat Aston Villa 3-2 after trailing 1-0. I think that's it for Mourinho in terms of PL games we trailed and then got something out of.

EDIT - We also drew Burnley 1-1 after trailing 1-0, but they also aren't any good either.

So it’s not really literally, what you said, is it?

 

[sammyspurs]

I don't like you. Never have and never will.

I bet Jose is going to waive his 45M now, probably well upset you typed that

 

[Ciro]

I don’t think Aurier is any better than he was the only difference is he has now had a consistent run of games since Trippier left (my opinion). I have no problem with him and actually and I want him to stay for depth, don’t think there would be many better back up rb’s in the league.

Ahhh lucas, I’m glad you mentioned him. The player that wasn’t contributing for what felt like almost a decade and still Jose played him anyway. I would disagree that he has been one of our best players post lock down, he had a patch of good form but he’s always had patches of good form there in lies the problem (the Huddersfield & Ajax hat tricks were close together don’t forget). Even if you want to argue that Jose improved him, the truth is that he shouldn’t have been starting in the first place, Bergwijn deserved a run in the team a long time ago. This Is another instance of unfounded favouritism from Jose that I can’t get board with. THere are numerous instances of this!

so long story short I respectfully disagree with both of those examples, and I do not believe Jose has had any meaningful impact on the improvement of any of our players.

Is Jose the right man for us? No. Not in my opinion. You mention Klopp needing 2.5 years to get his team up to speed, that’s all well and good when you are talking about a project manager that stays at teams for a significant amount of time, we could afford to wait that out reap the benefits in a couple of years. Jose’s most recent teams are falling off a cliff by the time they get to 2.5 years. . . we are meant to be seeing results after 12 months at the club and 2 pre seasons but I can’t see anything positive at all from the team. Even when we did win after lockdown we wernt playing very well and were getting through by the skin of our teeth.

He has been on the decline for quite a while now and I don’t want our club to get to the point of toxicity that Utd and Chelsea dans has to put up with near the end. Kill it early get him gone.

Your answer basically helps my point.

The fact that you think Bergwijn should start instead of Lucas (which I agree) has nothing to do with the fact that Lucas is performing better under Jose than he was before him. And the fact that Aurier played more matches last season doesn´t change the fact that his contribution per game was his best since the 2013-14 season, playing for Tolouse.

About Jose being the man for the job - or not. Again, you basically agreed with my point. We don´t have enough facts to answer this question yet. The fact that you believe he is not right for us based on his previous experiences is not different at all from someone who believes in the opposite - that he will be the man for Tottenham, based on his previous successful experiences. As I was answering someone else, I´m not saying Jose is good now/right for Tottenham because he´s been good for other clubs. I´m saying there wasn´t enough time to judge him, so to back him or to criticize him, please, let´s use the current facts - and not a book wrote in 2011.

 

[sammyspurs]

What’s Fat Sam up to these days.

Like seriously

 

[halothagod]

I think you are right in terms of competing for a championship, the players are not good enough. But changing Mourinho for a manager that doesn't set up to play for a 0-0 draw and focus so much on negative tactics could definitely improve the club for the short term.

For example if instead of what we put out yesterday we went with something like:

Lloris
Doherty-Toby-Sanchez-Davies
PEH-Ndombele
Son-Alli-Bergwijn
Kane
​

We are likely in a much better position to threaten Everton. I would persoanlly take Alli out but we really don't have a great option for him. Maybe move into a 4-4-2 with Son and Kane up front and Bergwijn and Lamela on the wings.

Having a manager that doesn't insist on keeping Davies at LB to fit a silly LB does nothing formation would immediately help us be more competitive.

And what if the team you put out still played like the team did yesterday? I have seen Sanchez next to Toby and they still conceded. Ndombele is Ndombele. Only case you can make is Steven for Lucas, but we have also seen that last season. So it’s nothing revolutionary. There just is a mentality problem at the club.

 

[Clynelish]

What’s Fat Sam up to these days.

Like seriously

Watching football, drinking and eating in the pub mainly.

And why not?

 

[Igula]

And what if the team you put out still played like the team did yesterday? I have seen Sanchez next to Toby and they still conceded. Ndombele is Ndombele. Only case you can make is Steven for Lucas, but we have also seen that last season. So it’s nothing revolutionary. There just is a mentality problem at the club.

What if they don't?

I am talking about playing better players over weaker players. I guess it could not work out but more often than not playing your best players is the best plan.

I also said it would be a short term fix to improve the squad not a solution, I have been as loud as anyone about the squad needing a major overhaul.

I am not sure about a mentality problem that seems like a cop out. There is a lack of talent problem in the squad and management. We can change the mentality all we want if we don't bring in talent it won't mean shit.