Which is exactly how we conceded the goal
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Which is exactly how we conceded the goal
Did you see anything in the first half that suggested that 11 could pull it out of the bag? They’d already wasted 45 minutes so it would be a big gamble to possibly waste another 15 or 20?
It would have been great to have seen them turn it around, but who had the character to do that?
This forum really does overrate the words that come out of the managers mouth In press conferences and heavily edited TV shows. Haven’t been here for years like some others but there were debates on Poch’s rhetoric as there now is on Jose’s. I genuinely couldn’t give 2 shits, Ranieri spoke like a deluded drug addict and won the league. What we hear our manager say is pretty irrelevant against the tactics and training he is giving to the team.
I had no real issue with the team selection or his comments afterwards, it’s more about his tactical setup.
We’ve looked good in patches and mediocre in others this season. There’s still a lot of question marks and a lot of work to be done,
I don’t think it’s unfair to say that at this point.....
A gamble agreed but a gamble that he could afford to take with 4 more games to play in the group.
But what is he saying to lo celso now you're just going to be a bit part player?
The players that got taken off watched the players that replaced them not do any better really
I just think it will do more harm then good but that's just my opinion I guess we will see with his line up in the next europa league game
If the bolded is true I would have liked to hear Jose say that so it didn't seem like he was lumping them in with the others in terms of his criticism.
Also if Bale was kept on in favor of Vinicius for fitness reasons, that is an awful decision by Jose.
Well he took off the two players that did look like they could pull it out of the bag and left on a number of guys that were the worst players in the first half, seems like a bigger gamble to keep the players that had shown they weren't up for it on and take off the guys that wanted to win off.
I’ve assumed that GLC was pulled for injury risk? He only did a few minutes the game before so is being eased back in?
Are you talking about people on here or Spurs fans in general? I haven't seen anyone on here wanting him to fail to prove a point.
As for his time here last season was pretty underwhelming and this season has been very up and down, with some positives and also some worrying signs as well. I think he has been given a lot more credit than most would have been if they had the same results, and style of play, because he is a supposed "serial winner", so many fans justify his tactics/decisions with the idea that it will lead to us winning.
That was a lot more ranty and reactive than anything I posted.
It's not about their public persona or ego, it's about getting the best out of them and you don't do that by publicly admonishing people, not in any workplace not just football. Reactive fans may like the binary, black and white, ' they're not trying, call 'em out bollocks ' but people are a lot more complex than that and as I said there are a myriad of reasons for players having bad games. Not trying is rarely one of them.
Jose doesn't do this because it helps him win more, he does this because that's who he is as a person, defensive, self centred and unwilling to take criticism. We all have egos, how we deal with them defines who we are.
Fergie was a winner, had a big ego and dominated his squad with an iron will - but when interviewed he didn't throw his players under the bus and refused to criticize them publicly whilst they were at the club. Behind closed doors he could and would brutalize them in a way Jose doesn't but he dealt with that away from the press. The players respected him as a result and he had longevity as a result. Jose never has and never will.
Jose is ours and I hope we win the lot with him here but I'm not going to defend behaviour that I think is counter intuitive when trying to get the best out of people and thought that way when he was at other clubs. He wins because he's driven and relentless and desperate to win at almost all costs, not because he slags the team off publicly. It's a reaction to criticism, he deflects, I don't even think it's calculated - it's reactive and part of what drives him as a person, the need to prove others wrong.
Btw I never said anyone should be pampered (I think quite the opposite), didn't mention a favourite player (but if you're talking about Alli he's not even in my top 10 in the current squad) and certainly don't think 'winners' have a tendency to slag their players off publicly. Fergie, Klopp, Pep are 3 examples straight off the top of my head.
I guess it’s one of those ones where you know if you’ve played well or not? Jose may have spoken to players privately, who knows? I’m sure we can all agree the whole 90 was pretty rough, tho - whichever players were on the pitch.
I’ve made the comments about Bale because that seems to make sense to me as he was in the CF position for the few minutes he was on in the 2nd half, just to run around. A fully fit Bale (whatever that now looks like) may be as influential as a fully-fit Kane or Son or N’Dombele. So, across the season, will likely gain more points than a happy second-striker (assuming no injuries etc).
Bad game to watch, tho and I’m just second guessing. To me, it makes sense, but clearly not to many others.
With Bale I am not sure I like taking off arguably our most effective player to that point in a game we are losing to try and improve Bale's fitness. If we were up by a goal, or maybe even tied sure, but Bale was completely ineffective and we had enough passengers as it was in the first half.
He instigated the mass panic substitutions though which I thought was an over reaction, yes we weren't great but it's not like we played any better second half and at 1-0 down was there really any need for it? Chew their bollocks off at half time by all means, let them know their careers are on the line but then give em a chance to rectify it for 10 minutes.
Even tactically it didn't make much sense, at 1 - 0 up they were gonna shell and counter attack, I didn't think bringing Carlos off for Son was gonna help us open up their defense, I also thought he bottled taking Bale off who'd done fuck all.
At half time he helped create a narrative by making 4 subs that did fuck all to change the game.
We don't know, but I would assume the same. Otherwise, I think he would have kept GLC and subbed Dele with Sissoko, allowing GLC to play a bit more advanced and free . Only a guess, of course
You don't think for example those comments could equally fit Bale's fitness scenario? ...Or like I said, be a call back to the times he was previously scrutinised about the absense of TN & GLC? ....Or the quotes thatMr. Voldemort provided above about Stevie?
Of course Dele was one of the number, but why would he make the 11 comment if he was merely having a swipe at Dele? ...This is Jose afterall; he's not shy of speaking his mind is he?
Yeah, I saw those comments and I am still confident that was Jose taking a shot at Dele. He has been clear since day one that he didn't like Dele's energy and he has been absent from many squads this year. The same cannot be said about the rest, even Steven.
But either way, I just don't get motivated by managers, bosses and the like that speak this way. It's a complete turnoff and that is why I have such an issue with it.
This is probably why I am making 35k a year, sit on a forum and complain, while these youngins are making millions playing for one of the biggest clubs in England. They can take the criticism, I curl up into a ball and cry.
Hugo's been good since his injury as an aside.
We should start a thread on not trying, it's quite a complex subject. Lacking motivation, confidence, fitness, trust in self and others. It's purely psychological if you assume a player is physically fit isn't it?
I don't believe any of our players walked out their last night and thought ' na can't be arsed tonight '. They wouldn't have made it as pros for a start. But some of the above play a part and a managers job is to work out each individual and what gets the best out of them. Gordon Strachan once described Fergie as the best psychologist he ever met. Bollocking some, not bollocking others in essence.
He'd bollock Rooney over something that was really intended for Nani knowing that Nani would take it on board that way. That's clever if it works which is all that counts.
The direct route may appeal when dealing with people but it's not always the best route - we know this from our own relationships, it's not any different for footballers.
I don't believe that either, and I don't agree with comments that say that the players in the first half didn't look motivated. To me they looked too often clueless or lost in communication with each other. They looked like they have hardly played together, which is true and we must accept that.
I feel that gradually all this will disappear, for a simple reason: it happened also to the first team. In many games last year (especially against teams who park the bus) they looked like they needed to stop and think about what to do with the ball instead of passing seemlessly between each other, making our whole game ponderous and predictable. This in part happened against Everton and in the first half against Soton. After that, everything started to work pretty well and we have seen some amazing stuff
I see the team were bad in the first half but I presume they had practiced tactics. 4 changes at half time was too much and a bit like friendlies multiple changes make it disjointed and even though Moura, Son & Lamela are used to playing together there seemed no real tactical plan.
I almost picked the same team as Mourinho and cannot therefore blame him for that but perhaps with hindsight Vinny, Bale, Dele & Bergwijn was a gamble as they have never played together.
On the basis Lo Celso was probably subbed either to keep him fresh, because of injury or because of lack of freshness, then he and Dele should have been the only half time changes. 2 more on the hour and keeping the final change back in case of injury.
Vinny played 90 mins last week and I would have given him longer with Son and others.
It almost is that Mourinho wants to hit the headlines with 4 subs at H/t. Had it have worked it would have been all about how he won the match but it didn't.
I almost picked the same team as Mourinho and cannot therefore blame him for that but perhaps with hindsight Vinny, Bale, Dele & Bergwijn was a gamble as they have never played together.
On the basis Lo Celso was probably subbed either to keep him fresh, because of injury or because of lack of freshness, then he and Dele should have been the only half time changes. 2 more on the hour and keeping the final change back in case of injury.
Vinny played 90 mins last week and I would have given him longer with Son and others.
It almost is that Mourinho wants to hit the headlines with 4 subs at H/t. Had it have worked it would have been all about how he won the match but it didn't.
I know it was a mistake writing this after the shit Antwerp game. I should have written it after the United game instead.
I hope I'm wrong, we'll see in a couple of months. I'm afraid that the only thing about Mourinho is that he seems to be good with the players he like. And still must have some kind of pull in the transfer window. There is some more order to the defense in open play but at set pieces we're terrible. I'll comment what I wrote around Christmas and I promise to take it back if I see some kind of pattern in how we play with the ball.
What are some patterns of play that you see in other teams or managers?
If you look at teams like Bayern München, Liverpool and City. They attack in similar ways, there is a pattern in how transition from defence to attack. How they defend. Where and when they take chances and risk losing the ball and then defend aggressively, because when you win it back in those areas it's easier to create chances. Spurs on the other hand, press hard sometimes, backs of in other, plays through midfield some games and hoofs it in other. Very little movement in possession. It's hard to explain patterns I think. But I'm not seeing clear patterns in how Spurs play. If this is because we always adopt to how the opposition plays or if it's because we lack a "pattern" I don't know. Shit, it's hard to explain.