Levy / ENIC

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Five said:
FSG does not buy sports clubs as a philanthropist; it works to increase their financial value. But it has taken no money out of Liverpool in nine years, except a modest £10 million repayment of £110 million loaned for the building of the main stand. The Glazers’ takeover, designed by Woodward to load £540 million borrowings on a debt-free club, has since cost more than £1 billion in interest, fees, refinancing penalties and other dead money.

www.irishtimes.com

Half a billion debt but dividends galore: the Glazers’ legacy at Manchester United

The contrast with Liverpool’s American owners’ investment in the club is stark
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
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The Glaziers have done fucking well out of Man Utd. All the grief Levy gets and it’s not a patch on what the Man Utd owners have done to their club. They’ve made a fortune. No point selling either, just take the money.
 
pipes said:
I’m interested in who these club owners are that stick their own money into their clubs:

Man City - has put in fortunes. So much that they are now banned from Europe. Good plan.

Liverpool - FSG loaned the club money to help build the stand a couple of years back. Money that is being paid back with interest.

Chelsea - when did Abramovich last cough up some of his own cash? Ten years ago?

Man Utd - bought by the Glazers and saddled with hundreds of millions of debt

Woolwich - Kronke has never put a single penny in.

Wolves, Everton, Sunderland - cash put in by owners, but hardly holding positions in world football we aspire to

Which success story above should we be following?
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Chelsea - owes Abramovich £1.75 BILLION.
 
pipes said:
The £10m is the first payment on the loan on work that was signed off on just over a year ago, so that makes sense. Payments are going to vary year on year depending on money in the bank.

And the only reason this was an FSG loan is that they get a lower rate of interest than Liverpool would, saving a couple of million a year. But what was great business sense was doing the stand as their match day revenues are up from £62m to £81m. Gives us an idea of our increased revenues once we have a full season in the new stadium.
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Shut up, and like my post, pipes .

I would take FSG all day long. The Glaziers are riding the bejaysus out of Utd.
 
pipes said:
I’m interested in who these club owners are that stick their own money into their clubs:

Man City - has put in fortunes. So much that they are now banned from Europe. Good plan.

Liverpool - FSG loaned the club money to help build the stand a couple of years back. Money that is being paid back with interest.

Chelsea - when did Abramovich last cough up some of his own cash? Ten years ago?

Man Utd - bought by the Glazers and saddled with hundreds of millions of debt

Woolwich - Kronke has never put a single penny in.

Wolves, Everton, Sunderland - cash put in by owners, but hardly holding positions in world football we aspire to

Which success story above should we be following?
Click to expand...

Man City and Chelsea - They have won multiple trophies over the years. This CL ban means fuckall in the grand scheme of things. Overall these clubs have leapfrogged the mid-table and accelerated a growth that is taking us over a decade to achieve.

Abramovich(thecunt) doesn't need to spend any more money because Chelsea are stable now, as long as the loan doesn't have to be paid back. Both City and Chelsea have developed some of the best academies in the world now. Couple of seasons ago Chelsea had 30-35 youngster on loan playing for relatively big clubs around Europe. Later on somehow these players sold of absurd amounts. Meanwhile we can barely get 1-2 of our academy players to start for teams like Leeds...

We can all argue about ethics and the morality of this but in the last 10 years their fans celebrated and cheered more than I have. All I can be is 'proud' of my club right now.

Spurs are building a solid foundation. We are heading in the right direction, but unfortunately we are being leapfrogged by oil-money. As tragic as it sounds we didn't win a single fucking trophy while being one of the best and most consistent teams for 2-3 seasons. Our team was ran ragged while giving 110% and punching way above their weight. We were in a delicate situation where every component of our club clicked for a bit and our owners where afraid to destabilise it with a new purchase. It backfired and blew up in our face.

Liv/Utd/Arse are not worth comparing because they have been ahead of us from the start, unless we go back to the 60s . These teams had success way before the oil-money showed up.+ I dont give a shit about them.
 
John Thomas said:
If / when Kane is sold, I guarentee the Cult of Levy will either support it, justify it, or at least find some way to excuse it.

Just like when, at the start of January, many of them said failing to bring in a striker following Kane's injury would be inexcusable.
When the inexcusable materialised, they found excuses. Some even blamed Mourinho!!!

:mourweird:
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Not sure who the cult of Levy is but I will not support the sale of Kane anymore than I supported the sale of Berbatov or Bale. I did support the Furloughing because it kept vital funds within the club.
 
Gnutmi said:
Man City and Chelsea - They have won multiple trophies over the years. This CL ban means fuckall in the grand scheme of things. Overall these clubs have leapfrogged the mid-table and accelerated a growth that is taking us over a decade to achieve.

Abramovich(thecunt) doesn't need to spend any more money because Chelsea are stable now, as long as the loan doesn't have to be paid back. Both City and Chelsea have developed some of the best academies in the world now. Couple of seasons ago Chelsea had 30-35 youngster on loan playing for relatively big clubs around Europe. Later on somehow these players sold of absurd amounts. Meanwhile we can barely get 1-2 of our academy players to start for teams like Leeds...

We can all argue about ethics and the morality of this but in the last 10 years their fans celebrated and cheered more than I have. All I can be is 'proud' of my club right now.

Spurs are building a solid foundation. We are heading in the right direction, but unfortunately we are being leapfrogged by oil-money. As tragic as it sounds we didn't win a single fucking trophy while being one of the best and most consistent teams for 2-3 seasons. Our team was ran ragged while giving 110% and punching way above their weight. We were in a delicate situation where every component of our club clicked for a bit and our owners where afraid to destabilise it with a new purchase. It backfired and blew up in our face.

Liv/Utd/Arse are not worth comparing because they have been ahead of us from the start, unless we go back to the 60s . These teams had success way before the oil-money showed up.+ I dont give a shit about them.
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All very fair. And to be clear, I’ve no issue with oil money. As I’ve said, I don’t think you can find a mega rich person with clean hands.

Man City definitely won the lottery. New stadium for about 8p and an entire city to fund them. I’d love to have won that much recently and I’d not give a shite if it was bought or “done the right way”. In the same way that if we won a cup with six defensive 1-0 wins, I’d be well up for that too. The Tottenham Way? The fuck is that?

One of my main reasons to defend ENIC lies in the stories of the other 80 odd sides in England and the other 100 odd top flight sides in the big euro leagues. Few have success. Rarer still is ongoing success. And rarer even still is an owner who ponies up his own cash to make it happen. The chances of us getting an owner like that are minuscule, so what we have isn’t really that bad.
 
pipes said:
I’ve liked it. Love it when you are masterful.

Don’t think FSG are hugely different from ENIC really. But I’m maybe missing something.
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I'm not saying they are better owners than ENIC. I like how they run their club. Most owners are a nightmare, IMO. We could be a lot worse off. But if I got to spend a night on Joe's yacht, I would be right in his hairy lughole about taking Levy off anything to do with players.
 
Five said:
I'm not saying they are better owners than ENIC. I like how they run their club. Most owners are a nightmare, IMO. We could be a lot worse off. But if I got to spend a night on Joe's yacht, I would be right in his hairy lughole about taking Levy off anything to do with players.
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Agreed, then changed to Like.

I love Levy being in charge of price negotiations. I do want a much improved scouting setup though.

This whole Kane to Man Utd Neil Ashton bullshit is being shot down by everyone else because it’s well known that Man Utd are terrified of dealing with Levy as they get their pants pulled down. I like that.
 
Brian Fantana said:
Hopefully Lewis buys another yacht later this year just to really piss off the angry people. Doesn’t matter what he does with his money. He can buy a yacht, another Hockney, anything. It’s got nothing to do with us. He’s only put £20 million in since ENIC bought the club and taken nothing out. The club is run to be self efficient, will this virus change that, probably not. But he’s not going to put money in.
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Taken nothing out????????????
:levylol::levylol::levylol::levylol::dawsonlol:
 
Five said:
I'm not saying they are better owners than ENIC. I like how they run their club. Most owners are a nightmare, IMO. We could be a lot worse off. But if I got to spend a night on Joe's yacht, I would be right in his hairy lughole about taking Levy off anything to do with players.
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Only difference between FSG and ENIC is Liverpool, recently, have been far better in scouting. The players they bought and/or developed with the proceeds of their mega-sales (Coutinho and Suarez) have been much more successful than those we bought with our sales windfalls.

Off the field, ENIC have been much more successful. They built a stand, we built a stadium and a training complex whilst largely catching them up in revenue.

If over the years players like Eriksen, Lamela, Sissoko, Aurier had matched the hopes when signed then things would likely be very different. Liverpool had a high enough success rate on mid-level players that they tossed the dice out on buying Klopp (remember when we all called him Flopp, though? It wasn't very long ago the Liverpool and FSG everyone is fawning over now was the butt of all the jokes) some big shiny toys at precisely the right time.
 
Brian Fantana said:
The Glaziers have done fucking well out of Man Utd. All the grief Levy gets and it’s not a patch on what the Man Utd owners have done to their club. They’ve made a fortune. No point selling either, just take the money.
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Not quite sure what your point is considering pretty much every Man Utd fan wants the Glazers out! Even though they've won far far more in 15 years then ENIC's paltry 1 league cup in 20!
 
pipes said:
Agreed, then changed to Like.

I love Levy being in charge of price negotiations. I do want a much improved scouting setup though.

This whole Kane to Man Utd Neil Ashton bullshit is being shot down by everyone else because it’s well known that Man Utd are terrified of dealing with Levy as they get their pants pulled down. I like that.
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I think he is a large part of the reason we struggle to shift players we don't want, makes an ordeal out of buying players, and places daft valuations on important players who want to leave.
 
Brian Fantana said:
I was just saying it’s been a good deal for them. Better than buying us has been for enic by a country mile.
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ENIC purchased a sleeping giant for relative peanuts just before the PL cash bonanaza materialised. They've seen the value of their asset increase probably 50 fold since.
They're in it for the money, mate. And they're making a mint.
If they're in for the glory then they've failed fucking miserably.
 
John Thomas said:
If / when Kane is sold, I guarentee the Cult of Levy will either support it, justify it, or at least find some way to excuse it.

Just like when, at the start of January, many of them said failing to bring in a striker following Kane's injury would be inexcusable.
When the inexcusable materialised, they found excuses. Some even blamed Mourinho!!!

:mourweird:
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There's this exercise in management workshops for negotiation etc, also used in language classrooms. Two people debate some subject or other, it doesn't matter which. A has to be in favour of the idea, B against it. After a certain random time, a bell rings and they have to immediately swap over and argue the other side, mid-sentence if need be. And so on, back and forth.

That moment when those arguing the inexcusable, unforgivable position morphed seamlessly into the excusable and forgivable was just like that, there wasn't even a hiccup

Or as Groucho Marx once said, "These are my principles. If you don't like them... well, I have others"

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