Oliver Skipp

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
I'm up to the 85th minute of the BC/Norwich game.

I don't think Skipp is wonder bread, but I would much, much rather be watching him getting time in our team than a bunter like Sissoko. Skipp is much better technically, happy to take the ball on the half turn and try to face forwards, generally has awareness or tries to see what's around him (rather than no awareness and constantly just panicking and bunting backwards from whence the ball has come) and he will try to play vertically when it's on, occasionally taking a risk with this type of pass.

He is tenacious, but he lacks some physical qualities, he's not got the physique to bully or impose himself on duels and not got that Kante type dynamism either.

He's much more willing to show for the ball than someone like Sissoko, but I still think there are times when he could show more, be a bit more dynamic in his efforts to show.

In short I think his movement without the ball, when his team are in and out of possession could be a little sharper, but he's still better in that respect than Sissoko, and probably Winks. His reading and positional sense is very similar to Hojbjerg's, not perfect, not the zippiest, but better than Winks or Sissoko.

And some will say the physicality argument is why Sissoko would get picked, but I think this is utterly bogus because Sissoko doesn't use that physicality well, he can't jump, he's clumsy in the tackle not imposing, and he trundles around less smartly or dynamically than Skipp in defensive phases. And what Skipp does have is better physical balance which evens out some of the physique thing.

The hope is that'd he'll be able to assume a #6 role (or back-up for PEH in the current set up).....

Such an unfortunate waste of Sissoko bashing.
 
The hope is that'd he'll be able to assume a #6 role (or back-up for PEH in the current set up).....

Such an unfortunate waste of Sissoko bashing.

Sissoko is currently playing in our midfield, bashing it may be, but hard to avoid when he's there and effectively competing (or has previously and should be now) with Skipp for the same position on the pitch.

The point still stands, is Skipp the next big thing, probably not. Would I automatically swap PEH for Skipp, no. Would I swap him for Winks, maybe, probably. Would I for Sissoko, absofuckingloutely. And I have explained my reasoning.
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
Sissoko is currently playing in our midfield, bashing it may be, but hard to avoid when he's there and effectively competing (or has previously and should be now) with Skipp for the same position on the pitch.

The point still stands, is Skipp the next big thing, probably not. Would I automatically swap PEH for Skipp, no. Would I swap him for Winks, maybe, probably. Would I for Sissoko, absofuckingloutely. And I have explained my reasoning.

Naughty Blakey.
 
I'm up to the 85th minute of the BC/Norwich game.

I don't think Skipp is wonder bread, but I would much, much rather be watching him getting time in our team than a bunter like Sissoko. Skipp is much better technically, happy to take the ball on the half turn and try to face forwards, generally has awareness or tries to see what's around him (rather than no awareness and constantly just panicking and bunting backwards from whence the ball has come) and he will try to play vertically when it's on, occasionally taking a risk with this type of pass.

He is tenacious, but he lacks some physical qualities, he's not got the physique to bully or impose himself on duels and not got that Kante type dynamism either.

He's much more willing to show for the ball than someone like Sissoko, but I still think there are times when he could show more, be a bit more dynamic in his efforts to show.

In short I think his movement without the ball, when his team are in and out of possession could be a little sharper, but he's still better in that respect than Sissoko, and probably Winks. His reading and positional sense is very similar to Hojbjerg's, not perfect, not the zippiest, but better than Winks or Sissoko.

And some will say the physicality argument is why Sissoko would get picked, but I think this is utterly bogus because Sissoko doesn't use that physicality well, he can't jump, he's clumsy in the tackle not imposing, and he trundles around less smartly or dynamically than Skipp in defensive phases. And what Skipp does have is better physical balance which evens out some of the physique thing.

That’s exactly why this loan is perfect for him. Get a season of championship football under his belt, find out what it’s like to be a professional footballer and come back next season ready to fight for a starting spot alongside another new central midfielder when we’ve hopefully sold both of sissoko and winks. In a perfect world
 
agree these lads need to out on loan getting match time and playing men, there is no match experiance gained by sitting on the bench
will he get into the team next season maybe( sissoko will be a year old and value will be falling over the cliff so Levy might sell him)
this season we are lucky we have 25 man squad and these "EPL paid second 11 players" should be able to beat most of the teams we face in the early cup & EL match, (but they don't so why are they paid EPL wages"
 
Because mostly you are a real stickler for making the distinction between 8s and 6s yet when it suits (notably, in the case of Sissoko bashing) it magically all flies out the window.

Rubbish. My bashing of Sissoko has nothing to do with prescribing him a 6 or an 8, it's entirely to do with him being a totally inadequate footballer - particularly as a midfielder of any remit - technically, tactically, mentally and physically.

This comparison is totally valid as they are both being used as CM's in double pivots.

But even if we played a Cm3 system, and though Skipp would be classed more 6 and Sissoko more 8, in that set up, I'd still prefer Skipp out there in an 8 remit to Sissoko as well because he's simply a more competent "footballer" both with and without the ball.

You are also over simplifying the issue massively. I am not a "stickler" for just simply prescribing a number to players, if I have watched a player I will always try to give a descriptive evaluation to support an opinion of them. Midfielders are often hybrids in varying degrees on a sliding scale. You get 6's that are great footballers and 8's that are hard working and tenacious and lots of nuances in between.

And the notion of "number" becomes a bit less relevant when teams use them in double pivots when they ideally need both players to be varying degrees of multifunctional.

6 and 8 are just convenient shorthand that sometimes save you typing out a longer descriptive every time you talk about midfielders.

The most relevant point here is that both Sissoko and Skipp are being used in double pivots and being asked to do similar things, so the comparison is fair.
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
Rubbish. My bashing of Sissoko has nothing to do with prescribing him a 6 or an 8, it's entirely to do with him being a totally inadequate footballer - particularly as a midfielder of any remit - technically, tactically, mentally and physically.

This comparison is totally valid as they are both being used as CM's in double pivots.

But even if we played a Cm3 system, and though Skipp would be classed more 6 and Sissoko more 8, in that set up, I'd still prefer Skipp out there in an 8 remit to Sissoko as well because he's simply a more competent "footballer" both with and without the ball.

You are also over simplifying the issue massively. I am not a "stickler" for just simply prescribing a number to players, if I have watched a player I will always try to give a descriptive evaluation to support an opinion of them. Midfielders are often hybrids in varying degrees on a sliding scale. You get 6's that are great footballers and 8's that are hard working and tenacious and lots of nuances in between.

And the notion of "number" becomes a bit less relevant when teams use them in double pivots when they ideally need both players to be varying degrees of multifunctional.

6 and 8 are just convenient shorthand that sometimes save you typing out a longer descriptive every time you talk about midfielders.

The most relevant point here is that both Sissoko and Skipp are being used in double pivots and being asked to do similar things, so the comparison is fair.

6/DM/blah call it what you will....

6 (Vic/Dier) vs 8 (Dembele/Ndombele) etc.

The common position is that one hopes/expects Skipp to be a 6 for us.

Sissoko's never been that guy.

In the past you'd compare Sissoko to Eriksen positionally too if it meant getting your digs in on him.
 
6/DM/blah call it what you will....

6 (Vic/Dier) vs 8 (Dembele/Ndombele) etc.

The common position is that one hopes/expects Skipp to be a 6 for us.

Sissoko's never been that guy.

In the past you'd compare Sissoko to Eriksen positionally too if it meant getting your digs in on him.

When both were being used as lateral 8's I did. Sissoko is now being used as a double pivot CM. So, even if it's next to PEH, I would rather Skipp there in that double pivot than Sissoko. Is that really complicated?

But I'll make it real simple, so there's no numerical ambiguity to confuse you, even though I wouldn't normally want Eriksen in a double pivot (CM2) and I wouldn't necessarily want Skip as a lateral 8 with a more attacking remit, I would rather Eriksen or Skipp in any midfield remit than Sissoko, who is totally incompetent at either.

But unfortunately, until he actually does stop being picked for us in any type of midfield remit, and/or gets sold, I am forced to keep making these comparisons when discussing the personnel available for those positions. And Sissoko will never get anything less than the harshest critique from me because I think he's an atrocious footballer. But at least, as per the post you quoted originally, I will explain why in detail.
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
When both were being used as lateral 8's I did. Sissoko is now being used as a double pivot CM. So, even if it's next to PEH, I would rather Skipp there in that double pivot than Sissoko. Is that really complicated?

But I'll make it real simple, so there's no numerical ambiguity to confuse you, even though I wouldn't normally want Eriksen in a double pivot (CM2) and I wouldn't necessarily want Skip as a lateral 8 with a more attacking remit, I would rather Eriksen or Skipp in any midfield remit than Sissoko, who is totally incompetent at either.

But unfortunately, until he actually does stop being picked for us in any type of midfield remit, and/or gets sold, I am forced to keep making these comparisons when discussing the personnel available for those positions. And Sissoko will never get anything less than the harshest critique from me because I think he's an atrocious footballer. But at least, as per the post you quoted originally, I will explain why in detail.

Well aware of your feelings about Sissoko, Blakey..... No worries.
 
Good again today in a 1-0 victory against Swansea. Started every game for Norwich this season and they're a point off the top. Does for them what Hojbjerg does for us, basically. Delighted for him.
 
Good again today in a 1-0 victory against Swansea. Started every game for Norwich this season and they're a point off the top. Does for them what Hojbjerg does for us, basically. Delighted for him.
Very, very positive that he starts all the games for a side that is doing well!

Though small part of me would also want him to return say by end of Jan... after he has gotten 5 months of constant game time. Cause well, let's face it - having him in starting lineup instead of Sissoko could have massive upside. Actually someone who could tackle, have better technique and passing ability...

On the other hand if he can keep going for full season there, he'd get even more of the experience and skills + chance to play under the pressure when decisive games will come up.
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
Very, very positive that he starts all the games for a side that is doing well!

Though small part of me would also want him to return say by end of Jan... after he has gotten 5 months of constant game time. Cause well, let's face it - having him in starting lineup instead of Sissoko could have massive upside. Actually someone who could tackle, have better technique and passing ability...

On the other hand if he can keep going for full season there, he'd get even more of the experience and skills + chance to play under the pressure when decisive games will come up.

The latter for me.... It'll do him the world of good in the longer term. Afterall being a starter for us is another huge step up again.
 
Very, very positive that he starts all the games for a side that is doing well!

Though small part of me would also want him to return say by end of Jan... after he has gotten 5 months of constant game time. Cause well, let's face it - having him in starting lineup instead of Sissoko could have massive upside. Actually someone who could tackle, have better technique and passing ability...

On the other hand if he can keep going for full season there, he'd get even more of the experience and skills + chance to play under the pressure when decisive games will come up.

It’s best to let him have the full season. As you say, he needs to feel the pressure that comes at the end of the season. No point pulling him out before he can have his mettle tested properly.
 
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