Steven Bergwijn

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He’s out of form. He just turned 23. He was very good and more importantly looked like an intelligent player last season.

I’m not going to freak out over a handful of games. If he’s still out of form in January, then maybe we should be concerned.

remember that player like eriksen and Dembele needed a year or even two to start reaching their potential.
 
Airfixx said:
He got injured not long after Sonny, mate... Another who was projected to be out until after the (original) end of the season.

Aside from the United goal; he subsequently struggled after lockdown (not helped by being played at CAM a few times IMO), but what's startling to me is that he looks so fucking sluggish this season... One occasion tonight you could tell he tried to sprint but there was just nothing there.

There's every chance he will get back on track, but he really needs to seize what he can of these EL games otherwise he'll just be consigned to battling with Lamela & Lucas & Clarke for game-time and likely drift even further off par.
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Yeah, just saw that around the 34' mark - he literally couldn't even try to sprint, looked like he was struggling to catch his breath. If he's not match fit then he shouldn't play, he's doing himself and the team no favors right now - main job should be to get back into shape.

He's young and has shown glimpses of intelligence so I'm willing to give him time, but I think he needs to stay out of the spotlight atm. I'd rather give Clarke more game time if he's impressing so much in training. Honestly if we'd thrown the kids on I think we would've seen a better performance, they're at least willing to run about a bit.
 
TonySoprano said:
He looks bulkier and i can't be sure it's muscle or just a bit of excess timber. I don't see him looking as explosive as he did last year. Either way he's not been anywhere near as potent and doesn't look a goal threat currently.
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It would appear that it is excess timber. Didn’t get a close look at him yesterday but a few weeks ago the back of his head and neck looked that of an entrant to The World’s Strongest Man.
 
skyfarer said:
Yeah, just saw that around the 34' mark - he literally couldn't even try to sprint, looked like he was struggling to catch his breath. If he's not match fit then he shouldn't play, he's doing himself and the team no favors right now - main job should be to get back into shape.

He's young and has shown glimpses of intelligence so I'm willing to give him time, but I think he needs to stay out of the spotlight atm. I'd rather give Clarke more game time if he's impressing so much in training. Honestly if we'd thrown the kids on I think we would've seen a better performance, they're at least willing to run about a bit.
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Pretty sure we were going to see Clarke come in later on if our veterans didn't bring on such a disastrous first half. Sad day for him
 
He seemed to work out the hardest during the end of season break when the rest of the team were partying on beaches and yachts..he was putting himself through the paces in the gym
 
skyfarer said:
Yeah, just saw that around the 34' mark - he literally couldn't even try to sprint, looked like he was struggling to catch his breath. If he's not match fit then he shouldn't play, he's doing himself and the team no favors right now - main job should be to get back into shape.

He's young and has shown glimpses of intelligence so I'm willing to give him time, but I think he needs to stay out of the spotlight atm. I'd rather give Clarke more game time if he's impressing so much in training. Honestly if we'd thrown the kids on I think we would've seen a better performance, they're at least willing to run about a bit.
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If buts and maybes were pots and pans mate, we'd all be tin merchants.
 
Yid_1984 said:
He seemed to work out the hardest during the end of season break when the rest of the team were partying on beaches and yachts..he was putting himself through the paces in the gym
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I saw that as well so odd that he should now look so slow. I wonder if he's tried to bulk and put on fat with the muscle which has just slowed him down and impacted his cardiovascular fitness? That's not unusual.

I don't know if the gym work he was doing was supervised as part of a training program the club had given him or if he was just doing his own thing. Either way it's just speculation but his body definitely looks bulkier than previously to me.
 
bonaspur23 said:
He’s out of form. He just turned 23. He was very good and more importantly looked like an intelligent player last season.

I’m not going to freak out over a handful of games. If he’s still out of form in January, then maybe we should be concerned.

remember that player like eriksen and Dembele needed a year or even two to start reaching their potential.
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Did I miss when he was good. He has had loads of games yet he cannotdisplace the unpopular Moura, who I have always supported because he works so hard without the ball and scores important goals.
Moura is way ahead of this Muppet!
 
Paul Gascoigne said:
Did I miss when he was good. He has had loads of games yet he cannotdisplace the unpopular Moura, who I have always supported because he works so hard without the ball and scores important goals.
Moura is way ahead of this Muppet!
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Ndombele could barely displace Sissoko or Winks in his first 10 months either.

Should we have gave up on him too?
 
Totti said:
Ndombele could barely displace Sissoko or Winks in his first 10 months either.

Should we have gave up on him too?
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He was not and probably still isn't 100% fit, Bergy should have been the star of the show against Antwerp, but simply wasn't. What was his excuse this week.
Guaranteed he won't be in the team on Sunday.
I feel sorry for him that Jose should never have said he wasn't his choice but .....
 
Not buying on the Bergwijn doubt. Talented young player, a bit stop start for him with us but he's provided several moments of real quality in his first few months at the club. Confidence seems a bit low, doesn't seem to be in great shape at the moment, but I'll be reserving serious judgment on him for now. Can take players a while to find their feet at the top level, as we all know.
 
Paul Gascoigne said:
He was not and probably still isn't 100% fit, Bergy should have been the star of the show against Antwerp, but simply wasn't. What was his excuse this week.
Guaranteed he won't be in the team on Sunday.
I feel sorry for him that Jose should never have said he wasn't his choice but .....
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Bergwijn missed nearly 3 months due to injury. That's nearly a third of his time here. Whilst having little niggly injuries throughout.

He's just turned 23.
 
Doc said:
Not buying on the Bergwijn doubt. Talented young player, a bit stop start for him with us but he's provided several moments of real quality in his first few months at the club. Confidence seems a bit low, doesn't seem to be in great shape at the moment, but I'll be reserving serious judgment on him for now. Can take players a while to find their feet at the top level, as we all know.
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Or is he yet another player from Dutch football who looked good there ?
 
Paul Gascoigne said:
Or is he yet another player from Dutch football who looked good there ?
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May turn out to be. Lots of good players from that league too, though. But he came to us in match shape and had a great game vs City (and scored a great goal) .. had some positive performances in a fairly bleh team with a poorly functioning midfield. Think he became fatigued quickly with PL intensity, teams injury crisis and midweek CL involvement. A few injuries. Good goal vs United. Sporadic involvement after this, but not great when played. Okay in Europa qualification and vs Lask, poor vs Newcastle, decent vs WHU(came off with Ndombele, we lost grip of the game and leave in 3 goals), since that game he's had a slight injury and a poor 45 minutes in a poor team performance vs Antwerp. Regularly involved in a decent Dutch squad with some good performances at that level. He can have a great touch, passes well, crosses well, can keep possession well, has had good ability at times running with the ball. Can also have a poor touch, slow reactions, lack of character/personality in his play, takes easy option, at times poor physically.

The schedule for top PL teams is no joke these days, players are flogged with the intensity of schedule and on-field action. I have doubts about him as well, having watched every game he's played for us, but he's shown enough ability for me to give the guy this season to physically adapt to what's required of players at this level before I lose faith in him. I think his biggest issue is physical condition and the lack of confidence that comes with that.

Sorry, that was longer than intended.
 
Doc said:
May turn out to be. Lots of good players from that league too, though. But he came to us in match shape and had a great game vs City (and scored a great goal) .. had some positive performances in a fairly bleh team with a poorly functioning midfield. Think he became fatigued quickly with PL intensity, teams injury crisis and midweek CL involvement. A few injuries. Good goal vs United. Sporadic involvement after this, but not great when played. Okay in Europa qualification and vs Lask, poor vs Newcastle, decent vs WHU(came off with Ndombele, we lost grip of the game and leave in 3 goals), since that game he's had a slight injury and a poor 45 minutes in a poor team performance vs Antwerp. Regularly involved in a decent Dutch squad with some good performances at that level. He can have a great touch, passes well, crosses well, can keep possession well, has had good ability at times running with the ball. Can also have a poor touch, slow reactions, lack of character/personality in his play, takes easy option, at times poor physically.

The schedule for top PL teams is no joke these days, players are flogged with the intensity of schedule and on-field action. I have doubts about him as well, having watched every game he's played for us, but he's shown enough ability for me to give the guy this season to physically adapt to what's required of players at this level before I lose faith in him. I think his biggest issue is physical condition and the lack of confidence that comes with that.

Sorry, that was longer than intended.
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Good post.
We looked at Under and Tielemanns but both ended up at Leicester.
I always say that someone who has played in our league is worth double.
For me we missed a talent with Doucoure going to Everton
 
I was listening to that former Apprentice winner chap on Last Word on Spurs the other day, and he made a very good point about getting behind the players, doubly so in this strange age when we're not able to support them in person. Ok, he was referring to Winks, who has been a bit trying of late, but he's right that this is a rather toxic age when it only takes a few twitter posts to blow things up. I'm getting guilty of it myself. It's nefariously contagious.

I don't remember crapping so much on players in bygone years, even if they had ropey games. Ok, when it went on and on things got sour but generally we did get behind the players to try and lift them back up.

Bergwijn is still relatively fresh and he's been out injured. And he has talent. I say get behind him and give him some encouragement to help him rise up and conquer the pitch.
 
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