Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

[RESPECT THE COCK]

Apparently Mourinho wants Godin...

I am pretty despondent about shit like this now. Sure we made mistakes in the market, but a few years ago we were at least mainly making them for the right reasons. Buck for buck we probably had one of the better transfer policies 10-5 years ago, in terms of value hunting, it's what helped us climb the greasy pole.

We are one of the first to adopt the DOf model.

We seem to have moved in the opposite direction, and now everywhere I look everyone else is doing smarter business, and we are sliding back down that pole.

I liked the logic of the people we signed in the summer, but we ignored absolutely glaring deficiencies, then spent 30m on another fucking dimwit athlete winger in January. The very last thing we needed.

And Mourinho is hardly the guy to be cheer leading value investment with development potential upside.

I have seen the Godin story and I don't believe it. But I believe our interest in Willian is very real, and I am very concerned for the direction of the club in terms of the names we are hearing.

I have no confidence that next season will even go ahead on account of this blasted coronavirus. But if it does, and if we continue to recruit badly and Mourinho is still in charge, I think the outlook is relatively bleak.

 

[todd1882]

Firstly, when it comes to recruitment, Everything we've read and heard suggests the recruitment analysts and scouts almost certainly drove the interest in Fekir more than Klopp.

Jesus you are talking shit BC. You can just about tease effects of one from another in any instances can't you? I do not accept your premise.

I thought you valued intellectual honesty.

I do. And I appreciate it when I encounter a like-minded soul. And it is rarely if ever found in the recalcitrant. Now define it for me instead of just throwing it around like you know WTF you are talking about. You want this, let's have it. Now define it and we can show how frequently you have used it incorrectly such as to show you have no fucking idea what you are talking about and are just spouting bollocks like your 'brains' argument. And when you are done then clearly display how I was being 'intellectually dishonest' for the whole class to see. We'll wait BC.

You know the summer before he was valued at way more than 20m. Most reports have the fee closer to 60m Euro (52/53m GB)

A player is worth what someone will and does pay for their services. Period. End of story. Fact. Everything else is essentially someone sticking their finger in the wind and gauging the wind. Fact. But they didn't pay it. Fact.

And again, he's not there BC so it doesn't matter the reasons. If they were willing and there was value they would have paid it. They also didn't go back in the year after for 20M BC. You keep failing to mention this fucking salient point. Oh, I know why because BC is talking bollocks and it doesn't fit that narrative.

And no I don't know that he would have been a success, I didn't claim that, my point was that one of the best recruitment machines in football right now, evaluated him and wanted to sign him for a team that has a very good footballing ethos.

Not utilizing the argument to attack your player evaluation BC though you were high on him...and like Fred he has his qualities and will probably come good somewhere if not there. I had little idea as I didn't watch RBL until Nagelsmann came. And again, my 'flop' was in scare quotes. I'm utilizing the argument to attack the reasoning behind player A is assoc with Rangnick, klopp has 2 rangnick players, klopp must like player A. or however it goes. Either way it's faulty.

I do love how you like to flit between the popular usage of 'know' and the more epistemic BC. As usual, when it suits you or the blivet full of horseshit you're trying to push uphill.

 

[bus-conductor]

Jesus you are talking shit BC. You can just about tease effects of one from another in any instances can't you? I do not accept your premise.

You do not accept the premise that Liverpool's recruitment apparatus drives transfer analysis more than Klopp does?

 

[todd1882]

No, it wasn't their actions, they tried to negotiate a reduction from the 60 to 40m, that was refused, that's why he didn't join. Not because Liverpool refused, otherwise why were they negotiating? They were negotiating because they still wanted the player, despite medical issues.

Did they pay it BC? Then their actions were the key. It matters not why. You are coming off as a desperate nutter arguing against facts. Nothing else matters other than they did not buy him in regards to this argument because those are the incontrovertible facts...and they didn't buy him the next year when he was a third of the price and still available.

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

Nabil Fekir's move to Liverpool 'collapsed due to brother-in-law'

Jean-Pierre Bernes had engaged with the Premier League giants over the course of four months to fashion a deal, before the switch surprisingly fell through at the 11th hour.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And on the day that the contract was supposed to be signed, at Rambouillet, we saw a lawyer and Nabil's brother-in-law arrived who said: "Stop everything, discussions have to start all over again." It was surreal. We thought that we were in a Walt Disney film.'

Fekir had undergone a medical at Liverpool in the summer of 2018, but the Anfield outfit pulled the plug on the deal after an issue with the attacking midfielder's knee surfaced.

And his ex-agent believes that it was because of the theatrics from Fekir's brother-in-law that the star hadn't instead moved to England.

He added: 'There were two elements. The player’s medical was negative and the second element was that when you want to sign for a big club like Liverpool, you need a certain attitude.

'When the Liverpool guys witnessed this cinema, they immediately… Sometimes when a player has an injury representatives can make an effort to make it work.

'The brother-in-law of Nabil all of a sudden acted like a player’s agent. He wanted a commission, everyone knows, it is fashionable these days.

'[Fekir] was on a cloud, he seemed to have transformed, he didn’t even greet the Liverpool representatives.

'He arrived after the medical, everyone was looking at each other, the Liverpool representatives were wondering where they were. I was ashamed.'

 

[bus-conductor]

I do. And I appreciate it when I encounter a like-minded soul. And it is rarely if ever found in the recalcitrant. Now define it for me instead of just throwing it around like you know WTF you are talking about. You want this, let's have it. Now define it and we can show how frequently you have used it incorrectly such as to show you have no fucking idea what you are talking about and are just spouting bollocks like your 'brains' argument. And when you are done then clearly display how I was being 'intellectually dishonest' for the whole class to see. We'll wait BC.

Is this where we going now your intellect/technique argument has disintegrated?

You say stuff you know to be bullshit Todd. And you think dressing it up in eruditely articulated condescension will stifle a counter argument. You get away with it plenty with the fuckwits, but as soon as I started calling you out on it, you decided to throw a fucking hissy fit at me and find some flimsy reason to call it me.

You knew the valuation of 20m of Fekir happened a year later, when he had run his contract down another year. If his valuation was 20m the year before then he'd be a Liverpool player, because they were prepared to pay double that. You know this.

I am still waiting for you to refute my brains argument with something approaching coherent contradiction, instead of the flouncy fucking vitriol you keep spewing.

Was David Bentley a more viable player than Eriksen, I mean he had better technique right?

 

[todd1882]

I only included stuff I did not like.

Glad you said this bc I watched and thought "and where's this good stuff he was talking about" in those 3 clips in the first vid.

I see Tanganga is making mistake after mistake. And what I am trying to figure out is how to accurately gauge the ceiling of a young CB. I will take any pointers.

Can't help you there my friend. Wish I could but it would not be my forte either (assuming I have any fortes that is). There are a few things I do look for in any defender and that is whether or not they see defense as a passive thing or active thing. And that doesn't mean being rash or aggressive like that Kabak attempt outside the box. It means that just because you are defending your goal you are not at an intrinsically at a disadvantage. I would explain more but A) it's off-topice and B) gotcha-boy is about looking for any red meat to sink his teeth into that 'makes his point'.

Do you think he takes unnecessary risks in possession? And if you do, why do you think he does? Does he get bored?

Carrying the ball out or in his passing? Either way I don't think JN puts too many constraints on him. He does have a lot of distribution responsibility. And no, I didn't miss the 'Supamecano'. Is that you or RBL fans? Unlike you I don't understand German, Klaus...didn't do the 'research'.

I am very disappointed because Gabriel is said to have passed Everton's medical and he can go there for €30m. He has interest from one other PL club (Leicester). He has not yet made a decision.

I think he is an animal. Phenomenal athlete. So strong, quick, great leap. He won't let you get turned. Covers the width of the pitch. Fully in control of his limbs.

Believe it or not I haven't paid attention to him in my many times watching Lille this year. Perhaps I should have. That 'in control of his limbs' thing is a novel concept for a young CB. Only 30M? So do you pay the extra 12M for 'surprising limbs'?

 

[bus-conductor]

Did they pay it BC? Then their actions were the key. It matters not why. You are coming off as a desperate nutter arguing against facts. Nothing else matters other than they did not buy him in regards to this argument because those are the incontrovertible facts...and they didn't buy him the next year when he was a third of the price and still available.

But that is not all that matters. What also matters is that a highly competent and efficient recruitment team wanted to buy him. And that matters because it tells us something, something quite important. That experts in their field evaluated and highly rated him. In fact, in the context of this argument it matters a whole lot more than what subsequently did or didn't happen.

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

Carrying the ball out or in his passing?

A little bit of both. I will get back to you on this.

And no, I didn't miss the 'Supamecano'. Is that you or RBL fans?

RBL fans, and I like it. I think he is their most gifted player.

That 'in control of his limbs' thing is a novel concept for a young CB. Only 30M? So do you pay the extra 12M for 'surprising limbs'?

Flailing limbs cost extra, yes.

 

[todd1882]

You do not accept the premise that Liverpool's recruitment apparatus drives transfer analysis more than Klopp does?

What I do not accept is this

Firstly, when it comes to recruitment, Everything we've read and heard suggests the recruitment analysts and scouts almost certainly drove the interest in Fekir more than Klopp.

We have no idea and no way of 'knowing' this information. What you have is a commonly held belief but we do not know, nor can we, the inner workings.

And BC, you can keep your responses in one post FFS instead of split up willy-nilly. It's easier to keep track of the BS you are spouting. I understand exactly why one would want not to do that but it would be appreciated.

 

[todd1882]

Is this where we going now your intellect/technique argument has disintegrated?

Is that how you see it, BC? Folks, we have found the modern day black knight. This is how I see it BC

And as usual you attempt to re-frame things because tis merely a flesh wound. The argument which you tried to change last night and are doing again is "brains" being our biggest issue. See? It started from here.

But he has a quick and composed brain. That’s our biggest problem. We have quick legs in attack, Son, Moura, Bergwijn- but no quick brains or composure, nowEriksen has gone.

Do you need the bookmarks again like last night to keep you on track?

You say stuff you know to be bullshit Todd.

Listen to the MF pot attempting to Trump his way out and accuse others of exactly what he has been snagged in multiple time by me doing. Or do you not remember admitting your argument 'might not completely be water-tight' or 'I may have taken license' FFS. Talk about mealy-mouthed words! You knew it wasn't 'water-tight' because I'd pulled you up on it multiple times previously. But you still spout it. I say nothing I know to be bullshit or do not believe. I also have never said anything I do not wholly believe to be true in order to influence opinion in a fashion that would otherwise not occur. So suck a dick for even suggesting it.

And you think dressing it up in eruditely articulated condescension will stifle a counter argument.

PLay the ball BC. I dress my argument up in considered reason. The fact you may find it stifling is your initial position was probably wobbly to begin with...like your 'brains' point.

You get away with it plenty with the fuckwits, but as soon as I started calling you out on it, you decided to throw a fucking hissy fit at me and find some flimsy reason to call it me.

Again with the pot. We are still waiting for the definition and the example of you calling me out...and now my hissy fit. Please show your work to the class.

What I don't like and you know it hence you have attempted this misdirection multiple times is rotten fuckers questioning my character and integrity. And as RESPECT THE COCK can and probably has told you and you know already which is why you have attempted it. But I decided to call you out all guns a-blazing now. Show your work BC!!!! Or is all you got accusation? I know the answer.

You knew the valuation of 20m of Fekir happened a year later, when he had run his contract down another year. If his valuation was 20m the year before then he'd be a Liverpool player, because they were prepared to pay double that. You know this.

What I know is that they did not pay it. That's what I, you and everyone else not in that room "knows". That's fact BC. I am speaking 100% truth and facts here. And to argue against that makes you look like a nutter.

Now if you'd like to go into reports and other things that's different to 'knowing'. This is simple stuff BC. But what we know is that they didn't buy him for 40M and didn't buy him for 20M the next year. Indisputable facts!!!! And since he was never purchased for those numbers you quote then he was, in fact, never valued at that price. What he has been valued at is 20-ish million which is what Betis has paid for his services. Why are you even arguing against this?

So, no, I won't admit or talk about anything around the margins of this point until you admit the facts before our very eye ie the sky is blue and Fekir's value/worth is 20M thus established by the market.

I am still waiting for you to refute my brains argument with something approaching coherent contradiction, instead of the flouncy fucking vitriol you keep spewing.

Was David Bentley a more viable player than Eriksen, I mean he had better technique right?

Damn, BC you are all over the place aren't you?

 

[bus-conductor]

Is that how you see it, BC? Folks, we have found the modern day black knight. This is how I see it BC

And as usual you attempt to re-frame things because tis merely a flesh wound. The argument which you tried to change last night and are doing again is "brains" being our biggest issue. See? It started from here.

Do you need the bookmarks again like last night to keep you on track?

Listen to the MF pot attempting to Trump his way out and accuse others of exactly what he has been snagged in multiple time by me doing. Or do you not remember admitting your argument 'might not completely be water-tight' or 'I may have taken license' FFS. Talk about mealy-mouthed words! You knew it wasn't 'water-tight' because I'd pulled you up on it multiple times previously. But you still spout it. I say nothing I know to be bullshit or do not believe. I also have never said anything I do not wholly believe to be true in order to influence opinion in a fashion that would otherwise not occur. So suck a dick for even suggesting it.

PLay the ball BC. I dress my argument up in considered reason. The fact you may find it stifling is your initial position was probably wobbly to begin with...like your 'brains' point.

Again with the pot. We are still waiting for the definition and the example of you calling me out...and now my hissy fit. Please show your work to the class.

What I don't like and you know it hence you have attempted this misdirection multiple times is rotten fuckers questioning my character and integrity. And as RESPECT THE COCK can and probably has told you and you know already which is why you have attempted it. But I decided to call you out all guns a-blazing now. Show your work BC!!!! Or is all you got accusation? I know the answer.

What I know is that they did not pay it. That's what I, you and everyone else not in that room "knows". That's fact BC. I am speaking 100% truth and facts here. And to argue against that makes you look like a nutter.

Now if you'd like to go into reports and other things that's different to 'knowing'. This is simple stuff BC. But what we know is that they didn't buy him for 40M and didn't buy him for 20M the next year. Indisputable facts!!!!

Damn, BC you are all over the place aren't you?

What we also know is one of the best recruitment teams rated him. We know that Todd, don't we.


Is this really all about me saying I thought a lack of brains in attacking areas was our biggest problem Todd?

Or is this about that discussion we had a while back which I called out some of your bollocks, including your continual deliberate misrepresenting of my and other views, that you had no reply for except to post some wanky bollocks about art that I was discussing with someone, and then PM me in a big huff and accuse me of intellectual dishonesty because I said Ndong had been shit at Sunderland in his last 6 months?

You remember the post Todd, where I called you out for claiming I'd "championed" players I hadn't. Like Dominic Ball. I asked you post examples of me saying the things you were alleging I'd said, but you couldn't. You, the great sayer "of only things you know to be true".

And I only said it was not totally water tight because I'd read it second hand (which I showed you evidence of) and not actually watched him play in League 1. I was being fucking magnanimous.

 

[bus-conductor]

Firstly it takes intelligence to understand the importance of technique and hone it. I do believe that the two facets are often intrinsically linked. But not always.

Secondly you can still have great technical ability but not be a great footballer. Look at someone like Adel Taraabt. Wonderful technical ability, lacking in intelligence to make it as an elite footballer. Ben Arfa. Or even your boy Renato Sanches, clearly has technical ability, what's let him down thus far is (footballing) intelligence, his decision making, especially under duress.

And footballing intelligence is not just about what you are doing when you actually have the ball at your feet. How do you ignore this? Reading the game/play and reacting whether you are in possession or out of possession requires intelligence. The more intelligent (in the footballing sense) the better you will read, interpret and react, the better your subsequent actions will be.

If you would like to discuss the "brains" issue, and this is what this is all about, you could always try responding to this post, which you seem to have overlooked, I'm sure not deliberately though...

 

[bus-conductor]

No one was sad he left Lyon for a reason.

Just out of interest, is this another one of those things you “know to be true”

Or is this a “Todd” known unknown?

 

[todd1882]

What we also know is one of the best recruitment teams rated him. We know that Todd, don't we.

With the info we have it is fair to conclude that they had an interest. But the level of that interest we do not know exactly but we do know that it didn't rise to 60M, or 40M, or 20M a year later. We know that.

Is this really all about me saying I thought a lack of brains in attacking areas was our biggest problem Todd?

It's what it's about BC. So keep it germane. So if you would like to demonstrate how I've been 'intellectually dishonest' in that debate, which you have accused me of twice, then show that evidence. The class is waiting. Beyond that feel free to keep it germane. I am.

Or is this about that discussion we had a while back which I called out some of your bollocks, including your continual deliberate misrepresenting of my and other views, that you had no reply for except to post some wanky bollocks about art that I was discussing with someone, and then PM me in a big huff and accuse me of intellectual dishonesty because I said Ndong had been shit at Sunderland in his last 6 months?

You remember the post Todd, where I called you out for claiming I'd "championed" players I hadn't. Like Dominic Ball. I asked you post examples of me saying the things you were alleging I'd said, but you couldn't. You, the great sayer "of only things you know to be true".

Keep it germane BC. I've no interest in arguing with you around the margins.

And I only said it was not totally water tight because I'd read it second hand (which I showed you evidence of) and not actually watched him play in League 1. I was being fucking magnanimous.

You weren't. Admitting the truth is not magnanimity, it's fucking honesty. And since the evidence was laid out for all to see it's pathetic that you would suggest it was anything other than craven to say it was more than that.

Being magnanimous would be to admit you are talking bollocks on this 'brains' shit instead of bringing all kinds of personal attacks in order to save face or to attempt to find a likeminded pile-on...you know, being of higher mind and character.

So, still waiting on your intellectual honesty definition and example from tonight and last night. Perhaps you could display your newfound understanding of magnanimity and spare us the trip down that particular rabbit hole.

If you would like to discuss the "brains" issue, and this is what this is all about, you could always try responding to this post, which you seem to have overlooked, I'm sure not deliberately though...

I need not take the road down every silly, desperate diversion you attempt to send me down in order to save your argument. Keep it germane.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Barcelona forward Philippe Coutinho's agent has denied the player holds a grudge against Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy after a proposed transfer fell through. Brazil's Coutinho, 27, is currently on loan at Bayern Munich. (Sunday Star)

 

[Brian Fantana]

Barcelona forward Philippe Coutinho's agent has denied the player holds a grudge against Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy after a proposed transfer fell through. Brazil's Coutinho, 27, is currently on loan at Bayern Munich. (Sunday Star)

Not sure why the papers are banging on with this non story. I can’t believe anyone really cares.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

Not sure why the papers are banging on with this non story. I can’t believe anyone really cares.

You'll care if we sign him.

 

[Jimmy G]

You'll care if we sign him.

But we all know we won't be signing him

 

[Brian Fantana]

You'll care if we sign him.

We won’t though will we. He’s on £300k a week and the loan fee is something stupid. No way we are paying both when he can’t play centre back, full back, defensive midfield or back up striker