Sheffield United v Tottenham Hotspur - July 2nd - 6pm(UK)

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Bazali said:
Agreed up until the Moura comment but I assume you’re joking 🙃?
One of the worst VAR decisions I’ve seen but doesn’t excuse the performance

I’ve been debating the same points with Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 as the players have to take responsibility imv but when we don’t have a leader on the field and a Captain that doesn’t say anything it doesn’t help matters
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We have a bad combination of a team playing well below what the fans expected and a manager that was hated by a lot of fans long before he ever came into the club. That is always going to result in a number of fans blaming the manager that they already hate over the players that they have cheered for. It is also always easier to envision it being the managers fault since replacing him is easy, replacing the squad is hard. Fans will always believe in the fantasy of we bring in the new coach and boom life is back to being grand.

With Jose there are fans who have said they will never support him. He could have come in won every game 12-0 while playing 11 strikers and there would be folks complaining about him being a dinosaur that has had the game pass him by and only plays negative football. The fact that team has continued its poor play from before Jose was even here makes it easier for them to jump down his throat and blame him for everything.
 
Igula said:
People complained about the approach and play that we had against WH so I am not sure that was the best game plan to go with again.
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"People"? Who give a fuck about "people"..... Jose is a big boy.

We won the WH game easily, FFS.

Also West Ham played much more passive so GLC didn't have to drop back so much because the others were able to move the ball much easier with minimal opposition.
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This is all pretty moot though as I'm not holding up the WH game as the only way for us to play.

What I would add though is that if you're concerned about a more progressive team then putting a less defensively sound player at the base of your MF isn't the most practical of solutions.

Watch Sissoko everytime he had the ball yesterday he was paniced and looking to move it as fast as possible. Our players can be dumb but they are not that dumb they realized it and avoided giving him the ball whenever they could so it always had to go to GLC.
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Well, Jose wasn't "forced" to play Sissoko so again, that's kinda moot in terms of the basis of my disagreement with you.

We are missing a DM and other CM right now and it showed yesterday. Ndombele maybe could fill that role but he has repeatedly shown he is not able, whether physically, mentally or both, do play for 90 minutes so Jose has limited options. So yes forced is the exact word to use when looking at the lack of options he had available.
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Right... So:

XXX / XXX / XXX / XXX
GLC
Sissoko
Bergwin
Luca / Son
Kane​

....Is the best way to break do a stubborn parked bus is it?

...A fucked up 4/1/1/1/2/1 formation almost exclusively reliant upon crosses from Aurier? (Which totally played into their hands)

...No other approaches could be taken in terms of selection and formation?

:pocheyes:
 
Bazali said:
Agreed up until the Moura comment but I assume you’re joking 🙃?
One of the worst VAR decisions I’ve seen but doesn’t excuse the performance

I’ve been debating the same points with Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 as the players have to take responsibility imv but when we don’t have a leader on the field and a Captain that doesn’t say anything it doesn’t help matters
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The one thing about playing in an empty stadium is it has categorically debunked the notion that Lloris doesn't say anything.
 
Airfixx said:
"People"? Who give a fuck about "people"..... Jose is a big boy.

We won the WH game easily, FFS.



This is all pretty moot though as I'm not holding up the WH game as the only way for us to play.

What I would add though is that if you're concerned about a more progressive team then putting a less defensively sound player at the base of your MF isn't the most practical of solutions.



Well, Jose wasn't "forced" to play Sissoko so again, that's kinda moot in terms of the basis of my disagreement with you.



Right... So:

XXX / XXX / XXX / XXX
GLC
Sissoko
Bergwin
Luca / Son
Kane​

....Is the best way to break do a stubborn parked bus is it?

...A fucked up 4/1/1/1/2/1 formation almost exclusively reliant upon crosses from Aurier? (Which totally played into their hands)

...No other approaches could be taken in terms of selection and formation?

:pocheyes:
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I think that listening to what fans, media and pundits have to say is a good way to judge things. I don't think you have to take it as gospel but if a large number of people agree on something then it certainly at least merits looking at the least.

Against WH we struggled to break them down and create chances. So trying something different isn't really that big of deal. I don't for a second think that Jose made a single change because of what people thought of that game but it wasn't like we had just put a master class on so changes to the line-up and approach were warranted.

Not sure what your made up formation has to do with anything as that is not how we lined up or played but I guess you think it looks cool.

Trying to get some speedy guys onto the field and create options was a way to try and created chances for a side that has struggled to create chances with any formation that it has tried. There is no tried and true effective formation for this Squad which is why we have fired a manager, went out early in CL and are struggling to finish top 10 right.

There is nothing to indicate other formations or selections would have created anything different than what we did yesterday.
 
Igula said:
I think that listening to what fans, media and pundits have to say is a good way to judge things. I don't think you have to take it as gospel but if a large number of people agree on something then it certainly at least merits looking at the least.
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Pretty meaningless chatter considering the point we're discussing... Which is whether or not Jose was "forced" to play the selection/formation he did.

What Dave on the internet said about the week before is neither here nor there.

Against WH we struggled to break them down and create chances. So trying something different isn't really that big of deal. I don't for a second think that Jose made a single change because of what people thought of that game but it wasn't like we had just put a master class on so changes to the line-up and approach were warranted.
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Again, not really substantive to the point that Jose was "forced" to play the hand he did, but hey ho.....

Not sure what your made up formation has to do with anything as that is not how we lined up or played but I guess you think it looks cool.
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I've made nothing up.... That's essentially how things played out (until the last push where we just threw bodies at them).

I've no care for looking cool.... (You're just engaging in childish deflection again. Another recurring trait of yours it seems).

Trying to get some speedy guys onto the field and create options was a way to try and created chances for a side that has struggled to create chances with any formation that it has tried. There is no tried and true effective formation for this Squad which is why we have fired a manager, went out early in CL and are struggling to finish top 10 right.

There is nothing to indicate other formations or selections would have created anything different than what we did yesterday.
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Right so despite all the blurrb, nothing to substantiate that Jose was "forced" to set up the way he did.

Just an example, but is Jose "forced" to never try a 433 formation?
 
Airfixx said:
Pretty meaningless chatter considering the point we're discussing... Which is whether or not Jose was "forced" to play the selection/formation he did.

What Dave on the internet said about the week before is neither here nor there.



Again, not really substantive to the point that Jose was "forced" to play the hand he did, but hey ho.....



I've made nothing up.... That's essentially how things played out (until the last push where we just threw bodies at them).

I've no care for looking cool.... (You're just engaging in childish deflection again. Another recurring trait of yours it seems).



Right so despite all the blurrb, nothing to substantiate that Jose was "forced" to set up the way he did.

Just an example, but is Jose "forced" to never try a 433 formation?
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It’s not meaningless if a large majority of people can see that something wasn’t working then it likely wasn’t working.

There is nothing childish or deflecting about pointing out you making stuff up, but your personal obsession with me as a poster is very clear in my short time here.

And yes with the options he had has didn’t have much option as for what he could do. That’s what happens when you have a limited squad with little skill.

He is not to but try a 4-3-3 he just doesn’t have the players to suit that formation.
 
Bouncer said:
LEVY is the problem
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If he's not interested, why doesn't he just sell the club, pocket his profits and let an owner who cares take over. And tbh, I'm at the point where I really don't care how a new owner makes his money. He's going to continue to do whatever it is that makes rich so why not reap the benefits? After all, no one is going to tell me that Levy and ENIC haven't ever been involved in something a little shady. You don't become that wealthy without exploiting someone.
 
woodyspur said:
jesus fucking christ that wasn't a hand ball.
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I guarantee Oliver went over that VAR film with a magnifying glass so he could find something....anything....that would "justify " ruling out the goal. If we have to suffer this awful new technology, I think it should be manned by refs from the champions league, not English though, so as to try to cut down on this terrible bias being shown towards and against certain teams. I see this as a workable solution to this problem.
 
Igula said:
It’s not meaningless if a large majority of people can see that something wasn’t working then it likely wasn’t working.
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.....It's a "large majority" now is it?

Don't tell me; did you get confused and forget what point you were debating again?

Let me remind you - your claim was: Jose was "forced" to play GLC as our deepest midfielder last night.

There is nothing childish or deflecting about pointing out you making stuff up, but your personal obsession with me as a poster is very clear in my short time here.
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Don't make hollow accusations. What did I make up? I shouldn't even have to ask....

And yes with the options he had has didn’t have much option as for what he could do. That’s what happens when you have a limited squad with little skill.

He is not to but try a 4-3-3 he just doesn’t have the players to suit that formation.
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That's rubbish... Particularly in the case of CAM.

You (not I) are taking this ALL over the shop rather than just admitting that Jose was NOT "forced" to play the system he did..... Be it to experiment or otherwise, he did it by choice.


If neither you, nor he, can conceive ANY other line-up despite the following options then you're both suffering from chronic tunnel vision:

CM:

GLC
Ndombele
Winks
Skipp
Sissoko
Gedson
Dier

CAM:
GLC
Ndombele
Dele
Lamela
 
TheRealTI said:
A 4-3-3 requires we have good fullbacks and ours are pretty shit.
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If the FBs remain conservative then that gives the 2 #8s even more license to attacking when we are in possession.... Maybe not an orthadox 433, but compelling never the less considering where the genuine talent in our squad lies:

i.e.
CF: Kane
Wide forwards: Lucas, Son & Stevie (Note not attacking midfielders or wingers).
#8: GLC, Ndombele and a decent second string player in Winks.... Sissoko & Gedson also more suited to that role.

It means taking a punt as to who plays DM (a punt no matter what formation we play tbf), but it's frustrating as fuck that in a season when we've keen constantly chopping and changing personel and formation throughout not once have we seen it tried.
 
The last few games it seems like our movements and passes in the final third have been incredibly slow. Excessively deliberate. It gives the other team time to react. It can’t be that Jose is asking them to be slow. Perhaps the lads aren’t accustomed to the tactics and are doing a little too much thinking?

As disappointed as I am in the defense, they were very good in the first two games. We were unlucky not to win both matches and not have two clean sheets. I would back them again next game to show them confidence.

The bigger issue I think is mentality when facing adversity. The disallowed goal was so unfair. The elbow on Son CLEARLY deserved a yellow. The lads had trouble overcoming those bad / missed calls. A mentally strong team isn’t phased.
 
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