Dele

[Doc]

Agree with a lot of that but I would take the Dele of 2016 back ahead of Son at the moment, and certainly ahead of Bergwijn

He was very special and that’s what people are clinging to.
I have had major issues with Dele for nearly four years now, but won’t deny what he did when he broke through and that was down to talent and attitude.
Said it years ago that the trouble maker was coached out of him, the attitude changed, we tried to mature him too early and lost the player.

I still think there's something to work with in Dele, but a lot of what was special about him is definitely diminished. Seems to be mostly athleticism and attitude, watching old games the difference in his strength and speed is pretty wild for a guy so young.

 

[Team Tanguy]

So you mean because Kane has 12 goals this season, if he blasts a sitter wide and we draw it’s Diers fault?

I meant that you'd have a point if Kane ended the season with only 12 goals.
You could point to key missed chances. But when Kane ends the season closer to 20-30 goals then it's unreasonable as you're demanding Messi levels.

 

[sammyspurs]

This needs to stop. It's not logical or reasonable. It's a remix of a gibbsy type train of thought. Replace tiny dancers with star players, and rugby giants with mythical perfect conversion players/Messi.

Take Kane and Son out of the equation if questioning them makes you feel all queasy.

Let’s look at the rest of the team.
Between the rest of the squad there have been 114 shots and 10 goals.

ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTEEN SHOTS AND TEN GOALS

It doesn’t matter who is shooting, my point still stands.
Our attack, is the problem and if we took more of our chances we would be fine because we have the second best goals concended in England.

 

[Team Tanguy]

Take Kane and Son out of the equation if questioning them makes you feel all queasy.

Let’s look at the rest of the team.
Between the rest of the squad there have been 114 shots and 10 goals.

ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTEEN SHOTS AND TEN GOALS

It doesn’t matter who is shooting, my point still stands.
Our attack, is the problem and if we took more of our chances we would be fine because we have the second best goals concended in England.

You've been watching football for decades Sammy. And you're really going to suggest that it's that simple?
Fewest goals conceded = good defence, attack is the problem?

I guess we should be careful our defence are not poached by Barca, Madrid and Bayern.
We can also cash in on our attack and buy players on par with our league leading defence.

I mean it's not like bus parking makes it easier for the defence and harder for the forwards (hence why the lesser team always uses it when playing for a draw). We will ignore all common sense?

 

[paddy spur]

That was only for people that judge his performances based on G/A output. It stands to reason that moving a player farther away from goal is going to drop those particular stats. And indeed it was often utilized by the apologists in support of Dele. But conversely it was never actually recognized or acknowledge that much of his production is, in fact, due to being the player farthest forward in our team. My point being if we put Toby up top with little responsibility his G/A stats would have been decent too...in those teams back then with the time and space created for you.

He's not a special player and never was.

What a patently absurd statement "hes not a special player and never was" please go and support some other team if you can't recognise the special talent that Dele is. Why do the crowd sing his name so lustly ? Awnser because the Tottenham crowd know a talented player when the see one. Honestly you don't deserve football.

 

[sammyspurs]

And you're really going to suggest that it's that simple?
Fewest goals conceded = good defence, attack is the problem?

Of course it’s that simple.
Just like having the second most goals conceded would indicate a problem with the defence

On the flip side you’re raving about the amount of goals Son and Kane score.
By your logic is it that simple to suggest it’s because the attack is good?

All of a sudden it’s that easy?

I guess we should be careful our defence are not poached by Barca, Madrid and Bayern.
We can also cash in on our attack and buy players on par with our league leading defence.

Its working collectively, it doesn’t mean that individually we have four defenders that could walk into Real Madrid.

Just like I didn’t see Barca trying to sign Leicester in 2017

I mean it's not like bus parking makes it easier for the defence and harder for the forwards (hence why the lesser team always uses it when playing for a draw). We will ignore all common sense?

I’m ignoring nothing.
You however are still ignoring Son missing four chances against Fulham as “not chances because he’s good”.....:

Hows that for logic

You say parking the bus makes it difficult to attack and score then keep pointing out our two forwards have the best numbers in Europe. How have they managed this when we don’t cross the halfway line?

 

[Team Tanguy]

Its working collectively, it doesn’t mean that individually we have four defenders that could walk into Real Madrid.

Just like I didn’t see Barca trying to sign Leicester in 2017



I’m ignoring nothing.
You however are still ignoring Son missing four chances against Fulham as “not chances because he’s good”.....:

Hows that for logic

You say parking the bus makes it difficult to attack and score then keep pointing out our two forwards have the best numbers in Europe. How have they managed this when we don’t cross the halfway line?

No Leicester didn't have their backline raided. Just Mahrez & Kante. With interest in Vardy.
Take a guess why?

It's because that's where the talent was!
Being part of a bus parking system makes it easier to defend. Do you get that?

You said it yourself it was a team effort. Hence why it's harder to attack when the whole team is in their own half.

OVER THE COURSE OF A SEASON Son gets good goal tallies and statistically outperforms xG better than anyone in Europe. We all know what Kane does over a season. They are still scoring despite the negative system because they're good. You're demanding MORE on top of that.

Are you now trying to imply we attack enough?! There's ample evidence we have zero patterns of play, most static cbs in the league. Poorest xG around etc. And of course the eye test.

You're obssessed with having our stars play with one hand tied behind their back for the sake of dead weight.

 

[sammyspurs]

No Leicester didn't have their backline raided. Just Mahrez & Kante. With interest in Vardy.
Take a guess why?

It's because that's where the talent was!
Being part of a bus parking system makes it easier to defend. Do you get that?

You said it yourself it was a team effort. Hence why it's harder to attack when the whole team is in their own half.

OVER THE COURSE OF A SEASON Son gets good goal tallies and statistically outperforms xG better than anyone in Europe. We all know what Kane does over a season. They are still scoring despite the negative system because they're good. You're demanding MORE on top of that.

Are you now trying to imply we attack enough?! There's ample evidence we have zero patterns of play, most static cbs in the league. Poorest xG around etc. And of course the eye test.

You're obssessed with having our stars play with one hand tied behind their back for the sake of dead weight.

One word answer so we can move on.
Do you think that 10 goals from 114 shots is ok?

I said forget Kane and Son. Who scores is irrelevant. The attack is the problem, collectively.

So, the rest of the squad scoring 10 of 114, is that ok?
Yes or no and we move on, because neither will change their mind.

Just want to know if you think the attack is doing a good job outside of Kane and Son.

 

[sammyspurs]

Pretty interesting that on February 14 2016 almost 4 years to the day, when many considered us at our peak under Poch, we had conceded 20 goals.

One less than today.

We had scored 47.
14 more than today.

 

[Team Tanguy]

One word answer so we can move on.
Do you think that 10 goals from 114 shots is ok?

I said forget Kane and Son. Who scores is irrelevant. The attack is the problem, collectively.

So, the rest of the squad scoring 10 of 114, is that ok?
Yes or no and we move on, because neither will change their mind.

Just want to know if you think the attack is doing a good job outside of Kane and Son.

114 shots from the corner flag?
114 shots from our own half?
114 headers whilst backpedalling outside the box?
114 half chances cos we create fuck all due to bus parking and having no attacking coaching?

Under the circumstances. YES.

Our problem isn't that we aren't clinical enough. It's that we don't create enough chances and sustain good pressure for long enough meaning we have to rely on being clinical to unrealistic standards. Our attackers should be able to miss more but still get more chances just like other top teams can.

Show me that over the course of a season Kane/Son get the same number and quality of chances as rivals and miss more then I'll happily concede. It is relevant as you use those 2 as examples of why we don't win more.

I want the proper rebuild both attack and defence. Kane, Son and Tanguy with quality around them just like what stars at other clubs have.

 

[sammyspurs]

114 shots from the corner flag?
114 shots from our own half?
114 headers whilst backpedalling outside the box?
114 half chances cos we create fuck all due to bus parking and having no attacking coaching?

Under the circumstances. YES.

Our problem isn't that we aren't clinical enough. It's that we don't create enough chances and sustain good pressure for long enough meaning we have to rely on being clinical to unrealistic standards. Our attackers should be able to miss more but still get more chances just like other top teams can.

Show me that over the course of a season Kane/Son get the same number and quality of chances as rivals and miss more then I'll happily concede. It is relevant as you use those 2 as examples of why we don't win more.

I want the proper rebuild both attack and defence. Kane, Son and Tanguy with quality around them just like what stars at other clubs have.

You’re still talking about Kane and Son.
Those 114 shots were the rest of the squad.

Are you suggesting that shit shots are an excuse for not scoring more and that means the defence is the problem?

We’ve had 220 odd shots all season, it’s weird that you don’t think just 10 more could have gone in

 

[Team Tanguy]

Pretty interesting that on February 14 2016 almost 4 years to the day, when many considered us at our peak under Poch, we had conceded 20 goals.

One less than today.

We had scored 47.
14 more than today.

We attacked and defended as a team under Poch.

Now we defend as a team (badly) and attack as Kane & Son ft Tanguy.

 

[sammyspurs]

We attacked and defended as a team under Poch.

Now we defend as a team (badly) and attack as Kane & Son ft Tanguy.

Second best goal against column and seventh best goals for column though.

The defence is doing a better job, but I guess that’s thanks to Son

 

[Team Tanguy]

You’re still talking about Kane and Son.
Those 114 shots were the rest of the squad.

Are you suggesting that shit shots are an excuse for not scoring more and that means the defence is the problem?

Why does Jose want a van Dijk if our defence is so good?
Couldn't possibly be so that he could switch to a system that benefits the team instead of everyone holding the defences hands could it?

 

[Team Tanguy]

Second best goal against column and seventh best goals for column though.

The defence is doing a better job, but I guess that’s thanks to Son

Probably. Son does all the running for them

Low block Tottenham, you hate to see it...................

Son is near the top for attackers btw

Believe a mic has been dropped

 

[sammyspurs]

Why does Jose want a van Dijk if our defence is so good?
Couldn't possibly be so that he could switch to a system that benefits the team instead of everyone holding the defences hands could it?

As I said our defenders individually aren’t top bracket just Huth and Morgan aren’t yet won the title.

 

[sammyspurs]

Probably. Son does all the running for them

Son is near the top for attackers btw

Believe a mic has been dropped

And Tottenham have the most headed clearances in the PL

Have you a graph for possession lost in the oppositions half?

 

[Team Tanguy]

And Tottenham have the most headed clearances in the PL

Have you a graph for possession lost in the oppositions half?

That's your response to proof that we have the most static defenders in the WHOLE premier league?
Poor Kane, Son and Tanguy are heavily outnumbered with the whole team camped in our own half, maybe they do lose it a lot in the opp half I don't know. They might do since it's EXHAUSTING running for the defence too.

You're being unreasonable Sammy.

 

[sammyspurs]

Believe a mic has been dropped

Wait. So our defence is doing a good job now?
Or is Son breaking ranks and defending when he’s not allowed to?
Is it the set up that has allowed this?

 

[sammyspurs]

That's your response to proof that we have the most static defenders in the WHOLE premier league?
Poor Kane, Son and Tanguy are heavily outnumbered with the whole team camped in our own half, maybe they do lose it a lot in the opp half I don't know.

You're being unreasonable Sammy.

You said Kane and Son have among the best numbers in Europe

Now you say they can’t attack due to the defenders.

Please explain how the set up has allowed them to flourish when the set up has stifled them?