Andre Villas-Boas Philosophy

[Colonel_K]

I didn't really know much about AVB other than he had led Porto to an unbeaten season and winner of the Europa League. When he joined Chavs he was hailed as the 'special one' mk 2 etc. Think he even came across in his interviews as being equally as arrogant and a bit flash. A manager that lot certainly would go after due to his previous feats. Fast forward 12 months and a failed attempt to implement his ideology, get players to back him, a media ready to ridicule at every opportunity and with some serious damage to his reputation.

Daniel Levy was able to pull off the masterstroke of convincing AVB to be our new manager. Some of our fans and media were not conviced about his appointment and were already gunning for him after a few uninspiring results. However once his ideas started to click into place we could all see what he was trying to do. I do feel after his time at Chelsea he was able to reflect on what went wrong and he came to us with a negative rep and he was prepared to change.

Now into his second season with us, first time he's done that anywhere and proper backing from the board and players we can all feel the optimism at our club. I for one am glad we have got a young progressive manager in charge.

 

[Blanchflower]

I'd vertically penetrate Andre

 

[Lister]

However once his ideas started to click into place we could all see what he was trying to do.

This was always the key for me. You can see the plan, or at least a feel for the plan - and can see how we are building toward it.

Last season wasnt spectacular at all, but we saw a team building toward a 433, toward being hard to beat, toward final 3rd possession... and while it wasnt especially exciting it actually bore fruit - in so much as a record points haul.

With the business and the start to this season we can see another step forward in "the plan". Thats what is encouraging, thats what we can believe in.

Funny thing is, "The plan" looks like it could be pretty dull when its complete, its death by a thousand cuts - possession - dont lose football for the most part. Doesnt scream "swashbuckling Spurs" at all. However, I am more than happy with that because I believe its what top teams are made of.


This was always the issue I had with Redknapp. I didnt see a plan of any description, it always seemed reactive and not proactive. It certainly made for some memorable games, and there is no denying under Redknapp we established a higher "base line" for the team - but I could never shake the feeling of "Is this it?" instead of "I can see where this is heading"

 

[Spanish Spur]

Funny thing is, "The plan" looks like it could be pretty dull when its complete, its death by a thousand cuts - possession - dont lose football for the most part. Doesnt scream "swashbuckling Spurs" at all. However, I am more than happy with that because I believe its what top teams are made of.

Spot on. I've said this before but Harry's swashbuckling spurs were more often than not terrifying rather than exciting to watch. The Milan, Young Boys and Real Madrid calamity performances would not happen to a top team and I like to think that they won't happen to us anymore.

 

[Lister]

The variance in performance with Redknapp was much wider, were sublime and we were ridiculous, often in the same game.

And because of the lasting memory of some amazing performances (undeniable) I think people forget that the majority of games with us were actually relatively poor. Good in possession, lacking ideas, often lacking a basic template/system and relying on individual brilliance because we lacked the ability to win by design.

With AVB the variance is much narrower. Im not sure we will ever perform as well as we did under Redknapp at our best, but equally I am pretty damn sure we will never be as bad...

 

[Eskimo]

Spot on. I've said this before but Harry's swashbuckling spurs were more often than not terrifying rather than exciting to watch. The Milan, Young Boys and Real Madrid calamity performances would not happen to a top team and I like to think that they won't happen to us anymore.

Absolute cobblers. We lost two of those "calamity performances" by a solitary goal and ultimately they didnt cost us. The Madrid game was ruined by an idiotic refereeing decision.


Now Barcelona against Bayern, that was calamitous. As was Real v Dortmund.

What about Everton away last season? Calamitous? Norwich away in the league cup? Calamitous?

Lets not try and rewrite history eh.

 

[VirginiaSpur]

The nice thing about this season thus far is that in each game we've seen a consistent performance. Against Woolwich of course things didn't work out, but so far we haven't seen that all too familiar pattern of last season in which we couldn't put two halves together to save our lives.

It was equal parts brilliant and pathetic over most of last season, when we'd boss one half and then capitulate in the other.

This is a good sign, I think, considering how much further our squad has to go in becoming comfortable with one another. Think we could really be in for some sexy football in a few weeks time.

Good in possession, lacking ideas, often lacking a basic template/system and relying on individual brilliance because we lacked the ability to win by design.

Pretty obvious that our system was more designed for quick-punch counter-attacks. We didn't embarrass ourselves in possession due to the extra class that Luka brought, for example, but as a squad we weren't quite there yet in offering depth across the field to really pressure top opposition. Rafa was the best on his day, but he was very streaky, so our performances in the final third were often inconsistent. Actually, impotent is the word I'd use.

But AVB is working those issues out, I think. The major issue is that we've got to become more accustomed to working the ball into the final third. We've got the squad now, and I don't think we're set up to be such a counter-attacking side anymore, but our boys just need that extra bit of telepathy in knowing implicitly what each other are going to do, so that we can truly break teams down.

Bale's long range shooting last season meant that we had a trump card at times, but that's gone. We've got all the cards now, we've just got to learn how to read them and put them together.

 

[Colonel_K]

There were times when under Redknapp when we played some amazing football but up against some really decent sides would get destroyed by being so open. We also had the likes of Modric and VDV pulling those strings and full flight Bale and Lennon on the flanks which made for some pretty stuff when it worked. Then there were the times when we came up against the supposed lesser teams who would park the bus and we'd fail to break them down only for them to nick in and score to beat us.

At least under AVB we all know what main aim of the game is. Defensive wall, press high and quick vertical play. Think we lacked that normal vertical play last year as we didn't have that creative subtlety and relied on Bale to pick the ball up deep and drive towards goal to unleash a thunderbastard!

 

[Lister]

Under Redknapp at first counter attacking was perfect. After a season or so we established ourselves as a top side and it was no longer really an option.

As AVB found last season, it was imperative we found a way to break down stubborn teams sitting deep.

Redknapp had no solution to this except VDV/Bale pulling something out of the bag.

Funnily enough this is a very similar story last season with AVB, except last season it seemed to me we were working on something and it just wasnt working/was missing an element - as opposed to just having a go and it just wasnt working.

This season there has been a definite shift forward in tactics, or at least how they are played out, we are getting more and more players in the box and there is a versatility to our attack. It hasnt come together yet, but IMO its all clearly part of a plan...

And thats the bit that gives me more faith in AVB than I had in Redknapp.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

 

[Erik_Edman]

This was always the key for me. You can see the plan, or at least a feel for the plan - and can see how we are building toward it.

Last season wasnt spectacular at all, but we saw a team building toward a 433, toward being hard to beat, toward final 3rd possession... and while it wasnt especially exciting it actually bore fruit - in so much as a record points haul.

With the business and the start to this season we can see another step forward in "the plan". Thats what is encouraging, thats what we can believe in.

Funny thing is, "The plan" looks like it could be pretty dull when its complete, its death by a thousand cuts - possession - dont lose football for the most part. Doesnt scream "swashbuckling Spurs" at all. However, I am more than happy with that because I believe its what top teams are made of.


This was always the issue I had with Redknapp. I didnt see a plan of any description, it always seemed reactive and not proactive. It certainly made for some memorable games, and there is no denying under Redknapp we established a higher "base line" for the team - but I could never shake the feeling of "Is this it?" instead of "I can see where this is heading"

As I often say around these parts- I hear the 'grand plan' argument a lot, but I've yet to see how it's going to manifest itself on the pitch. I understand that AVB likes dominating other teams through a high press and physicality in midfield- in theory, it should allow us to get a better balance between scoring and conceding, so even if we're not creating lots of chances and outgunning our opponents we should still edge out every game and take home the points.

Fine. Not exactly the Spurs I know and love, but I can live with it.

But the question I have to ask is: how much progress is really being made towards achieving this vision when we're losing 3-0 at home to West Ham? When we're relying on penalties to beat Palace and Swansea? When we're blowing leading positions to Chelsea because of a hesitance to tweak the system and make subs? When we're losing to the shit down the road because the high line we predicate our tactics on fails and allows Giroud to bag a free goal? When our record signing striker hasn't had the service to score from open play yet? 15 months into the AVB era, with £100m spent on the squad, surely we should be hoping for more than this from the 'grand plan'?

These may not be crippling factors individually, but add them all up, and collectively they suggest that AVB's tactical template isn't working very well. You can keep saying it's all part of the plan- maybe it's just something personal to me, but I don't have the patience to keep tolerating this very inconsistent football and believing that something better is going to come. I really think at this point that this is all there is.

You say Harry had no overarching ideas for what he wanted to do with the side long-term; and, ok, maybe to an extent that true. But I see no greater merit in having a very rigid philosophy that doesn't exactly work faultlessly in practice, and then not having either the will or the nous to tweak it when we really, really need to.

Like everything with AVB, it's great on paper, but on the pitch I just don't see how it's panning out in a way that can please anyone. Hit me with the same old 'record points total' counterargument if you like; but I'm adamant that, if you boil it down to the team chemistry, the flow of the games we've competed in thusfar- in other words if you just watch our squad play- it's pretty plain to see that AVB's plan has not built a cohesive, convincing side yet.

tl;dr- you say there's a plan, I say -where's the proof that it's going to come together? It's not on the pitch. How long do I have to keep waiting for this eternal promise to come true?

 

[jimmyriggle]

You make some good points there.
However I wish people would stop saying we 'relied' on penalties to beat palace and Swansea.
We dominated both games and had plenty of chances to score. It's the manager's job to set the team up to help them create lots of chances. You can't blame him for profligate finishing, which is what we've suffered from a bit so far. Or look at the Cardiff game. That could easily have ended 5-0 to us were it not for their keeper deciding he was the reincarnation of Dino zoff.

What we also relied on in those close games was a tactically tight defence and midfield that prevented the other team scoring which in turn allows us to only 'need' one goal to win.
Again, this is down to the manager's game plan in my opinion

He's not infallible, but if we're going to criticise we need to also give him credit when it's due.

 

[Erik_Edman]

You make some good points there.
However I wish people would stop saying we 'relied' on penalties to beat palace and Swansea.
We dominated both games and had plenty of chances to score. It's the manager's job to set the team up to help them create lots of chances. You can't blame him for profligate finishing, which is what we've suffered from a bit so far. Or look at the Cardiff game. That could easily have ended 5-0 to us were it not for their keeper deciding he was the reincarnation of Dino zoff.

What we also relied on in those close games was a tactically tight defence and midfield that prevented the other team scoring which in turn allows us to only 'need' one goal to win.
Again, this is down to the manager's game plan in my opinion

He's not infallible, but if we're going to criticise we need to also give him credit when it's due.

Oh yes, I won't deny we at least looked very tight and compact in midfield and defence, if not threatening elsewhere, at the start of the season. Which is why it's worrying to me that, more recently, we caved (and probably should have lost) to Chelsea and got absolutely mauled by West Ham with the same full-strength lineups. Still early doors yet but that doesn't suggest consistency to me, especially since the theme of AVB's tenure so far has been 'things will come together as we go along'.

 

[jimmyriggle]

West ham was a freak result in my opinion. We got sucker punched completely. His selection and subs were a tad questionable but these are all players we should be confident in securing a result against a team like that. I was watching thedugout Right before their second goal we were about to sub Defoe for soldado. Then we had to take off someone else and play two up front. I think we even ended up with 3 defenders on the pitch in the end as we tried to get something from the game. That doesn't look like someone being too rigid to me.

 

[Erik_Edman]

West ham was a freak result in my opinion. We got sucker punched completely. His selection and subs were a tad questionable but these are all players we should be confident in securing a result against a team like that. I was watching thedugout Right before their second goal we were about to sub Defoe for soldado. Then we had to take off someone else and play two up front. I think we even ended up with 3 defenders on the pitch in the end as we tried to get something from the game. That doesn't look like someone being too rigid to me.

Maybe not dead rigid, but when we're a couple of goals down to West Ham, we make changes and they bag yet another, it just suggests that AVB doesn't know how to switch things round properly. He doesn't like changing up his system, evidently, so when he does the changes are rarely organic or effective.

Let's see how we respond against Villa, I s'pose.

 

[Lister]

tl;dr- you say there's a plan, I say -where's the proof that it's going to come together? It's not on the pitch. How long do I have to keep waiting for this eternal promise to come true?

Quite clearly we still lack cohesion. IMO thats the missing ingredient. When the penny drops and players know what to expect from their team mates and where the tactical game comes more instinctively I think everything will come together.

Will that happen? Who knows? And as you say there will come a point where it needs to be delivered or serious questions will be asked about the whole thing. At the moment I recognise we have rebuilt the front line of the team and they have had only a few months/7 league games to play together so (at this point) I am not getting worked up about it. Im not sure how long it should take for them to gel but right now it doesnt seem unreasonable to me that they havent.

As you mention it I think the record points haul suggests there is a system that wins games - it suggests consistency.

I think this season despite the lack of goals/reliance on penalties there has been a dramatic increase in our possession, territorial advantage and shots/shot on target which suggests things are coming together a bit more compared to last season.

I do think there is evidence of progress. The fabled high line is working. The players are all looking good on the ball, we are dominating, teams are basically shitting themselves against us. Once the goals start dropping in I think we will be formidable.

There is no denying it isnt 100% yet though, and Im sorry to say i dont have an answer as to if/when it will.

 

[Lister]

Maybe not dead rigid, but when we're a couple of goals down to West Ham, we make changes and they bag yet another, it just suggests that AVB doesn't know how to switch things round properly. He doesn't like changing up his system, evidently, so when he does the changes are rarely organic or effective.

Let's see how we respond against Villa, I s'pose.

I dont know about not wanting to change things up too much, he seems happy to expect players to contribute in various positions - but I do think his subs are pretty ineffective most of the time.

 

[Kalyl]

Maybe not dead rigid, but when we're a couple of goals down to West Ham, we make changes and they bag yet another, it just suggests that AVB doesn't know how to switch things round properly. He doesn't like changing up his system, evidently, so when he does the changes are rarely organic or effective.

Let's see how we respond against Villa, I s'pose.

Sorry but, no! Losing another goal after making attacking subs suggest being too GUNG-HO about fighting your way back into the match and sacrificing defensive strength for attacking potential.

 

[YidoBuckler]

We're still more suited to playing away from home I think where teams give us more space as they try to show some kind of intent.

Obviously this needs to be looked at as teams will park the bus at the Lane still but I think we now have some players who are good enough to break down these teams.

 

[Eskimo]

Under Redknapp at first counter attacking was perfect. After a season or so we established ourselves as a top side and it was no longer really an option.

As AVB found last season, it was imperative we found a way to break down stubborn teams sitting deep.

Redknapp had no solution to this except VDV/Bale pulling something out of the bag.

Funnily enough this is a very similar story last season with AVB, except last season it seemed to me we were working on something and it just wasnt working/was missing an element - as opposed to just having a go and it just wasnt working.

This season there has been a definite shift forward in tactics, or at least how they are played out, we are getting more and more players in the box and there is a versatility to our attack. It hasnt come together yet, but IMO its all clearly part of a plan...

And thats the bit that gives me more faith in AVB than I had in Redknapp.

Sorry but that is absolute cobblers.